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  1. #21
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    Aug. 5, 2009
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    PM sent



  2. #22
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    Jun. 1, 2002
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    Indiana
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    Well the cop is going to say (and yes I've seen this many times over all kinds of things, cars, horses, etc.) that it's a civil case. Cop is not going to help OP get her horse if the guy says she owes money. Cop will help if she pays whatever ransom the BO wants. The principle is that if OP wants her horse, she will have to go to court to prove it's her horse, and that she doesn't owe any money. And what happens to the horse in the interim?

    We used to say in Atlanta that 50% of our criminal cases started out as civil cases because the cops weren't allowed to intervene if money was at issue.

    Locally I have not found this to be true. If you have proof that the horse legally belongs to you then the police officer will let you take your horse and tell the barn owner to file in court. They are only concerned about current ownership and not a broken or not broken contract.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Jun. 12, 2007
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    CT
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    The laws about these things vary drastically from state to state. Go down to the local police precinct (with your truck and trailer). Bring proof of ownership of your horse and proof of payment. Be calm and civil. Ask that they accompany you to retrieve your property. Do so and leave immediately. If the police in your area are unwilling to get involved, hire a local lawyer immediately.



  4. #24
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    Jan. 2, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    Because he's going to say you owe him money. If you owe him money (and don't have a contract and he pulls out that online info requiring deposit or payment for damaging fences/gates, etc) then the cop is going to say "it's a civil case" and walk away. (I was a prosecutor for over 28 yrs, a practicing atty for over 33 yrs, and I've seen it all.) If my friend had stood on principle, we'd not have gotten her horse as she said she wouldn't pay. Which is why I took the cash in hand and went there with it.

    So you take cash. When the dude says you owe him X dollars, you pull it out, get a receipt. Otherwise you might end up with an injured, or worse, horse. (I've seen that also.)

    You can always sue him in small claims court afterwards. But the important thing now is to get the horse out. Before you or the horse gets injured.
    Did this also one time. Young friend had all paperwork and receipts for paid in full board when we (my trailer) went to pick up horsie. Barn owner refused to release the horse unless the owner pre-paid the next months board. The pretty sherrif lady looked at me and said pay him which I did so that we could load the horse. The sherrif lady said she could only prevent a fight---she could not force the barn owner to release the horse by the way. Promptly went to small claims court only to have the judge, much to my surprise, charge the barn owner with fraud!


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Packing my bags
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    C&C is the lawyer here, but I'd bring a check.

    Unlike cash, you can stop payment on it, plus it leaves a nifty paper trail when cashed.
    Quote Originally Posted by fargaloo View Post
    Do you not understand how asking "why now?" is EXACTLY part of the reason why assault victims feel silenced?



  6. #26
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    Aug. 2, 2004
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    Whidbey Is, Wash.
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    In some (most) states, it's illegal to write a check and then put a stop payment on it without a very, VERY good reason. Like it was lost in the mail. I wouldn't recommend writing a check and then stopping it.
    COTH's official mini-donk enabler

    "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2012
    Location
    Louisa County, Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowgurl1985 View Post
    Unfortunately for him I have text messages where he specifically said that he notified another person of these rules and not me. He can't pull out anything there is no contract
    Quote Originally Posted by cowgurl1985 View Post
    He also jus updated his website with these rules this passer week
    Quote Originally Posted by cowgurl1985 View Post
    He's sayin I owe him for a deposit not for damages . A deposit was never discussed and om pretty sure a deposit is money to hold something money you pay when you leave
    Cowgurl, with great sympathy for the crummy situation that this loser barn owner has put you in, -- you asked for advice, you've been given very good advice -- now, don't start arguing with that advice.

    It might not be what you want to hear, but it's still good advice.

    I hope it works out for you and your horse.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJenners View Post
    In some (most) states, it's illegal to write a check and then put a stop payment on it without a very, VERY good reason. Like it was lost in the mail. I wouldn't recommend writing a check and then stopping it.
    true

    but it still leaves a paper trail cash does not. That is really handy. I mean REALLY handy.
    Quote Originally Posted by fargaloo View Post
    Do you not understand how asking "why now?" is EXACTLY part of the reason why assault victims feel silenced?



  9. #29
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    Jun. 11, 2009
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    74

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    I appreciate the advice. I wasn't arguing I was only trying to clarifiy things



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
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    NY
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    "The way back machine", a web site, can give you previous versions of a web site.
    You might find the original web page there, and it gives the date it changed. So, you can print out the current web site of the farm and last week's version.
    It doesn't have every web site though, but it might be useful if you take him to small claims court.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Aug. 9, 2007
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    The Jenners is right. And she's a police officer, so she knows what happens when a cop is called for this type situation. And about checks.

    Even if you are in the right, and you write a check and stop payment, you can be arrested for "uttering a bad check." Now sure, a sympathetic judge will drop the charges later if you can prove you don't owe the money. However, in the meantime, you get rousted out of bed about 4am by a SWAT Team (yes they use SWAT teams because they have a lot of free time so they get used for stuff like this) and handcuffed and jailed and have to make bond.

    (The step brother of one of the guy's in my office in Atlanta was SWATTED when he failed to appear in court for urinating in public in the parking lot of a nightclub.)

    Get the horse out however you can using cash. Get a receipt, you are prepare it in advance and have the BO just sign it in front of the cop. Then you can stand on principle and sue if you want to. However, like my friend, you'll probably be so relieved at saving your horse that you will just chalk it up as a bad experience, but lucky to get the horse out in good shape. It's emotionally exhausting.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Jun. 7, 2008
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    now in KCMO, and plan to stay there
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    After you have gotten your horse out of there, please be sure to report back to us that you were successful. Also, please 'out' this sonofableep by at least posting a link to the turd's website, so anyone who reads this forum will know never to do business with him nor to recommend the place to anyone else. Good luck and keep us posted!
    Jeanie
    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Feb. 8, 2004
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    Rolling hills of Virginny
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    However, in the meantime, you get rousted out of bed about 4am by a SWAT Team (yes they use SWAT teams because they have a lot of free time so they get used for stuff like this) and handcuffed and jailed and have to make bond.
    What complete and utter BS.

    No, the court system does not use SWAT teams to arrest people for bad checks. Any type of summons like that is handled by the local Sheriff's Office, which is affiliated with the courts.

    The only one allowed to call in SWAT is the Police Chief himself, not some bored judge who already has enough on his plate without wasting time, money, expensive training and massive firepower on somebody who bounced/put a stop payment on a check.

    The State's Attorney is the one who will issue the summons for a bad check, not the police. Any Police Chief calling in SWAT for something stupid like that should rightfully be stripped of his job for wasting the taxpayers' money.

    The first summons is not a bench warrant, it's merely to let the person know they're to appear in court on a certain date for a pretrial hearing. Now, if they don't bother to show up the judge will usually issue a warrant for their arrest, but no SWAT team is going to be deployed for something that minor.

    Sweet jumping baby Jesus on a pogo stick C&C, what the hell have you been drinking/smoking/snorting to make such a ludicrous claim?
    The plural of anecdote is not data.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Oct. 5, 1999
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    A place called vertigo
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    Default A contract must be signed by all parties to be considered a legal document

    If the BO cannot produce a properly executed contract, then you don't owe him anything. Go get your horse, with bolt cutters and a replacement lock and chain. You owe BO nothing, as a deposit is refunded when the contract is up and all conditions were met. Print out the website in case he changes it again.

    This is NOT a civil matter because there is NO CONTRACT between the parties, and you paid according to your verbal agreement and now he is trying to change the terms.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    Jan. 21, 2010
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    2,201

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    OP, I started a thread here when an acquaintance's horses (that I was caring for) were padlocked into their stalls for late board. You may be able to get some additional advice from this thread, as it seems quite similar.



  16. #36
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by arabhorse2 View Post
    What complete and utter BS.

    No, the court system does not use SWAT teams to arrest people for bad checks. Any type of summons like that is handled by the local Sheriff's Office, which is affiliated with the courts.

    The only one allowed to call in SWAT is the Police Chief himself, not some bored judge who already has enough on his plate without wasting time, money, expensive training and massive firepower on somebody who bounced/put a stop payment on a check.

    The State's Attorney is the one who will issue the summons for a bad check, not the police. Any Police Chief calling in SWAT for something stupid like that should rightfully be stripped of his job for wasting the taxpayers' money.

    Sweet jumping baby Jesus on a pogo stick C&C, what the hell have you been drinking/smoking/snorting to make such a ludicrous claim?
    I don't think you know much about police procedure. SWAT, or any or enhanced force, is not called solely based upon the offense but also the history of the accused. I've seen SWAT used to arrest a speeder who failed to show up in court because he let it be known that he would not go voluntarily and was known to be armed.

    Writing a check with intent to stop payment is black letter fraud. Don't do that.

    The OP, here, is gripping the dirty end of the stick. That sucks, but there it is. She can stand on principle and not get the horse or she can try and negotiate her way out of and get the horse. It's really about that simple.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



  17. #37
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    Feb. 8, 2004
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    Rolling hills of Virginny
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    Giulherme, I highly doubt someone with ONE bounced/stop payment check and no other offenses is going to have the SWAT team show up at their door at 4:00 a.m. and haul them away. That's ridiculous to the extreme.

    If they're a career criminal with a long rap sheet and a history of violent behavior then sure, send in SWAT. But for a regular, run of the mill non-violent offender? Nope, I don't believe it for one second.

    I do know something about court procedure, and no arrest warrants are issued immediately when it comes to something like bad checks. A summons is issued and delivered by a Sheriff's Deputy.
    The plural of anecdote is not data.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    All the other bickering and ideas aside. There is always the 'going out for a ride' and simply ride off the property and not go back technique for removing your horse.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
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    May. 5, 2011
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    I'd look up the relevant laws in your state before doing anything.

    You can set a nasty precedent by paying the money you don't owe, but he says you do. In some jurisdictions, if you pay up, you're basically agreeing you owed the money even if you really didn't and it could be difficult, if not impossible, to get it back. Just something to think about.



  20. #40
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    Jun. 23, 2010
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    Connecticut
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    Get your horse out first, any money issues can be settled in court later. As others have said, bring paperwork that ID's the horse as yours. See if you can get a police officer/deputy accompany you for your own safety. Bring bolt cutters and a replacement chain and/or lock, so you can leave the gates locked, as you found them. Provide the BO with a mailing address (can be a PO Box) for future correspondence.



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