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  1. #1581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Sannois I just looked at your links and the first one is actually very good... and there are several links available there, incl a link to how to dress a cow after you bolt and then bleed them out.

    You need to use the stunner vs the bolt that kills them in the slaughter plants because their heart needs to be beating to pump out the blood.

    And someone [up thread] mentioned the amount of blood, I've found data that horses have about 50% more blood than cows.
    Darn.. I was not thinking about that. So all animals have to be just stunned in order be bled?
    Not chickens though ?
    I wonder how come I missed the rest of those links.. I will have to go read that.
    BUT, As far as doing it on a private basis, I> would think it is better than the Phenabarb. ?? Just brain storming.
    Plus, Done right, The horse will be gone immediately >I have never experienced it personally but you hear of the ones that got the juice that do not go quietly. Agh..
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  2. #1582
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I have never heard of a vet here in the US that uses that either. They usually don't even ask if you prefer something other than the pink juice.
    Me neither, I wonder, Hmmm something else to do research on.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  3. #1583
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    A while ago I did some body work on a 20 y.o. reining quarter horse. He had some "older" blood lines and all things considered, for his age he was in really good shape and still doing sorting with his young owner.
    It was surprising because so often in other disciplines I find hips out - ribs out- poor saddle fit -.................the list goes on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Cutting, reining, team roping, barrel racing and lately team penning/sorting and ranch rodeos, all that is really taking off and in lesser numbers, cowboy mounted shooting.

    That takes many horses.

    Those running the different associations in those western activities tell me their competitions tend to be full.

    It is not unheard of for barrel racers or ropers to have 5-600 entries and have to compete thru several days.
    They have competitions all the time, in many different places, to chose from.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #1584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    These debates for some are not about finding any solutions, but the mere act of divide and conquer.
    But Bluey, What if maybe , just maybe the people on here for the most part are trying. Isn't it worth it to be civil, ALL of us and chat?
    It seems for the last several pages we are doing a lot of good thinking and making sense. Just worth a try no?
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #1585
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    A while ago I did some body work on a 20 y.o. reining quarter horse. He had some "older" blood lines and all things considered, for his age he was in really good shape and still doing sorting with his young owner.
    It was surprising because so often in other disciplines I find hips out - ribs out- poor saddle fit -.................the list goes on.
    JG Are you a Chiro??
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  6. #1586
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Darn.. I was not thinking about that. So all animals have to be just stunned in order be bled?
    .
    I always wondered why they haven't invented some type of vacuum system to suck the blood out instead of having them bled. It seems it would be much cleaner as well as make it easier to do a clean kill rather than a stun.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


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  7. #1587
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    A lot of that is crappy "training," too. I personally think the advent of everyone and their sister trying to do what they think is "dressage," or cranking a horse into a false frame and then ramming their seat into it and waterskiing on the reins, is where an awful lot of this is coming from, too.

    Back when we rode on light contact in a more hunter way of going, a lot of these injuries never even came up.

    A lot of it also is excessive cranking in circles as the arenas have gotten smaller and the turns therefore tighter. Also the "dressage" aforesaid, lack of land for proper turnout, many people afraid to hack outside the ring today if they even have that opportunity, and FAR more jumping efforts in the name of "practice" and "lessoning" than were seen in the past.

    Oops, board glitched! This is my response to 1583 above.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #1588
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    I always wondered why they haven't invented some type of vacuum system to suck the blood out instead of having them bled. It seems it would be much cleaner as well as make it easier to do a clean kill rather than a stun.
    Would sure make more sense, >I mean in Hospitals I know it is not the same volume, but they have Suction vacs, but they are not sucking it out of the person, just what bleeds during surgeries.
    But There are so many things I would think would be possible, And not just dumped in some pond..?? Well you know what I mean, "Lagoon."
    We need a Bleck Smiley.. Lol
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  9. #1589
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    I know this may be a few pages late. I have only had one horse chemically euthed. She was dying it was uneventful. My Dad had a horrible nightmare, so did a close friend.

    Since that first horse I have had every other one shot and buried here. One 7 month weanling that had broken a leg was dragged out into the woods for the critters. There are shooters around especially if you live in an agricultural area.

    This place was a puppy mill and a chop shop when I bought it. I spent a ton of sweat equity and money getting rid of all the hazardous waste left here by the previous people. It took years to clean it all up. I still find dog skeletons. Got rid of over 200 gallons of spent oil, all sorts of junk blah blah blah. I even bleached the ground in the front yard and around the barn. Horrible. Those pictures of puppy mills don't hold a candle to what I saw here. In person you get the smells, the sounds, blech it was horrible, those who knew me and saw the place I gave up for this thought I had gone stark raving mad. The land. It was all about the land. Beautiful piece of heaven now. I digress.

    My point was I am VERY eco friendly. It is absolutely part of my lifestyle. I don't do everything right but I try my best to leave a small footprint. Including how I euth my horses, and what we eat.

    I organic garden, my husband hunts, we both fish. We both hunter/gather. And we don't hoard and wipe out the sweet spots but leave specimens for the next year. Momma always told me, "Never take it all, there will nothing left for the future."

    We could survive quite easily without mainstream grocery. I am the ultimate fixer. I have fixed more things than I've thrown away. I like using things until there is no hope or the repair is beyond my reach.


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  10. #1590
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    I know this may be a few pages late. I have only had one horse chemically euthed. She was dying it was uneventful. My Dad had a horrible nightmare, so did a close friend.

    Since that first horse I have had every other one shot and buried here. One 7 month weanling that had broken a leg was dragged out into the woods for the critters. There are shooters around especially if you live in an agricultural area.

    This place was a puppy mill and a chop shop when I bought it. I spent a ton of sweat equity and money getting rid of all the hazardous waste left here by the previous people. It took years to clean it all up. I still find dog skeletons. Got rid of over 200 gallons of spent oil, all sorts of junk blah blah blah. I even bleached the ground in the front yard and around the barn. Horrible. Those pictures of puppy mills don't hold a candle to what I saw here. In person you get the smells, the sounds, blech it was horrible, those who knew me and saw the place I gave up for this thought I had gone stark raving mad. The land. It was all about the land. Beautiful piece of heaven now. I digress.

    My point was I am VERY eco friendly. It is absolutely part of my lifestyle. I don't do everything right but I try my best to leave a small footprint. Including how I euth my horses, and what we eat.

    I organic garden, my husband hunts, we both fish. We both hunter/gather. And we don't hoard and wipe out the sweet spots but leave specimens for the next year. Momma always told me, "Never take it all, there will nothing left for the future."

    We could survive quite easily without mainstream grocery. I am the ultimate fixer. I have fixed more things than I've thrown away. I like using things until there is no hope or the repair is beyond my reach.
    Horray! Another one who does it right,
    Hope you got a great deal on the place. Must have been some job!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  11. #1591
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    Back on target, tell me: What do you THINK is going to happen in the next 5 years? Not what you'd like to see happen, what WILL happen.



  12. #1592
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    http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/HUMANE%20...0SLAUGHTER.pdf
    This is one of the linked links from Sannois post
    I found the second paragraph interesting:

    Do not run or excite the animal prior to slaughter because this may cause poor bleeding and give the carcass a bloody appearance.

    Interesting considering some of the excited looking horses we've seen in videos from the plants.


    Be careful not to stick too deep into the chest cavity.
    Cut straight with the backbone. Pump the foreleg back and
    forth a few times to help bleeding.



    Pumping the legs to 'help bleeding'?

    It's interesting that this how-to does not say how long bleed out will/should take or how to know it's done bleeding out.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #1593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Darn.. I was not thinking about that. So all animals have to be just stunned in order be bled?
    Not chickens though ?
    I wonder how come I missed the rest of those links.. I will have to go read that.
    BUT, As far as doing it on a private basis, I> would think it is better than the Phenabarb. ?? Just brain storming.
    Plus, Done right, The horse will be gone immediately >I have never experienced it personally but you hear of the ones that got the juice that do not go quietly. Agh..
    I just read somewhere (one of the links posted over the week-end?) that it's not the heart pumping that bleeds them out but gravity because they are shackled up immediately. The stunning is to enable them to be shackled.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #1594
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    No - accupressure and a few other tricks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    JG Are you a Chiro??



  15. #1595
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    Normally wikipedia is not a source I use, but there are footnotes to actual good sources on some of the points, so maybe worth a look:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_slaughter

    Particularly this about the carbon footprint of horsemeat:

    The slaughterhouses exported approximately 42 million dollars' worth of horse meat per year, with the majority of that money going to the foreign-owned exporters overseas. Horsemeat is one of the most carbon-intensive meat products, since horses have a very poor feed to pound conversion ratio, so it takes much more time and feed input to get to an acceptable weight for slaughter. Then horses are trucked to auctions all over North America before going to a handful of North American slaughter plants. Following processing, carcasses are then airlifted to Europe and Asia, and Asia also imports live horses as well.

    This is interesting, are they saying that the EU was slaughtering 100,000 of their own horses, so about what we ship to Canada for the same?

    The Daily Mail reported in 2007 that 100,000 horses were then being transported annually into and around the European Union, for human consumption in France and Belgium, where horse meat is accepted.[64]

    [If you go down to the references, you can click a link to read that articles for most of them.]
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/



  16. #1596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Back on target, tell me: What do you THINK is going to happen in the next 5 years? Not what you'd like to see happen, what WILL happen.
    Honestly, given the twinning of our government with corporate interest and the super rich, I don't think the middle class will be able to afford horses. Maybe not in 5 years but 10-20.



  17. #1597
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    If that's true, then why do they not just make sure they are dead?? I have been under the presumption that they only wanted them stunned and then hang them up to bleed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    I just read somewhere (one of the links posted over the week-end?) that it's not the heart pumping that bleeds them out but gravity because they are shackled up immediately. The stunning is to enable them to be shackled.



  18. #1598
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    Lady E, I just read an article that mentioned that the US banning and subsequent recession actually had a negative impact on Canada's meat horse operations because the Americans were just giving them away.

    That doesn't, however, solve the issue of what to do with the horses from the US. 100k horses, which does *not* count the 69,000 in the BLM holding pens, is a lot of horses. I know it doesn't seem that way per capita, but do you know of anyone who isn't full up at the inn?

    And that still doesn't solve the breeding of fuglies issue, the dumping of the used up, nor the reduction in land issue.



  19. #1599
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    Lady E, I just read an article that mentioned that the US banning and subsequent recession actually had a negative impact on Canada's meat horse operations because the Americans were just giving them away.

    That doesn't, however, solve the issue of what to do with the horses from the US. 100k horses, which does *not* count the 69,000 in the BLM holding pens, is a lot of horses. I know it doesn't seem that way per capita, but do you know of anyone who isn't full up at the inn?

    And that still doesn't solve the breeding of fuglies issue, the dumping of the used up, nor the reduction in land issue.
    Actually, I know a great many people who can't seem to find an affordable, user-friendly, adult-ammie pleasure type horse ANYWHERE. One that's safe alone or in company, in the ring or on the trails, doesn't need drugs or supplements, or a $4,500 custom saddle to be useful for ordinary, low-level, recreation.

    THAT is where the market lies. And we are not providing "product."

    Also, many stats have been cited up-thread about how much breeding has declined by numbers since the start of the Great Recession. I think we're seeing the last of the "bubble" now with respect to the "unwanted" population, after which prices will rise, horses more difficult to afford, i.e. they actually cost something, and the highly desirable ones will bring better prices than ever.

    The market is without a functional "floor" now--they are running them through the auctions for $10 and $20 some places, KB or none.



  20. #1600
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    If that's true, then why do they not just make sure they are dead?? I have been under the presumption that they only wanted them stunned and then hang them up to bleed out.
    I agree, I was surprised by that info. I've always thought that the heart helps move the blood. This was a site on hogs. They also stated that both carotids and jugular had to be cut. I worked on the kill floor of a hog slaughter house. My curiosity took me to down to the stun/stick part of the plant. The sticker showed me how to do it. It was one stick. Not three or four. They cut one carotid, and bled out before they hit the next level. The blood was squeegeed into a drain for rendering or whatever they did with it.



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