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  1. #41
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    Thanks!



  2. #42
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    Dec. 7, 2006
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    Spruce Grove AB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibrant Black View Post
    Thanks!
    Ditto thanks harvest moon!

    JC doesn't follow DNA'd proven coat colours, so I would not go by thier papers when looking at an odd looking coat. There are still a few that they won't recognize.

    Best online cother's to ask regarding the nitty gritty Colours would be, ACC, RMT, and JB.(NOT Jill Burnell lol!)



  3. #43
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    Mar. 12, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvestmoon View Post
    Nobody is talking about putting down different SHADES of a color (though there have been some horses in the past registered as "light bay", not to mention "dark bay" and "brown"). But when a horse looks like Faux Finish (http://www.truecoloursfarm.com/horsepage.php?id=5), it seems silly to put down "bay" when the horse is clearly anything but.

    In the end it doesn't matter one iota. The dilute population is small, and really not bred to race, so it is very unlikely that a buckskin (or any dilute) TB is going to take the racing world by storm. My point is, if it's a buckskin, just call it a buckskin.
    I find your comment silly. You may call a horse buckskin, but many others would say "light or bright bay". In the end it does matter because you should be able to recognize the JC's colors if you have a tb.
    "All top hat and no canter". *Graureiter*


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
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    May. 30, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
    I find your comment silly. You may call a horse buckskin, but many others would say "light or bright bay". In the end it does matter because you should be able to recognize the JC's colors if you have a tb.
    And I find your comment silly, so we're even.
    "No, not anything goes, I said no rules!"



  5. #45
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    Jun. 25, 2001
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    So, the foal looks bay and the photos show a bay, so the papers are issued as a bay, then it grows up and has some "roaning" or looks more buckskin. Is the JC supposed to re-issue papers now saying it's a buckskin or a bay roan? Who decides what color it is -- especially without a genetic test? (This thread can't even agree on what color Oxbow is.) Heaven forbid the JC add every color out there but get one wrong genetically -- then someone would start complaining bout that. Who's going to pay for the new papers? Who'd going to pay for the testing? What's the point? The horse can be identified by the JC as the horse it is and that's what matters to the JC and the racing world.

    If someone wants to double-register a horse with the JC and as a paint or palomino or buckskin, they are more than welcome to.
    "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Apr. 21, 2008
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    Somewhere in Texas YEEHAW!
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    As far as I understand, a Rabicano has white at his tail head, which I don't believe Oxbow does, although he does seem to have some grey highlights. I actually own a Rabicano TB, although of course he's marked as a bay. Not real strong roaning, it shows up better in certain seasons. There's been white TBs and pinto TBs and Palomino TBs, there can certainly be roans! I do think they should open up the colors just a little bit, what's the harm in accepting that a horse is a different color. No need to be too technical about shades and all, but I think it's funny considering they keep record of literally the whorls on their body and every detailed mark, but wouldn't note the horses proper color lol. If he was any other breed, he'd simply be a bay roan, no question. Shouldn't be any different because he's a TB.

    Anyways, here's a few pictures of my rabicano TB. Strangely his roaning was more prevalent when he was younger. You can faintly see the roan striping on his barrel in some photos, it all depends on the season and the lighting. His sire was a dark bay, as was his full brother, and his half sister was a sorrel, not much white on any of them.

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n..._3690280_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...18353469_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n..._7015850_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...14_97171_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...08841768_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...10784487_n.jpg
    OTTB CONNECT
    FB group for all things related to non racing Thoroughbreds.. Click here to join ~~~> OTTB CONNECT


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    May. 30, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
    So, the foal looks bay and the photos show a bay, so the papers are issued as a bay, then it grows up and has some "roaning" or looks more buckskin. Is the JC supposed to re-issue papers now saying it's a buckskin or a bay roan? Who decides what color it is -- especially without a genetic test? (This thread can't even agree on what color Oxbow is.) Heaven forbid the JC add every color out there but get one wrong genetically -- then someone would start complaining bout that. Who's going to pay for the new papers? Who'd going to pay for the testing? What's the point? The horse can be identified by the JC as the horse it is and that's what matters to the JC and the racing world.

    If someone wants to double-register a horse with the JC and as a paint or palomino or buckskin, they are more than welcome to.
    Then it's a mistake and oh well. But if the foal looks like a buckskin and/or the owner says, "Hey this horse is a buckskin" - register them as a buckskin. That's all I'm saying.
    "No, not anything goes, I said no rules!"



  8. #48
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    He's snazzy, Banshee!
    "No, not anything goes, I said no rules!"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    Apr. 21, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvestmoon View Post
    He's snazzy, Banshee!
    Thanks, I think he is too :-) ! I never saw him before I got him, but when he showed up I knew it was meant to be, because I had platinum and black hair at the time and our ponytails both matched lol. So many people think he's really old because of the white hairs or ask me if I dyed it that way.
    OTTB CONNECT
    FB group for all things related to non racing Thoroughbreds.. Click here to join ~~~> OTTB CONNECT



  10. #50
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    Aug. 14, 2000
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    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
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    The true roan gene is not present in the thoroughbred as others have said, except for one or two mutations in the Eastern Hemisphere. There are gene complexes that cause white of various kinds to show up. If Oxbow has a coat that appears to be roaning, it's probably rabicano and sabino mixed, given his other white. As to a tail in a TB that is mixed white/silver and colored, that's called a skunk tail and is evidence of the rabicano gene. Both sabino and rabicano can be minimally or maximally expressed. I've had both kinds.

    If Oxbow does end up as a true roan (dark head, dark legs, and a body that becomes progressively lighter), he would be the first TB mutation of that type known in the Western Hemisphere (AFAIK). Since we do DNA testing now, it couldn't be due to a fence jumper.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  11. #51
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    May. 4, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeucesWild11 View Post
    He cannot be true roan. It does not exist in TBs. He does have something going on however.
    White, Buckskin, Rabicano were not "accepted" colors by the Jockey Club until more recently. That a horse is colored roan, is a true roan, whether the JC recognizes it or not, is simply part of their bizarre, nearly racist belief that the horses were to be one color and not any other. Besides the imbecilic idea behind this, which also used to declare that there was never a true black in the TB, is also rather disassociated from the actual history of the horse, which, of course, did come from bloodlines which had all sorts of interesting colors and of course, they can crop up, sometimes decades or longer later. Maybe Oxbow can help to overcome another silly color bias.
    "I have brought on the hatred of Wall Street and I relish it".
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvestmoon View Post
    Then it's a mistake and oh well. But if the foal looks like a buckskin and/or the owner says, "Hey this horse is a buckskin" - register them as a buckskin. That's all I'm saying.
    Perhaps they should update the papers, at least online, because the color is to help to identify the horse, and, of course, should represent the actual adult color of the horse, not the foal coat.
    "I have brought on the hatred of Wall Street and I relish it".
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeBreeze View Post
    As far as I understand, a Rabicano has white at his tail head, which I don't believe Oxbow does, although he does seem to have some grey highlights. I actually own a Rabicano TB, although of course he's marked as a bay. Not real strong roaning, it shows up better in certain seasons. There's been white TBs and pinto TBs and Palomino TBs, there can certainly be roans! I do think they should open up the colors just a little bit, what's the harm in accepting that a horse is a different color. No need to be too technical about shades and all, but I think it's funny considering they keep record of literally the whorls on their body and every detailed mark, but wouldn't note the horses proper color lol. If he was any other breed, he'd simply be a bay roan, no question. Shouldn't be any different because he's a TB.

    Anyways, here's a few pictures of my rabicano TB. Strangely his roaning was more prevalent when he was younger. You can faintly see the roan striping on his barrel in some photos, it all depends on the season and the lighting. His sire was a dark bay, as was his full brother, and his half sister was a sorrel, not much white on any of them.

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n..._3690280_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...18353469_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n..._7015850_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...14_97171_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...08841768_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...10784487_n.jpg
    One of the old horsemen's beliefs about a horse with a tail like this, the so-called "skunk tail" is that they were very tough, as in sound horses. I have found this to be true. If anyone sees Thankubellagio, please snatch him up, I lost track of this skunk tail guy when he was claimed into Ohio. Nice horse you have there.
    "I have brought on the hatred of Wall Street and I relish it".
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt



  14. #54
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    Mar. 12, 2006
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    The description of the type and placement of whorls is very important. Color can change or be chemically altered, but a whorl is a whorl is a whorl.

    Is it really possible to be "racist" when discussing horse coat color? Aye-yi-yi
    "All top hat and no canter". *Graureiter*



  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    Perhaps they should update the papers, at least online, because the color is to help to identify the horse, and, of course, should represent the actual adult color of the horse, not the foal coat.
    Makes sense to me, but apparently I'm off my rocker.
    "No, not anything goes, I said no rules!"



  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
    The description of the type and placement of whorls is very important. Color can change or be chemically altered, but a whorl is a whorl is a whorl.

    Is it really possible to be "racist" when discussing horse coat color? Aye-yi-yi
    Who used the term "racist"?

    EDIT: Scratch that, found it.
    "No, not anything goes, I said no rules!"



  17. #57
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    May. 23, 2013
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    So I've been a lurker here for a few years and this is my first post so I hope I don't come off mean So here goes...Oxbow cannot be a true roan because 1) roan is a dominant gene which means that one of his parents has to be roan for him to be same with grey 2) true roan does not exist in the thoroughbred gene pool it's not about the JC not wanting to use the color it simply isn't there unless Oxbow is a new mutation or he is descended from Catch a Bird or his offspring. 3) roans have dark heads with no white flecking Oxbow has white flecks on his head 4) he has a white spot on his chin which indicates the presence of sabino at work. Don't mean to rant but I love equine color genetics and I've studied about them in school. Again hope I don't sound too mean



  18. #58
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    Dec. 7, 2006
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    Welcome silverhorse.

    Just to make a correction, roan does exist in tb's but is limited to just a few(like three) in Australia. There is Slip Catch, Lavender Fields and Lilac Hill.
    If the link doesn't work, check out Winning Colours Farm.

    http://http://www.winningcoloursfarm...m#slip%20catch



  19. #59
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    May. 23, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss J View Post
    Welcome silverhorse.

    Just to make a correction, roan does exist in tb's but is limited to just a few(like three) in Australia. There is Slip Catch, Lavender Fields and Lilac Hill.
    If the link doesn't work, check out Winning Colours Farm.

    http://http://www.winningcoloursfarm.com.au/Race%20Mares.htm#slip%20catch
    Thanks for the welcome and the correction I had forgotten that Catch a Bird had some roany offspring duh me that's how they found he had a weird mutation

    I looked up the farm and saw Slip Catch and Lilac Hill. I love that the farm is trying to preserve their rare color. It would be nice to have a new color from some pretty good bloodlines here in the US.
    Last edited by silverhorse101; May. 24, 2013 at 01:52 AM. Reason: oops extra smiley



  20. #60
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    ^^ you bet. Catch a Bird is deseaced isn't he? Ya it is pretty cool to literally have a few roans! At one point Winning Colours had them all but sold one mare. They have some pretty neat colours in thier program that's for sure.

    I personally love a dominant white buckskin or smokey black.



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