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  1. #1881
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    So you have the pro slaughter side, telling us for years that the people involved in the slaughter industry, care about horse welfare, and most are honest, law abiding people just trying to make a living, and that those that sell to slaughter, are decent people that may be breeders that need to sell to keep their business tax status or accountants happy, or individuals that care about their horses and don't find slaughter cruel. The horses they are getting rid of are young and healthy, not starved.

    We also know the killer buyers are not buying neglected, 3 legged, blind, old or emaciated horses. So those horses that are already endangered/or are in danger of starving are not currently being "saved" from further neglect by being bought for slaughter.

    But now we are being told that "oh no...the people that sell to slaughter are willing to starve, neglect or abandon the horses and are willing to break laws, and are going to do so since they can't sell to slaughter"

    Which is it?
    No, not at all, that is what YOU are saying.

    Remember, there is more involved in this that JUST those people you so malign there and try to use your opinion of them as an excuse to ban slaughter.

    There are many unwanted horses and if the animal rights extremist driven ban slaughter goes thru, those horses now sold for slaughter will be ADDED to those unwanted ones, not necessarily starved and abandoned, but playing musical chairs with who then is going to be the unwanted ones when there are so many more out there.

    Of course, that is what animal rights extremists want, to keep disturbing and dismantling any and all we do with horses, any one way they can, ban slaughter just one more way to do so.



  2. #1882
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    And...

    I think we are conflating "used up" horses as unwanted vs. "formerly wanted by the KB but potentially will no longer be".

    If slaughter is somehow made illegal completely, both sets of horses will make up "the unwanted".



  3. #1883
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    I think it's the overall volume that the contract buyers make their money on. Is it Charlie Curtis in Colorado that has a strong of buyers fanning out all over to bring horses to his feedlot? From there they ship to wherever he can get the best price. If you buy truckloads of horses dirt cheap, gather them up and ship them regularly, you are going to make a pretty good living even after expenses.
    Sounds so. I doubt they are making many stops here from the east coast, as I don't even know of any cattle feedlots near here, so that may be a regional difference. One slightly more profitable than the other, but both profitable.

    The percentages (17% for TB and the rest QH types is also interesting. We don't see that at our auctions here...so is that regional? Or is that an overall number (if that makes any sense)?



  4. #1884
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    Sounds so. I doubt they are making many stops here from the east coast, as I don't even know of any cattle feedlots near here, so that may be a regional difference. One slightly more profitable than the other, but both profitable.

    The percentages (17% for TB and the rest QH types is also interesting. We don't see that at our auctions here...so is that regional? Or is that an overall number (if that makes any sense)?
    No way, cattle feedlots have been losing money for at least the past three years, many have closed, this last week losses were at $200+ a head.

    The horse breeds, without registration papers on hand, are a pure guess, of course.



  5. #1885
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    No way, cattle feedlots have been losing money for at least the past three years, many have closed, this last week losses were at $200+ a head.
    Sorry Bluey - I was actually talking about horse feedlots and "straight to slaughter" dealers.

    I just mentioned cattle because I've never seen a horse feedlot much less a cattle feedlot here in the east.



  6. #1886
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    I think it's the overall volume that the contract buyers make their money on. Is it Charlie Curtis in Colorado that has a strong of buyers fanning out all over to bring horses to his feedlot? From there they ship to wherever he can get the best price. If you buy truckloads of horses dirt cheap, gather them up and ship them regularly, you are going to make a pretty good living even after expenses.

    Remember, it's the guys with the contracts that are are making the money in the business.

    I believe that you can call and find out what their walk-in price is, but remember that the contract guys get more per head.

    As far as percentages, I believe that TBs make up about 17% of the total number of horses slaughtered. QHs and QH types make up the majority.
    Charlie Carter.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/



  7. #1887
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    Sounds so. I doubt they are making many stops here from the east coast, as I don't even know of any cattle feedlots near here, so that may be a regional difference. One slightly more profitable than the other, but both profitable.

    The percentages (17% for TB and the rest QH types is also interesting. We don't see that at our auctions here...so is that regional? Or is that an overall number (if that makes any sense)?
    Kaufmanzoning has documents that detail what each load consisted of [breed] per the shipper documents.
    There are shipping documents for Brian Moore available online that details each load for the entire year of 2010, again each horse put down as ___ breed by the shipper.

    Those are two sources of the best available information on the breakdown of breeds slaughtered off the top of my head.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/


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  8. #1888
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    Sorry Bluey - I was actually talking about horse feedlots and "straight to slaughter" dealers.

    I just mentioned cattle because I've never seen a horse feedlot much less a cattle feedlot here in the east.
    Sorry, losses last week were "only" -$133:

    http://www.cattlenetwork.com/e-newsl...210874671.html

    There are no such figures for horse feedlots.


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  9. #1889
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    Just to clarify, I said that QH and QH types made up the majority, but definitely not the rest of the 83%, which can include other types of horses.

    BTW, aren't there some feed lot type places in Kentucky where horses are kept for a while? Doesn't Nickerson have a holding area somewhere close to NH? From Joe at TB Friends, it seems like a lot of the dealers out his way hold horses for a while until they get up a big enough load to go to Texas.
    Last edited by betonbill; Jun. 11, 2013 at 09:38 PM. Reason: adding on


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  10. #1890
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Kaufmanzoning has documents that detail what each load consisted of [breed] per the shipper documents.
    There are shipping documents for Brian Moore available online that details each load for the entire year of 2010, again each horse put down as ___ breed by the shipper.

    Those are two sources of the best available information on the breakdown of breeds slaughtered off the top of my head.
    Right, but it is a guess, no one really knows and as we know, what breed any one horse may be just standing there is not something you can take to the bank.

    You ought to see what breeds our animal shelter lady puts dogs under.
    Those list of horse breeds you have there are about as laughable.



  11. #1891
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    So Mature, and so indicative of a willingness to debate an issue...not.
    "I don't like what you're saying, so shut up/leave".

    And you were complaining earlier of people acting like 7th graders?????? Pot meet kettle.
    No that was me yesterday!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  12. #1892
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    BTW, aren't there some feed lot type places in Kentucky where horses are kept for a while? Doesn't Nickerson have a holding area somewhere close to NH?
    I've only ever been to his plant that deals with downed cows (long story)...so I've never heard of it, but that doesn't mean anything.



  13. #1893
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    Would people be so against the idea of horsemeat they made life miserable for anyone trying to sell it??

    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    I know that they used to sell horsemeat domestically, but in 40 years FDA and USDA standards have evolved.

    The big plants didn't have any problem because all of their meat went overseas.

    Would anyone, big plant, little plant, even be allowed to open a retail market for horsemeat these days? Would this require a whole set of new drug standards be formulated in order to do so?



  14. #1894
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    if you want to change an existing behavior pattern, you have limit yourself to recognizing the behavior and who is doing it.
    And why they do the behavior.
    And what ideal behavior would be as an alternate.
    Then, if there is a way that changing that behavior could possibly be valuable to the mindset of the ones whose behavior you wish to change in some way. Not valuable to you, to THEM.

    If there are 20 behaviors, one solution will never address all the behaviors; I assume this is why the BAN solution comes up.


    ++
    The classic example was how Texas reduced littering on their highways (catching and prosecuting litterbugs would have been a hopeless undertaking both financially and man-powerwise, and might even have increased the littering as people 'rose to the challenge' of confronting authority...)
    The profile of the typical litterer was a young adult, pickup driving, beer drinking and TV watching male, who would rebel against restraint and authority (fines and tickets would not deter), was not motivated by pleas for the environment, pollution or beautifying the landscape.

    What did motivate him was pride in being a Texan, specifically a vigorous male Texan.

    How did they motivate him?
    A series of commercials starring iconic male Texan role models: Dallas Cowboys defensive players, Rock Stars from Texas bands, Boxers born in Texas, and other clearly physically macho male Texans, Each spot expressing disgust with slobs and picking up litter, making not-so-subtle threats about what they'd do to the litterbug if they met him (crushing beer can with their handwhile saying they'd have to show him personally!) With the final line of "Don't mess with Texas...!"

    It became UN-Texan for young men to litter. Their own idols were making that clear to them.
    If they had pride in their State, their masculinity, then littering was contrary to their self image.

    Litterers weren't 'real' Texans.
    And 'real' Texans didn't let their friends litter, either.

    Littering dropped significantly, then really fell off. This saved hundreds of thousands of dollars in state funds that would have been earmarked for a follow-up enforcement blitz that now wasn't needed.


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  15. #1895
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    Are the KB's buying the weanlings???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    But How Angela, They don't buy them now. I have a friend who goes to a local auction and the bigger ones here in Michigan,
    She comes home and says half the really nice ones end of going for 80.00 or less and the rest the Killers pick up. She said QH weanlings were going for 40 dollars last summer. No lie.



  16. #1896
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    if you want to change an existing behavior pattern, you have limit yourself to recognizing the behavior and who is doing it.
    And why they do the behavior.
    And what ideal behavior would be as an alternate.
    Then, if there is a way that changing that behavior could possibly be valuable to the mindset of the ones whose behavior you wish to change in some way. Not valuable to you, to THEM.
    Yes, however, with your littering example there was no financial incentive for them to keep littering.

    That does add an extra dimension.


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  17. #1897
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    Jets mom is not saying there is a (new) home for every horse. She's saying every horse has a home. It's what the owners choose to do that makes a difference. Make slaughter unprofitable and I think the market will adjust in time to reflect the loss of that venue. Hold the cruel and neglectful responsible legally for their actions, they won't be in the pool of horse breeders and sellers. Hold euthanasia clinics or some other venue that assists people who need help with costs. Cheaper than trying to rescue all those horses for whom " the truck is coming"


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  18. #1898
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Didn't you know? NSA, CIA and Homeland Security have Fairfax in the loop with all the surveillance...video, voice, digital.
    Keep laughing and making jokes!
    He is a Canadian, not worried, You.. Even if you voted for this bunch.
    LOL!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  19. #1899
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    Are the KB's buying the weanlings???
    I think at that particular auction, it was a year ago, many of them were no sales.
    Because it was an estate.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  20. #1900
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    There's a couple KB's that go up and down the west coast. Juarez, Mexico is a straight shot but what about up north?? Not sure there's a SH in BC.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    I suppose it could be "reimbursed".

    I'm still though, concerned about d_bald's questions. I'm looking for numbers on how many horses per truck, but can't seem to find any other than the accidents, which have ~40 horses per truck.

    So that's 40 x $500 = $20,000 per truck.

    Fuel costs...um...okay, I've found fuel costs plus maintenance costs to be 1.40 per mile (standard tractor trailer...can't imagine it's much different than that).

    What's the average distance to a plant from an auction? I'd imagine that they go from specific auctions to specific plants (based on proximity) no?



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