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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2004
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    NE Indiana
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    5,528

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    LE, thank you SO much for the wonderful information! I'm going t do some research - I'd love to get something like this implemented here. I'm excited!



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2000
    Location
    CT
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    2,352

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    Sad situation.
    It seems the officers did what they believed best to protect the public. May well be that more training is needed, but that is for next time.
    May vary by state, but here the animal owner has "strict liability". As it was explained to me, you are responsible for your animal and any damage it does. Even if you tied a ball and chain to each leg and surrounded it with razor wire, if it got out and caused damage, you ARE liable.



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2007
    Location
    California
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    3,732

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    Quote Originally Posted by spacytracy View Post
    Sorry, but those who say "put up flares" .... They're moving targets! 1000 lb ones!

    Human life trumps animal. If they had made more efforts to contain the horses, and in the process, someone hit them, and got injured or killed, there would be hell to pay.

    I'm sorry her horses died, but I think the officers number one duty is to protect human life. And at 2 am in the pitch black, the options are limited.

    We find it hard to believe that non horse people have no common sense. Horse knowledge ISN'T common sense!

    It is very sad what happened and we weren't there so my remarks are only speculation - interestingly I agree with your stance here..... however....

    It is very odd they would comment about trying to get a horse over a 5 ft fence. No horse I own would be able to do that. It didn't appear much effort was made to divert traffic... and

    why was no effort made to contact the property owner right away? They stated they knew where the horses came from.

    There still may be hell to pay because the liability of a State or City agency is always a big factor. I work for a large city. If the horse owner wanted to she could file a claim and have the occurrence investigated. And findings may be on her side. I have seen similar cases that do go that way. They can find the officers/troopers were not trained properly or didn't follow the proper protocol. You would be surprised. However, I live in a very high lawsuit state....

    Years ago our community had a chimp escape from his property, injure people and was caught..... not killed and lawsuits still took place from animal owners. And our city doesn't even allow these type of animals.
    How people treat you is their KARMA.... how you REACT is yours!



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,292

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    You don't have to have an animal holding perfectly still for a shot at close range right between the eyes to kill an animal reasonably humanely. Members of zoo escape-response teams don't carry twelve gauges loaded with slugs for crowd control. They'll shoot the animal in question if there is a serious danger that doesn't allow them to use a tranquilizer gun (which is slow-acting and can lead to unpredictable behavior before the animal goes down, not to mention you then have the problem of moving a large drugged animal.) They are not going to be shooting close up, either. Is it as "humane" as a humane killer or a bell gun? Probably not, but it's more humane than a traffic accident. Getting shot from a distance is going to be faster than getting pancaked by a semi or smashing through the windscreen of a family car.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2006
    Posts
    910

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    I think you're all making WAY TOO MUCH of the "5' fence" statement in the article. News media often (OFTEN) get things wrong.

    They did what they had to do. Police officers are not required to have any horse-sense. That isn't what they DO.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2003
    Location
    Iowa, USA
    Posts
    2,269

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    For all of you who say that if only they had some horse sense and a halter in the car, they would have been able to halter those horses. I don't care how big the grain bucket, an amped-up, scared, galloping horse is just not going to suddenly stand for haltering by an equally amped-up stranger in the dark, probably holding flashlights, surrounded by scary squadcar flashing lights and semis going by.

    I'm willing to wager that 95% of us might need more than 20 minutes to catch and halter a scared horse galloping around in a wide-open space. Add to this scenario that at any given minute, the horse might veer into the road and kill people. Yes, the major interstates DO have regular traffic at 2AM-- many truckers prefer those hours to avoid the yahoos driving cars. It's not just a snap thing to get sufficient numbers of troopers in place to safely halt all traffic. On a local highway? Sure, probably could have been done. To expect that a small number of troopers can instantly stop both directions of traffic on a major interstate, while also catching the horses? And every minute this is going on, every car that goes by, people are in serious danger. I think they did the best they could.

    I'm very sorry for the owner, I would be heartbroken too.
    Try to break down crushing defeats into smaller, more manageable failures. It’s also helpful every now and then to stop, take stock of your situation, and really beat yourself up about it.The Onion


    9 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Apr. 17, 2002
    Location
    between the barn and the pond
    Posts
    14,193

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    My own amazing Jake horse that I could do anything with...was in a friend's field with the rest of my horses over the Fourth of July. the neighbors set off fireworks, which upset the horses (no one does that around here- bottle rockets maybe but they were new and by God they had the big stuff). I *stupidly* went out there to check on them, and there I was, out there in the pitch dark with halters and yes- I did manage to get my hands on him when he agreed to come down to a halt and snort and blow and think- but then he blasted off when the next firework blasted off- smashing the side of my foot when he ducked and bolted away. I gave up. I went home, worried, and waited. In the full dark, with all four of them that stirred up- I was going to get hurt, period. And doing anything 'substantive' about it at that point would mean removing them from that pasture ONTO a paved road, with everyone shod all around...to bring them back up to my place.

    Sometimes the IDEAL situation is not the REAL situation.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2010
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    5,786

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    You don't have to have an animal holding perfectly still for a shot at close range right between the eyes to kill an animal reasonably humanely. Members of zoo escape-response teams don't carry twelve gauges loaded with slugs for crowd control. They'll shoot the animal in question if there is a serious danger that doesn't allow them to use a tranquilizer gun (which is slow-acting and can lead to unpredictable behavior before the animal goes down, not to mention you then have the problem of moving a large drugged animal.) They are not going to be shooting close up, either. Is it as "humane" as a humane killer or a bell gun? Probably not, but it's more humane than a traffic accident. Getting shot from a distance is going to be faster than getting pancaked by a semi or smashing through the windscreen of a family car.
    I agree. I mean, I don't think we know enough about this situation to truly know that it was the right choice in that moment - was there space to herd them in another direction, could the owner have been there and the horses would have walked up happily, etc. But I feel for them that I can't imagine it having been the kind of shot you hope a horse being shot would suffer, and really feel for the owner for the loss, too. I don't know - would tranquilizers in the vehicles be a good idea?


    I've wondered how it would apply here, where there are free range laws. I'm not positive if they apply only to cattle or to all livestock, which horses are considered under the law. There are many stories of cattle wandering into traffic, and with free range laws any drivers are responsible to the owner of the cattle if they hit them, not the other way around. (Whether or not that's a good choice with laws is a totally different story - I'm torn in my opinions on it.)
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2006
    Location
    Dallas, NC
    Posts
    2,313

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    You know, if someone had struck one or both horses and that person died, they would have been all over those troopers "why didn't you shoot them?? Why did you continue to let them run around?" and the owner probably would have also been sued.

    I swear I couldn't be a LEO, you're damned if you do damned if you don't.

    And to be honest, I don't CARE if they weren't shot humanly, (I mean I would like it if that would happen, but if if it didn't, get them down and shoot them again with a better shot that is more humane). It's dangerous as hell! They are scared, pumped up, car lights, horns, flashing lights, semi's going by and it's 2 am in the morning. They tried for 20 minutes, that was enough time.

    Tragic, yes, I would have liked to seen them captured, but everyone who is saying why couldn't they contact the owner, I don't think the horses gave them that information as they ran by. A stranger on the road (troopers) probably isn't going to know who owned them or where they came from unless it was blatantly obvious.

    And I doubt it was a 5 foot fence, usually they are 4 feet, and they probably jumped it going to the freeway, I guess they hoped they could jump it going back, or who knows maybe the cut a section open and was trying to herd them through the opening.
    I want a signature but I have nothing original to say except: "STHU and RIDE!!!

    Wonderful COTHER's I've met: belleellis, stefffic, snkstacres and janedoe726.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    May. 23, 2011
    Posts
    1,427

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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianHippo View Post
    For all of you who say that if only they had some horse sense and a halter in the car, they would have been able to halter those horses. I don't care how big the grain bucket, an amped-up, scared, galloping horse is just not going to suddenly stand for haltering by an equally amped-up stranger in the dark, probably holding flashlights, surrounded by scary squadcar flashing lights and semis going by.

    I'm willing to wager that 95% of us might need more than 20 minutes to catch and halter a scared horse galloping around in a wide-open space. Add to this scenario that at any given minute, the horse might veer into the road and kill people. Yes, the major interstates DO have regular traffic at 2AM-- many truckers prefer those hours to avoid the yahoos driving cars. It's not just a snap thing to get sufficient numbers of troopers in place to safely halt all traffic. On a local highway? Sure, probably could have been done. To expect that a small number of troopers can instantly stop both directions of traffic on a major interstate, while also catching the horses? And every minute this is going on, every car that goes by, people are in serious danger. I think they did the best they could.

    I'm very sorry for the owner, I would be heartbroken too.

    This exactly. Horses loose on an interstate with big rigs blowing by are GOING to be amped up before the officers even get there. A deer took out the entire front end of our van this year, and a horse is MUCH bigger. Imagine how bad a wreck that would be. What if a semi jackknifes trying to avoid the horse, only to have a massive multi-car pile-up resulting from it?

    In traffic going at those speeds, you have minutes at most to make a decision. That decision has to factor in the efforts already made/their success levels, and how many human lives these horses are worth. They tried to do what they could, but the clock was very much against them in this situation. For all we know, there was a gate in the five foot fence officers were trying to herd them to. It wouldn't be the first time the media has gotten something wrong.

    Officers are NOT qualified to administer tranquilizers. You can expect them to know the correct dosages, and we all know that some horses react very different to tranquilizers.

    In the dark at 2am, it would be very hard to ID moving horses. They may not have known which horses they were dealing with until they were downed.

    I'm not going to crucify officers because they needed to make a decision when other options had already been exhausted. They had to make a life/death decision, and they put human lives first. It's NOT their fault they couldn't reach a vet. NOT their fault the horses got out in the first place. Sometimes a situation just plain sucks.


    4 members found this post helpful.

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