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  1. #81
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    May. 23, 2013
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    I love Weimaraners. They are big enough to be intimidating to strangers but are huge loves. They adore kids and are very protective of both children and the rest of their human family. Our weim is 105 pounds and scary to look at but he still nurses on his bed every morning while the kids pet him. Just a big baby really but tell that to a stranger!



  2. #82
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2011
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    Cynthiana KY (~40 min. NE of Lexington)
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    Not everybody's cup of tea, but I love our Rottweilers. Every one that we've had has been awesome with children, whether they were our child or not. They are super intelligent dogs, very laid back dispositions, and very low energy. They are naturally protective, but seem to be very discerning. They are very intimidating looking, but great family dogs. Ours have always had nicknames like Teddy-bear Dog and Fat Dog. When our son was an infant, our Rottie would let him crawl all over him, would lick him, would lay next to him if he cried and put his head over him until I got there to pick him up.

    Having said that, they do require socialization and training, even moreso than some other dog breeds. I would not recommend them to a novice owner. But the OP isn't a novice dog owner, soo.....

    I was surprised at the number of people who recommended collies and collie mixes. Maybe I was just never around a family-type collie, but that's one of the breeds (based on my experiences anyway) that I would never want around young children and same for any kind of terrier. The ones I knew really wanted to herd everything (in the collie cases) and that included children. And I've had bad experiences with most JRT that I've ever met. Very nippy breed, although I know there are exceptions.

    Sheila

    PS--on my website we have a link to a page dedicated to our old Rottie, who died two years ago. I'm pretty sure I put pictures on it of him with our young son laying on him.
    Sheila Zeltt
    Chestnut Run Stable & Zeltt Racing Stable
    www.Zeltt.com
    Standing "Tiz Brian" at Stud, 16.1 h bay TB by Tiznow


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
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    Aug. 26, 2008
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    Your friend may have a very hard time finding a reputable breeder who will place a puppy in a home with four kids under the age of six
    That kind of attitude is exactly why people don't bother with "reputable" breeders, and instead head for down-to-earth people who are willing to talk to them as individual families and assess how ready they are to take on a puppy.

    It is VERY infuriating to open a conversation with a breeder and have them run through their (often arbitrary, or ill-considered) set of rules and IMMEDIATELY decide that you are completely incapable of being a good home.

    "Dog outside?" - awful, negligent.
    "Too many young kids?" - awful, negligent, puppy will be poorly socialized and end up abandoned.
    "Doesn't plan on feeding the all-raw crazy diet you just read about?" - horrible, animal killer.
    "Stairs on the property with no ramps in place for Bernese puppies?" - awful, no way could you responsibly own a puppy. Might as well break its hips right now.
    "Never owned a dog of this breed before?" - too stupid and inexperienced to know what you are getting into.



    Yes, puppies are a lot of work. You know who is ACTUALLY likely to understand how much work babies/children/puppies are? Parents who have a whole passel of 'em. You might want to get a better feel for that family before you assume that they are ill-equipped to raise a DOG. You know who doesn't understand how much work puppies are? Young, double-income, childless professional couples who read Internet forums and know how to answer all the survey questions with the correct buzzwords.
    Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Lexington, KY
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    Well, if it's not a working dog (as in livestock guardian), and dog outside 24/7 it's a problem to me too. And 4 kids under 6, a problem to me also. The adopter would fail most rescue questionnaires as well.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #85
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    May. 23, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasjordan View Post
    If you're protecting family, I believe you want a big,black dog- visual intimidation takes care of more than half of criminals with ill intent I'd bet. If someone is scoping a house and sees a medium sized heeler cross at one place and a big,black Shep/Dob/Rott at the other- they'll be hitting up the heeler's house first. Now, the heeler may take care of the issue- but the big,black dog already took care of his issue just by the way he looks. When it comes to choosing that big,black dog- I'm all for a GSD especially if you already have experience with Malinois. You'd be getting a less intense, bigger,somewhat similar dog which seems to be what you're looking for? My GSD is the perfect dog for us, he can go anywhere and he will listen. He likes people, he's not going to bound over and lick a stranger to death, he's going to stand in front of us and watch and wait....then when he sees all is ok, he will go to be petted then come back to his family. He sees my nephew (2 years old) maybe twice a month and there are no strangers who would be allowed near him, yet he plays great with him. I have no doubt you would need to kill him to get to my daughter or myself, yet he's offleash with us everywhere we go-he listens wonderfully. I put a TON of time in him as a pup. To getwhat you want, I would clarify that- socialize like crazy, every second of his puppyhood I think I directed lol. He knows hand signals for every command, can drop him by pumping your fist, stop him by holding up your hand, so smart! Which could backfire if the time's not spent training I'm sure. Love him to death, he's our perfect family/farm dog.
    http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...pse09a98cd.jpg
    Video of him doing a few of his hand signals, tough to do the hand signals and video with your phone lol-
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater
    This is absolutely true. Our last dog was a 50 pound black greyhound/lab mix and he terrified people but he was the sweetest dog. He would have let anybody into our home if you want the truth!



  6. #86
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2005
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    Cascade Foothills
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    Quote Originally Posted by microbovine View Post
    Not Bull Mastiffs. They not generally good with children. The most awesome family protection dog is actually the much larger English Mastiff. They are wonderful with kids and protective. They are also expensive, rare, and have short life spans. We didn't get one, but we seriously considered it.
    Must respectfully disagree. I think a bull mastiff can make a very good family dog.

    I'd say search the shelters for a pitbull type with a good temperament and some basic manners . . . the world is overflowing with wonderful large dogs with the perfect combination of big bark, big body, big heart.
    My ears hear a symphony of two mules, trains, and rain. The best is always yet to come, that's what they explained to me. —Bob Dylan

    Fenway Bartholomule ♥ Arrietty G. Teaspoon Brays Of Our Lives



  7. #87
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    Dec. 18, 2006
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugbygirl View Post
    That kind of attitude is exactly why people don't bother with "reputable" breeders, and instead head for down-to-earth people who are willing to talk to them as individual families and assess how ready they are to take on a puppy.
    Well, can you blame them? I mean, I think most breeders should talk to them anyway, but I agree with Laura - unless the dog is going to live outside, that's a pretty high expectation for any family and not necessarily the best for a puppy. And what kind of breeder wants to place a "guard/protection" dog into a family with 4 young kids. Who is willing to take that risk - no matter how well-bred and family-friendly the puppy is, it is still an animal (a baby one), that might nip at a young child or toddler if provoked; times four. Does the breeder want that sort of situation on their conscience, or clouding their reputation as a breeder of good "family-friendly" GSDs?

    And, if all goes well, and the dog is super friendly and behaves itself; where will it fall on the list of important things in a household with 4 young kids? At the bottom....#7 or lower of important living beings - which is where it should go - but what breeder is going to choose that as an ideal situation for their puppy?

    I have kids. They are a lot of work, especially under the age of 6. Puppy ownership and young kids *can* be done. But if I were a GSD breeder I would suggest that this family get a well-bred black lab, or wait a few years and then get a puppy.



  8. #88
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    Aug. 26, 2008
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    It's the attitude, S1969...people wonder why others DON'T go to rescues and "reputable" breeders...it's the ATTITUDE.

    When someone calls you to talk about the suitability of a particular type of dog for your family, the attitude that you need to achieve a "score" on the questionnaire to be considered is stupid. Most people are reasonable. If you talked to them about their situation, you might reach the same conclusion...except you'd be a lot more likely to get their buy-in...they'd agree. Like the Dalmatian breeder I mentioned in my other thread...we both reached the conclusion that the breed wasn't for us...but she didn't make me feel like I'd failed an exam. It took her all of about 20 minutes to get us to that point.

    The "dogs outside" thing is a great example. If I came to you, as a busy single professional person living in the City, to adopt a Greyhound...then yes. In no way would it be acceptable for the dog to live outside. It gets to -40C here. There's no way a dog gets the attention and stimulus it needs to thrive in some tiny backyard in the City. Now, if I'm a person living on a good-sized country property with livestock, coming to you to adopt a Pyrenees? Yeah, living outside might be a good way to keep a dog. No, it shouldn't be chained to a stake and left alone all the time, but that's not what "living outside" means. I'd be more than willing to hear your advice on what type of enclosure/house to provide, what to feed the dog, be more than happy to accept your recommendation for a vet, and an obedience school. I'd also be happy to modify my property based on your recommendations, if they were sensible.

    When you make statements like, "no reputable breeder is going to let a puppy go to a family with 4 kids under 6"...you're just driving people to the breeders on Craigslist who WILL sell them a nice puppy. When I read your questionnaire and it's full of "must" and "NEVER"...screw that. Some dog people REALLY need to start taking ownership of the fact that they essentially DRIVE people to pet stores and puppy mills. It's not that people are intent on buying unsuitable animals...it's that when you are interested in acquiring a pet, and you are treated disrespectfully like some under-performing kindergartener...most rational, reasonable adults are not going to patronize a business that makes them feel that way.
    Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior



  9. #89
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    Dec. 18, 2006
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugbygirl View Post
    It's the attitude, S1969...people wonder why others DON'T go to rescues and "reputable" breeders...it's the ATTITUDE..
    Well, I agree to an extent. I DO think breeders should talk to prospective owners, and not be condescending, and not make assumptions about *always* and *never*.

    But I also think that prospective owners need to do their homework. Breeders are regular people - most have full time jobs outside of their dog breeding hobby, and don't have unlimited time to educate everyone on what a particular breed is like. There are books and books and websites about these things, and the prospective owner that calls a breeder before they have done a fair amount of this legwork is very likely going to catch some attitude.

    My guess is that if you tried to adopt a Pyr from a breed rescue or from a LGD breeder, they would not only allow you to keep it outside, but would suggest that you do. Because they know the breed. But an all-breed shelter or rescue probably has rules in place to make things easier and avoid problems - there are people who really would tie their dog to a stake in the backyard and think that is ok. Probably the same people who had a dog like that growing up.

    A good breeder doesn't have to educate the masses; those that ARE educated will find them, ask the right questions, and wait for a puppy at the right time. Personally, I think we should have higher expectations of our prospective puppy buyers - not just our breeders.



  10. #90
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2003
    Location
    Canada
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    Agree about breeder's ATTITUDE!
    No COTH consensus here, as usual.

    We had a Dobie who would not let our kids out of his sight - but when other kids came over he sat brooding in a corner, eyeing them while he curled his lip. Not good.

    Our daughter has a Boxer - and she is all the wonderful things a boxer should be but just by looking at her a stranger might think twice. It is that face!
    We know people who have had five in a row they are so devoted to the breed.

    JR's - we bred them since 1977 starting with a bitch from the Portman Hunt.
    Excellent with kids, excellent at warning, but probably would not stop a thief.

    English Mastiffs - know a breeder - excellent when raised in a family - need the time and knowledge spent on them. All those breeds, Caine Corso, etc.
    of the mastiff variety are very intimidating and need time andknow what is expected of them. I know a CC that went very wrong....and one that is the opposite.

    Basically most dogs have the potential, except the toy breeds?!
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique



  11. #91
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    Jun. 30, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugbygirl View Post
    That kind of attitude is exactly why people don't bother with "reputable" breeders, and instead head for down-to-earth people who are willing to talk to them as individual families and assess how ready they are to take on a puppy.
    A reputable breeder knows their dogs & which pup is best suited to which life/home style - if you are not a proponent of this, there are hundreds/thousands of dog/pups available through sources such as Craigslist, shelters etc, etc.

    Yes, puppies are a lot of work. You know who is ACTUALLY likely to understand how much work babies/children/puppies are? Parents who have a whole passel of 'em. You might want to get a better feel for that family before you assume that they are ill-equipped to raise a DOG. You know who doesn't understand how much work puppies are? Young, double-income, childless professional couples who read Internet forums and know how to answer all the survey questions with the correct buzzwords.
    Unfortunately statistics do not support your theory.
    Some families are excellent, some singles are excellent - it's usually pretty easy when watching the prospective buyers/adopters interact with resident dogs/pups, to judge dogability

    Most breeders have invested a lot into their dogs, why should they not choose the home these dogs will go into, make the best choice they can upon meeting prospective homes ...

    I met a Cavalier breeder yesterday who will breed her bitch with any male that looks to be the right breed (papers not required, health check not done on her dog nor required for the male), her pups are for sale to first money (with a few obvious exceptions), they aren't too expensive as she doesn't do the health testing, u/s checks through pregnancy etc ...
    very nice lady, no way in heck I'd ever buy one of her pups.

    For me, I want the breeder that won't breed without appropriate health checks for that breed, that keeps her dogs in her home, that does agility/obedience or whatever with her dog, that socializes the pups according to the current research on dog developmental periods, that crate trains & accustoms the pup to "alone time", that considers herself to have a lifetime commitment to every pup she puts out there, who stays in touch with every family, etc, etc.
    & yeah, I'll pay $$$$ for all of that, rather than picking up the pup from down-to-earth people listed on Kijiji.
    And I'll be paying the same for that well bred pup, as the going rate for the cute designer puppy mill dogs that abound on my local sales lists.



  12. #92
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    May. 4, 2003
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    Canada
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    ...I think any dog that comes to live here has come to dog heaven.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique



  13. #93
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    Dec. 11, 2005
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    Castle Rock, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pleiad View Post
    I love Weimaraners. They are big enough to be intimidating to strangers but are huge loves. They adore kids and are very protective of both children and the rest of their human family. Our weim is 105 pounds and scary to look at but he still nurses on his bed every morning while the kids pet him. Just a big baby really but tell that to a stranger!
    I have always had an interest in the Weimaraners.. what is the good and the bad with them?
    Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
    " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
    Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.



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