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  1. #81
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    Also, on a side, note, and while this is terribly sad and I don't understand it.... Some riders, who are at these levels, have access to far more horses then the one they are currently on. The "strings". They maybe not be as worried about it as someone say, who this is THE Onlly chance they have. WEGS are coming, and I think many are trying to be fully qualified, and ready. NO matter what expense there is. Because to ride for the team, the TEAM has to be your top priority.
    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
    www.mmceventing.com


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  2. #82
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    I'll disagree with the comment that just because these are pro's they know what's best. Take a look at the short list for last year's olympics for the US, how many of them are actively competing this year? Those horses ran a ton last spring and now the majority aren't even competing.

    I know some are being targeted for later events but there has been a significant time off.

    Veronica may be sound now but what is she going to be a month or two from now. It's the cumulative effect that gets them.
    "I couldn't find my keys, so I put her in the trunk"


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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debbie View Post
    According to the EN write up, the mare is going to the CCI*** Bromont in 3 weeks.
    May be looking at Burghley. Perhaps there are some grants available.


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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLR View Post
    May be looking at Burghley. Perhaps there are some grants available.
    I hope so! That would be awesome!



  5. #85
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    Out curiosity, what are the qualifications for a 4 star? I know that they changed the qualifications so that if a rider isn't categorized the pair has to qualify together but are the qualifications that strenuous that this kind of behaviour is necessary? If Veronica is being pointed towards Rolex isn't that almost an entire year away? Or do you think the horse is being used to get the rider categorized?



  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Debbie View Post
    I think the "business" of the short format is horrible for riders and horses. The travel, stress, and wear and tear - it's all become a bit like carnies.
    I agree.
    It's a damn shame that eventing has become just another part of the horse "industry".
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahbaumgardner View Post
    Btw, I'm a huge fan of this mare. I LOVE her and from what I've seen, she is absolutely a 4* talent. Her E at Rolex last year was a RF where the mare kept jumping a very technical element even with Karen totally unseated. That E, in part, showed me that Veronica has what it takes.
    I remember watching that, and being very impressed. What an honest, genuine horse!


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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    I remember watching that, and being very impressed. What an honest, genuine horse!
    So glad someone shared my reaction. That was the moment I really started watching Veronica. And I have been very impressed with Lauren's riding and horsemanship at the events around here. She is always very pleasant and friendly to little old ammies like me, whether I'm competing or volunteering. I hope that this new partnership brings great things to both horse and rider.


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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by gold2012 View Post
    Also, on a side, note, and while this is terribly sad and I don't understand it.... Some riders, who are at these levels, have access to far more horses then the one they are currently on. The "strings".
    ^^^ this is all a matter of perspective. Our American pros are by comparison very horse poor. When foreigners can bring their second string horses over here and beat our pants off, we know that we don't have the wealth of horses that they have. I am amazed at the talented riders we have who simply do not have the horses or the funds to go find the horses. We have a lot to do if we want to truly be competitive. Eventing is not a popular or well-funded sport here, as evidenced by our lack of horses AND the fact that eventing is not nearly as popular as a spectator sport.


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  10. #90
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    There are worse things than not being able to consistently field gold medal teams. Is it really worth it if we have to ruin the horses to get there?


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  11. #91
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    I just don't understand how people think we are ruining our horses any more than we've ruined them in the past. Eventing is very hard on horses and historically, horses have "broken" often. Years ago, I was told that a horse's talent is a small part of the equation, with the largest part being how tough the horse is to be able to stand up to the rigors of this sport. If we don't want them to break, then we shouldn't train and compete them. We do whatever we can to keep them sound. Of course. This entire discussion began with a criticism of Veronica and Lauren doing back to back CIC/CCI events and the reaction has been quite negative. What do we know about the details of this vet/training protocol? I of course wonder why and how they are doing it. But I feel compelled to present the other side only because I find this unfair and demeaning toward a rider who I've seen take outstanding care of her horses (withdrawing after dressage if its very hot or the footing is hard, when some of the people on this forum went ahead and ran their horses).

    Who are we to make such blanket judgments?

    Grrrr.....


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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahbaumgardner View Post
    My vet will disagree wholeheartedly. He tells me that the disappearance of the long format meant far few horses come in to him shortly after an event, broken and done. He's seen a lot of top event horses over the years. I was surprised when he told me this as I went along with the popular opinion you note. Don't get me wrong, I love the long format. But I also believe my vet.
    NOt to hijack into a LF thread, but the long format HAS to have been harder - I believe your vet. Look only at the number of miles galloped, steps taken, at the event itself - it was harder. Today's courses may require very fit horses, but removing 20 miles, 5 of them at racing speed, made it easier. That said, I was hoping Veronica was going to get a bit of vacation after this month of hard work. But if horses could do a LF, maybe they are also tough enough to take those extra 20 miles and do more SF events.


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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahbaumgardner View Post
    I hope so! That would be awesome!
    Let me get this straight.

    We're talking about a horse that has a spotty record at 3*, that was E'd at its only attempt at a 4*, which was the 'soft' 4* of Rolex. And we're talking about a rider that has ridden exactly once at 4* level, three years ago, also at the 'soft' 4* of Rolex.

    Yet you think that Burghley, perhaps the toughest of the world's CCI****s, is an 'awesome!' goal at this time for this pair?


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  14. #94

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    It is important to remember that Veronica with Lauren aboard is a very diffrent horse than she was with Karen. No disrespect intended. Just observation. Therefore, JER, i am very willing to cut Vronica some slack recordwise.


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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    Let me get this straight.

    We're talking about a horse that has a spotty record at 3*, that was E'd at its only attempt at a 4*, which was the 'soft' 4* of Rolex. And we're talking about a rider that has ridden exactly once at 4* level, three years ago, also at the 'soft' 4* of Rolex.

    Yet you think that Burghley, perhaps the toughest of the world's CCI****s, is an 'awesome!' goal at this time for this pair?
    Record was with a different rider and over a year ago. So.... ?

    And that E showed an outstanding horse. Watch the video.

    Are we the experts on what they are now capable of? We have very little information .... In comparison to the trainers, rider, vets.


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  16. #96
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    Last year leading up to the Olympic Games, people were questioning the number of times horses were being run at the 3* and then Rolex. Under CMP, they ran the legs off of horses. I would hope people would have learned some lessons.

    Evidence?

    Twizzel (last comp Olympics 7/28/12) Has W'd from every comp entered this year
    Mystery Whisper (Olympics 7/28/12) Some allowance that arden wildasin is injured
    Otis Barbotiere (Olympics 7/28/12)
    Arthur (Burghley 8/30/12)
    Manior de Carneville (Burghley 8/30/12)

    Ringwood Magister is still competing but his pre-olympic competition schedule was much lighter than the US based horses.

    I'm generally happier that this year horses seem to be running less. At least some are.
    "I couldn't find my keys, so I put her in the trunk"



  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitToBeTied View Post
    Last year leading up to the Olympic Games, people were questioning the number of times horses were being run at the 3* and then Rolex. Under CMP, they ran the legs off of horses. I would hope people would have learned some lessons.

    Evidence?

    Twizzel (last comp Olympics 7/28/12) Has W'd from every comp entered this year
    Mystery Whisper (Olympics 7/28/12) Some allowance that arden wildasin is injured
    Otis Barbotiere (Olympics 7/28/12)
    Arthur (Burghley 8/30/12)
    Manior de Carneville (Burghley 8/30/12)

    Ringwood Magister is still competing but his pre-olympic competition schedule was much lighter than the US based horses.

    I'm generally happier that this year horses seem to be running less. At least some are.
    The thought has crossed my mind, in fact, that at least some of these horses are probably NOT running, to save for WEG. There are some very very nice horses that have done three stars, but haven't ran all year.....

    Perhaps THAT is why some others are running SO hard. Trying to get in the qualifications/and get noticed for WEG.
    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
    www.mmceventing.com



  18. #98
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    ^^^ are you attributing these horses not running to having been over competed in the past? Horses retire. They break down. They go on to easier lives. How do we know that this is due to running back to back events and not to simply running so many events?

    My own Mick Dreamy will likely be done in a couple of years. We will go on to dressage or maybe driving. He is 12 and he has given me wonderful runs at prelim and interm, but not without costs. He requires maintenance. He has been lame in the past. But we've brought him back and we are hopeful that he can continue. But there will come a time when my vet and I will decide that he is no longer an UL horse.

    Does this mean I've competed him too much? I think we all know that event horses often retire when their bodies tell us that they are done. I don't see this as wrong.... It's what happens, across disciplines and especially in ours.



  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitToBeTied View Post
    Last year leading up to the Olympic Games, people were questioning the number of times horses were being run at the 3* and then Rolex. Under CMP, they ran the legs off of horses. I would hope people would have learned some lessons.

    Evidence?

    Twizzel (last comp Olympics 7/28/12) Has W'd from every comp entered this year
    Mystery Whisper (Olympics 7/28/12) Some allowance that arden wildasin is injured
    Otis Barbotiere (Olympics 7/28/12)
    Arthur (Burghley 8/30/12)
    Manior de Carneville (Burghley 8/30/12)

    Ringwood Magister is still competing but his pre-olympic competition schedule was much lighter than the US based horses.

    I'm generally happier that this year horses seem to be running less. At least some are.

    And yet the Olympic gold medal horse placed 2nd at Badminton ahead of multiple other 2012 Olympic horse/rider combos.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


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  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    And yet the Olympic gold medal horse placed 2nd at Badminton ahead of multiple other 2012 Olympic horse/rider combos.
    This.



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