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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 18, 2007
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    FL
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    Default I am really intrigued by this training

    Here is a picture of a 5 yo Arab/ Dutch Harness cross mare being trained. This trainer starts them off bridleless! He never loses his cool. We swear he has no pulse and way more confidence in the horses than I would have! It works !!!

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2013
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    Hopefully at the barn
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    432

    Default

    Wow!
    Tack Cleaning/All-Things-Tack nut
    ~DQ wanna-be~



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    Sure, you can do that, but why?

    The idea of starting colts is to give them the best chance to learn without any fireworks, that may set the horse back, or could even cause bad habits.

    For that, best to have some real control, because you can't foresee all that may happen around you.
    It just takes one bad experience to undo much you have done before to gain the colt's confidence.

    I think it is silly to, as so many western trainers do, take all the time and do a great job to get your colt saddled quietly ... and then turn it lose to run around, without any control on your part.
    Then stand there wondering why some colts took off blindly bucking into the fences?

    If she is trying to prove some point, why a saddle at all?
    We started many colts in a halter and bareback first ride or two, more as part of desensitizing than a real ride.
    We may or not have introduced a saddle before.
    Then the saddle if not before and a rider in the saddle.

    Each colt we started determined how we went about it by the way it was responding to what we were doing.
    Yes, some we could have just ridden without anything on their heads the first ride.
    Not doing so is not about confidence, but being prudent.
    Just because you can do something, that doesn't mean it is the smart thing to do.

    I would say, don't try that at home.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
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    11,257

    Default

    I think I'd rather get on with a halter and leadrope attached just in case.

    However, I was thrilled to see all the helmets!


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 3, 2006
    Location
    Spooner, WI
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    Default

    There is something to approaching horses as would a child. No threat.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    There is something to approaching horses as would a child. No threat.

    Are you implying people start horses threatening them?
    That doesn't make much sense.

    We started many, many horses, including dozens of feral horses.
    There would not have made any sense to threaten them.
    To the contrary, you work to be sure they are not feeling pressured, much less threatened at any time.
    That would impede learning.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2006
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    2,129

    Default

    There is a man near Gresham, OR that trains this way too. He said the point of leaving their head free is so the horse can make the decision to stay or go. If you have a horse that runs off bucking, you didn't follow the correct steps.

    Not every one has this ability. It takes something beyond just horsemanship, inmh.
    "All top hat and no canter". *Graureiter*



  8. #8
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    Here is one of many we started, first picture first ride, around the yard, bareback and with a halter, other pictures all working with her in the first 30 days:

    http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...63D773A3-1.jpg

    One picture showing the rope nose hackamore we make and we use to start colts and how we introduced a snaffle along with it.

    There we start her with rope work and cattle position.

    Filly went on to the track later.

    We can start colts any one way of many.
    Some just make more sense than others.



  9. #9
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
    There is a man near Gresham, OR that trains this way too. He said the point of leaving their head free is so the horse can make the decision to stay or go. If you have a horse that runs off bucking, you didn't follow the correct steps.

    Not every one has this ability. It takes something beyond just horsemanship, inmh.
    Maybe you are right, it takes something more beyond just horsemanship to start colts, like some common sense.

    In the OP picture, you can see how the saddle is turning.
    That puts pressure on the horse's back, digging into it, a no-no in good horsemanship.
    You are supposed to get on while balancing over the saddle, so that doesn't happen.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    Jun. 7, 2002
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    Virginia
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    Default

    I'm sure there's something to this. I'm always fascinated that even the nastiest cats will barely flinch when given an injection if they're NOT restrained. But have someone hold the same cat for you to inject and you suddenly have a hissing, screaming, dagger wielding monster!
    I've started more youngsters than I can count and only ONCE have I had one buck on day one. Only ONCE. I think I could've gotten on the others without a bridle and it may have been more fun and educational for them because they would have had fewer distractions. No one has perfect balance and the very last thing anyone wants is for a horse to get caught in the mouth or to feel that he doesn't have his head and neck free to aid in his own balance during his first experience with a rider on his back. I see this technique as insurance that the horse's first experience will be a good one. I'm sure they don't mount until the horse is ready, the trust is there and they know it will be a positive experience.
    And Bluey - you do it differently. Not better, not worse. Just different. There's no attack on your methods here.
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2010
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    2,235

    Default

    I think it's a stupid idea to start bridless. Sure it may look cool but when working with a greenie things can and do go wrong that you can't predict. Sometimes it doesn't matter if you took your time and followed all the correct steps, a horse is a horse, and you have to be prepared for that. I fully support starting bitless, either with a bosal or a loping halter, but not without any sort of halter/bridle.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackieBlue View Post
    I'm sure there's something to this. I'm always fascinated that even the nastiest cats will barely flinch when given an injection if they're NOT restrained. But have someone hold the same cat for you to inject and you suddenly have a hissing, screaming, dagger wielding monster!
    I've started more youngsters than I can count and only ONCE have I had one buck on day one. Only ONCE. I think I could've gotten on the others without a bridle and it may have been more fun and educational for them because they would have had fewer distractions. No one has perfect balance and the very last thing anyone wants is for a horse to get caught in the mouth or to feel that he doesn't have his head and neck free to aid in his own balance during his first experience with a rider on his back. I see this technique as insurance that the horse's first experience will be a good one. I'm sure they don't mount until the horse is ready, the trust is there and they know it will be a positive experience.
    And Bluey - you do it differently. Not better, not worse. Just different. There's no attack on your methods here.
    Who is "hanging on a horse's mouth" when getting on?
    Surely not someone that is advanced enough to start colts properly?

    No, you have a lose rope, but you do have something as an insurance that the unexpected may not happen and turn into a bad experience, that was my point.

    I too have never had a horse buck I was starting, but then, I learned from people that considered that a failure of the one starting the colt.
    You were taught to prepare the colt enough so that didn't happen, or back off and do more preparation if the horse was not quite ready and showing it.

    I did have a horse buck someone else was starting and I was test pilot, but that was because someone in the club house, above the indoor, watching, dropped something with a big bang and set the feral horse off.
    They apologized profusely, I am sure they didn't do it on purpose and normally the horses were used to those noises, just that time that big bang was a real surprise to all.
    Horse was on a longe line, so other than me landing on his hips and the horse bucking a few strides, we regrouped and all was fine after that.

    Without something holding the horse, that would have been a real rodeo.
    He would have learned to buck big time when something set him off.

    Yes, I agree, different strokes and all that.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    9,004

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    Quote Originally Posted by SAcres View Post
    I think it's a stupid idea to start bridless. Sure it may look cool but when working with a greenie things can and do go wrong that you can't predict. Sometimes it doesn't matter if you took your time and followed all the correct steps, a horse is a horse, and you have to be prepared for that. I fully support starting bitless, either with a bosal or a loping halter, but not without any sort of halter/bridle.
    This.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr. 5, 2012
    Posts
    663

    Default

    Is it just me or is he mounting/dismounting on the wrong side?
    If i smell like peppermint, I gave my horse treats.
    If I smell like shampoo, I gave my horse a bath.
    If I smell like manure, I tripped.



  15. #15
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    Feb. 9, 2011
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    IE SoCal
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DottieHQ View Post
    Is it just me or is he mounting/dismounting on the wrong side?
    Any broke horse should be able to deal with you mounting from either side.

    There's no reason why that idea can't be introduced from the very beginning.
    ______________________________________________
    My Blog -horses & photography


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2002
    Location
    Virginia
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    3,645

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Who is "hanging on a horse's mouth" when getting on?
    Surely not someone that is advanced enough to start colts properly?

    No, you have a lose rope, but you do have something as an insurance that the unexpected may not happen and turn into a bad experience, that was my point.

    I too have never had a horse buck I was starting, but then, I learned from people that considered that a failure of the one starting the colt.
    You were taught to prepare the colt enough so that didn't happen, or back off and do more preparation if the horse was not quite ready and showing it.

    I did have a horse buck someone else was starting and I was test pilot, but that was because someone in the club house, above the indoor, watching, dropped something with a big bang and set the feral horse off.
    They apologized profusely, I am sure they didn't do it on purpose and normally the horses were used to those noises, just that time that big bang was a real surprise to all.
    Horse was on a longe line, so other than me landing on his hips and the horse bucking a few strides, we regrouped and all was fine after that.

    Without something holding the horse, that would have been a real rodeo.
    He would have learned to buck big time when something set him off.

    Yes, I agree, different strokes and all that.

    1. You put "hanging on a horse's mouth" as if I typed that somewhere in my post. Um, I did not.

    2. Someone holding a horse when it bucks in reaction to a stimulus or stimuli does not necessarily prevent the horse from learning to buck in response to such things. Just as, giving the horse its head does not teach it to buck in the event that the situation repeats itself.

    3. No need to take every post seriously, Bluey. This thread is not about you or how you start a young horse.
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DottieHQ View Post
    Is it just me or is he mounting/dismounting on the wrong side?
    When we first get on and off a horse, we do so from both sides equally, before moving it out.

    In different stables, with different trainers, I have seen all kinds of ways of starting horses, some right in the stall in race track farms, some outside, some in round pens, many of ours here we started in the race track barn, that was built like a shedrow and had a place to ride around and around and also in the middle of it, then go out around the yard, generally the first day with most horses we started and didn't have problems before we got them to start, someone else had not tried first and then bring them to retrain.

    You really can do it any one way, as long as you are sensible about it and the horses will be fine anyway.



  18. #18
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    Apr. 3, 2006
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    Spooner, WI
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Are you implying people start horses threatening them?
    That doesn't make much sense.

    We started many, many horses, including dozens of feral horses.
    There would not have made any sense to threaten them.
    To the contrary, you work to be sure they are not feeling pressured, much less threatened at any time.
    That would impede learning.
    Talk about out of context. Geez lighten up. We are a predator by nature. Horses aren't stupid, and can/will/may respond as prey. Children are babies.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Dec. 19, 2007
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    Camden, DE
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    Default

    I have actually had a horse trained with this trainer. Said horse was already pretty broke to WTC, but had some other issues that needed to be touched up. He did a great job. He was honest, and everyone at the farm seemed to have the animals best interest in mind. He did jumping, flat, round pen, and a few other exercises. I don't recall anything bridle-less with that particular horse.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2006
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    2,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Maybe you are right, it takes something more beyond just horsemanship to start colts, like some common sense.

    In the OP picture, you can see how the saddle is turning.
    That puts pressure on the horse's back, digging into it, a no-no in good horsemanship.
    You are supposed to get on while balancing over the saddle, so that doesn't happen.
    Horse trainers with real talent have common horse sense. And a lot more. Your observations about the saddle don't seem to bother the horse. It appears to be in sync with the trainer. You sound a bit jealous.

    Edit to add: how in the heck do you get any riding, let alone training, done with the number of posts you have?
    Last edited by Gestalt; May. 12, 2013 at 11:28 PM. Reason: Adding question to bluye
    "All top hat and no canter". *Graureiter*


    2 members found this post helpful.

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