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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post

    It became illegal to haul slaughter bound horses in double deckers in 2011. Oh, wait a minute...it's up to the mythical USDA enforcement team to ensure haulers comply with that law, never mind.



    I forth!
    Oh Come on! Surely a little thing the like a law designed to be humane to horses being shipped to slaughter should take precedence over PROFIT! Who KNEW???? :-(

    It has been illegal for a LONG time to haul horses for any reason in double deckers in PA and NY and more recently the Federal ban. From the sounds of it, this outfit does it all the time so they have been willfully breaking the law for quite a while. Truly, anyone who can condone this or defend it is truly missing the point. These people have been operating against the law for some time and people continue to withhold blame that this was just an accident and they could not have prevented it.

    Lady Eboshi is right on the money in her comments.

    Of course since unlike the VAST MAJORITY of most horses hauled by their owners, they probably didn't have halters or leads on, that does make it more risky to let them out but I would have done it. No way could I have stood there and let them burn without opening that door so a few could jump out. Perhaps if we didn't allow horses to be crammed into these cattle rigs loose en masse like this in the first place, they could be safely unloaded in the case of an emergency??? This sort of hauling is illegal in Europe. Slaughter horses have to have individual dividers, stalls, halters, etc....for their safety and humane handling. Another one of those DUH sorts of things that will never happen here as it makes too much sense.


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  2. #122
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    That shipper from Kentucky or Tennessee a while who had two separate incidents with shipping slaughter horses--didn't they have 30 horses crammed into a single level trailer? So it evidentally can be done.

    Anyway, I hope that there is something left of the truck/trailer to check for violations and/or overloading. The group above had many violations, as I recall.

    I remember reading that buyers/haulers with a contract to deliver X amount of horses per week get more money per head since the SH can depend on them to deliver.

    My main problem, apart from the terrible accident, is the attempt to whitewash where those horses were headed--not a "rendering plant." Tell it like it really is.



  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You better "pack them in tight", that is the way you are supposed to haul live loads, so the load is not apt to shift on you and turn the trucks over.
    Those trucks have several compartments and if you don't have a full load, you fill the bottom ones full, leave the top ones empty, so the load is tight, won't shift.
    Well, coming from a person who imagines that animals and vegetables are no different, condoning this method of shipment is certainly not surprising.

    Just a guess, but many people may believe this is about more than the physics of "packing" a trailer.


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  4. #124
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    Just learned about this late last night.
    And have ignored the majority of posts on here.
    The point is, it was a horrible fire, and if any one of us were in the immediate vicinity, I believe we would have been sickened by it.

    Not so sure about the passenger gas tank. This news clip now mentions that the back of the trailer collapsed. Before, or after the fire began? But it is much more severely damaged than the front. So doubt there was any way for those horses to be removed.
    http://www.wicz.com/news/video.asp?v....flv&zone=News

    But every instance like this, every long trailer with horses, reminds me of many years ago - as a camp counselor/assistant riding instructor in the Poconos (answered the ad in COTH). The week before camp started, their tractor-trailer brought in two loads (each supposedly could hold 40) of frightened green horses collected by a horse dealer/provider of camp horses based in Carlisle PA. We had a week to determine which horses we could use. Kept about 40-60 of them if I recall. Three of us rode, schooled, cared for (don't even mention the strangles outbreak) the horses, did all the barn work, and taught lessons 6 hours a day, 6 days a week. The kids, of course, all had their favorites.

    It was the hardest work I've ever done. The responsibilities for us were so overwhelming, I almost quit midway through. But pretty much decided to stay on for the kids, and the other two I worked with.

    At the end of the summer, the head riding instructor left camp with the dealer and his crew on the trucks taking the horses out. It was one of those years when there was a meat shortage. You can guess what was in the letter I got from my friend the next week. It literally made me lose lunch.

    I will never forgive that dealer, nor his name. I was still a teen, and he frankly, was the first person I had met who was truly vile, and inappropriate from the beginning. And so was his hired help.

    Nor will I forget how much those horses gave that summer, how several learned so much and became so dependable. All of them were rideable at the end of the summer. Only a few were older, and they were some of the favorites that returned every year. Nor will I forget how much they meant to the children - especially the odd ones out, who didn't fit in, but were darn good at riding?

    I just can't imagine anything other than immediately putting down a horse, rather than subject them to the terror of these kinds of trips. And I'm frankly sick of hearing all of the above justification.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes


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  5. #125
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    http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/a...Kills-6-Horses
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...7-Tragic/page3

    So 6 horses died and they were heading to start racing careers and nobody wished doom upon the drivers for not getting them out??? Why is it different? You would think 6 would be so much easier than 30 to get out but they didn't and couldn't. The only difference is these horses were heading to slaughter so everybody wishes this guy nightmares and such.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole


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  6. #126
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    I'm not saying it's right how they treat these horses and we can say all we want about that but to wish doom on the driver andot knowing the whole story or how he feels about what happened is not right either. If i blame anyone for being an a** it would be the KB because he is the one that made the comment "well if it burned it burned". Sounds like he really cared.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole


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  7. #127
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    I cannot imagine how some people are trying to mitigate this horror in an attempt to defend the slughter industry and the culture around it.

    Horses burned to death. Call them livestock if it makes you feel better. I bet to the horses who burned to death it didn't make them suffer less.

    Do accidents happen to horse being shipped for show, pleasure, and private means? OF COURSE.

    But. This guy and this trailer had KNOW violations.

    And he had 30 horses on the rig. And it's not like this is the first time a slaughter hauler played fast and lose with regulations and the law.
    After all, his goal is to get as many horses per pound, to a place they will be killed. So to him? The insurance check will replace that.

    To the people who lost racehorses? It's not about the check. To the people who lost show horses? Not about the check. Of course there are unethical people in all aspects of the horse industry.
    But lets just say, the bottom feeders? I would imagine the percentage is just a bit higher.
    My big man - April 27, 1986 - September 04, 2008-
    You're with me every moment, my big red horse.

    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting a battle of some kind.


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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVPeg View Post
    Just learned about this late last night.
    And have ignored the majority of posts on here.
    The point is, it was a horrible fire, and if any one of us were in the immediate vicinity, I believe we would have been sickened by it.

    Not so sure about the passenger gas tank. This news clip now mentions that the back of the trailer collapsed. Before, or after the fire began? But it is much more severely damaged than the front. So doubt there was any way for those horses to be removed.
    http://www.wicz.com/news/video.asp?v....flv&zone=News

    But every instance like this, every long trailer with horses, reminds me of many years ago - as a camp counselor/assistant riding instructor in the Poconos (answered the ad in COTH). The week before camp started, their tractor-trailer brought in two loads (each supposedly could hold 40) of frightened green horses collected by a horse dealer/provider of camp horses based in Carlisle PA. We had a week to determine which horses we could use. Kept about 40-60 of them if I recall. Three of us rode, schooled, cared for (don't even mention the strangles outbreak) the horses, did all the barn work, and taught lessons 6 hours a day, 6 days a week. The kids, of course, all had their favorites.

    It was the hardest work I've ever done. The responsibilities for us were so overwhelming, I almost quit midway through. But pretty much decided to stay on for the kids, and the other two I worked with.

    At the end of the summer, the head riding instructor left camp with the dealer and his crew on the trucks taking the horses out. It was one of those years when there was a meat shortage. You can guess what was in the letter I got from my friend the next week. It literally made me lose lunch.

    I will never forgive that dealer, nor his name. I was still a teen, and he frankly, was the first person I had met who was truly vile, and inappropriate from the beginning. And so was his hired help.

    Nor will I forget how much those horses gave that summer, how several learned so much and became so dependable. All of them were rideable at the end of the summer. Only a few were older, and they were some of the favorites that returned every year. Nor will I forget how much they meant to the children - especially the odd ones out, who didn't fit in, but were darn good at riding?

    I just can't imagine anything other than immediately putting down a horse, rather than subject them to the terror of these kinds of trips. And I'm frankly sick of hearing all of the above justification.
    So, you had a bad experience with a terribly run summer camp and now all such are evil places?

    There are plenty of others that have all kinds of stories, some even of well run stables out there.

    What you do is like hearing, say, about how Barney Ward ran his horse business and thinking that is the way all trainers operate.
    Not really.

    Yes, horses have been hauled in trucks many at the time to dude ranches and rodeos and the BLM did so for years, clear to Florida and the East and horses did fine, thank you.

    Those of you that speak so strongly against hauling horses in other than little trailers, have you ever seen a big trailer?
    Somehow I doubt it, but keep patting yourselves on the back for being so well versed about it.



  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandy76 View Post
    I cannot imagine how some people are trying to mitigate this horror in an attempt to defend the slughter industry and the culture around it.

    Horses burned to death. Call them livestock if it makes you feel better. I bet to the horses who burned to death it didn't make them suffer less.

    Do accidents happen to horse being shipped for show, pleasure, and private means? OF COURSE.

    But. This guy and this trailer had KNOW violations.

    And he had 30 horses on the rig. And it's not like this is the first time a slaughter hauler played fast and lose with regulations and the law.
    After all, his goal is to get as many horses per pound, to a place they will be killed. So to him? The insurance check will replace that.

    To the people who lost racehorses? It's not about the check. To the people who lost show horses? Not about the check. Of course there are unethical people in all aspects of the horse industry.
    But lets just say, the bottom feeders? I would imagine the percentage is just a bit higher.
    I cannot imagine how some can use this horrific accident for their anti slaughter agenda.


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  10. #130
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    Oh please. The horses were going to slaughter. Simple. If not, they wouldn't have been on the truck. No truck, no fire. No 30 horses that burned to death.

    This is just another symptom of the culture that surrounds slaughter.

    How many of these things are to be excused before it becomes unacceptable?

    Every time something like this happens the proslaughter people run out with, "well it's not the norm!" But it happens. Often.

    Really. Go to New Holland some day, and tell me that the culture that surrounds this grisly business cares at all for the horse besides a per pound value.

    Look into the eyes of one who has been in the auction pipeline for awhile, and miraculously made it out, and let me know how this is all ok, because the laws are there, and it's a necessary evil, blah, blah, blah.
    This is not all at you, Bluey. Just feeling frustrated.
    My big man - April 27, 1986 - September 04, 2008-
    You're with me every moment, my big red horse.

    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting a battle of some kind.


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  11. #131
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    I'm not a fan of slaughter, I'm not against it either if it was truly overseen and the horses well fare was still a concern. As it is now I'm not a fan. IMO the KB found a way to make money, most were proabaly horse traders and couldn't make money anymore and then went to slaughter instead. I don't agree with the way they care for these animals nor the way they are hauled. I do think that it is a lot more than just a Kb though. Breeders, ESP backyard ones, need to stop breeding! People need to retire their horses and take responsibility for them. Also if an animal is not rideable and no one wants it do the right thing and put it down on your own dime peacefully then shipping them to an auction. This is a society of toss away what doesn't do anything for you anymore. Just saw online the other day someone trying to give away a 26 yr old horse that they grew up riding because they don't want to put it through another summer camp because the horse is old now. Where is the responsibility in that? Where is the, the horse took care of me since I was a kid, I have my own farm and summer camp why can't the horse just retire. Instead its send them on to someone else to take care of an old horse that can't do anything for me anymore and it can walk somebody's child around. But guess what, that somebodys child is going to want to trot and canter one day and then what's going to happen to the now 30 yr old horse? People don't care and you have to look at breeders and owners that have this mentality also. I understand it's hard if you board and have to pay for 2 or 3 horses but if you have your own place people let them retire.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole


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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandy76 View Post
    I cannot imagine how some people are trying to mitigate this horror in an attempt to defend the slughter industry and the culture around it.

    Horses burned to death. Call them livestock if it makes you feel better. I bet to the horses who burned to death it didn't make them suffer less.

    Do accidents happen to horse being shipped for show, pleasure, and private means? OF COURSE.

    But. This guy and this trailer had KNOW violations.

    And he had 30 horses on the rig. And it's not like this is the first time a slaughter hauler played fast and lose with regulations and the law.
    After all, his goal is to get as many horses per pound, to a place they will be killed. So to him? The insurance check will replace that.

    To the people who lost racehorses? It's not about the check. To the people who lost show horses? Not about the check. Of course there are unethical people in all aspects of the horse industry.
    But lets just say, the bottom feeders? I would imagine the percentage is just a bit higher.
    Considering that somebody here pretty openly stated that it would not make her feel as bad if 30 cows had burned to death, go fly a kite.

    You think it's not about the check for show and race owners?

    Good lord, I wish I could see the world through your eyes again!
    You think for a second that the owners would not hold their hand out for insurance money should their steed find his untimely death on a commercial rig?


    Oh my gosh, the ''culture'
    Are you seriously alluding that the dealers in top horse flesh don't deal with 'bottom feeders', as you call them? You think all the old steeds that go through their hands on the way down will be retired to the farm?

    But I suppose it is easiest to dump on the garbage man....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    So, you had a bad experience with a terribly run summer camp and now all such are evil places?

    There are plenty of others that have all kinds of stories, some even of well run stables out there.

    What you do is like hearing, say, about how Barney Ward ran his horse business and thinking that is the way all trainers operate.
    Not really.

    Yes, horses have been hauled in trucks many at the time to dude ranches and rodeos and the BLM did so for years, clear to Florida and the East and horses did fine, thank you.

    Those of you that speak so strongly against hauling horses in other than little trailers, have you ever seen a big trailer?
    Somehow I doubt it, but keep patting yourselves on the back for being so well versed about it.
    The camp was fine.
    The horse dealer who charged them for the horses, paid our salaries, and did what he did to those horses, was, as Brandy so eloquently put it, the bottom feeder. And was well known, and provided hundreds of horses to camps throughout the Northeast.

    I can give you other horror stories of what else he ok'd or didn't. What horses suffered and we had no control over what could be done in the meantime. But that's the point - I saw how they were transported - how they were loaded. How frightened they were, the injuries of the ones we had to pass on. And I damn well know what horses are like being transferred to tracks, at least in New York, Virginia, and Kentucky, and it's a world of difference.

    How dare you question my experience.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes


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  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabicon View Post
    http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/a...Kills-6-Horses
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...7-Tragic/page3

    So 6 horses died and they were heading to start racing careers and nobody wished doom upon the drivers for not getting them out??? Why is it different? You would think 6 would be so much easier than 30 to get out but they didn't and couldn't. The only difference is these horses were heading to slaughter so everybody wishes this guy nightmares and such.
    First of all, the fire started INSIDE the trailer, not outside. Second, did you not read the article you posted the link to?

    One driver suffered burns while trying to save the horses.


    Troopers and the sheriff's department both belief that a discarded cigarette from a passing vehicle, got into an open stall and set some hay on fire.
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  15. #135
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    Oh, and by the way, even the BLM doesn't accept your supported mode of transportation anymore...guess why.

    http://gazette.com/blm-reins-in-wild...article/149324
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes


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  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVPeg View Post
    The camp was fine.
    The horse dealer who charged them for the horses, paid our salaries, and did what he did to those horses, was, as Brandy so eloquently put it, the bottom feeder. And was well known, and provided hundreds of horses to camps throughout the Northeast.

    I can give you other horror stories of what else he ok'd or didn't. What horses suffered and we had no control over what could be done in the meantime. But that's the point - I saw how they were transported - how they were loaded. How frightened they were, the injuries of the ones we had to pass on. And I damn well know what horses are like being transferred to tracks, at least in New York, Virginia, and Kentucky, and it's a world of difference.

    How dare you question my experience.
    Well, I don't "dare" anything, was just saying that your experience was not the only one out there and what else is there.

    I can also tell you bad stories of trainers of all kinds and still I don't go calling all such trainers bad names and saying all are evil?

    You know, wanting to haul horses individually is like wanting to ban all human mass transit, no more busses or trains, everyone now needs to go places in individual cars, much more comfortable and safe.
    No more school buses, no more bus accidents that kill many.

    Does that make much sense?



  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVPeg View Post
    Oh, and by the way, even the BLM doesn't accept your supported mode of transportation anymore...guess why.

    http://gazette.com/blm-reins-in-wild...article/149324
    Guess why?
    Because it is not PC to be stalked and assaulted by animal rights protesters, not because it was not a good way to haul the horses.

    Animal rights extremist have an agenda, to eliminate all uses of animals, one at the time.
    I am sure they are very happy to have done that and are onto their next task, until those they whip into frenzies to do their bidding, that still have not caught onto their ultimate agenda, wonder where their rights to have animals went.



  18. #138
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    The Bureau of Land Management announced Friday it has severely restricted sales of protected wild horses to guard against mustangs being resold to slaughter.

    The changes come in response to an investigation by the non-profit news organization ProPublica, published in The Gazette in September, that questioned the fate of animals sold to a San Luis Valley livestock hauler named Tom Davis who bought more than 1,700 horses through the program since 2009.

    Davis maintains he found the animals what he called “good homes,” but wild-horse advocates fear they ended up in Mexican slaughterhouses.

    An estimated 35,000 wild horses roam public lands in the West. Another 47,000 live in BLM corrals and pastures. The BLM has been unable to find enough people to adopt the wild horses in its care and has used its sale program to unload thousands of unwanted horses for $10 each.

    Buyers of wild horses are not allowed to resell them to slaughter, but for years the BLM did little to check that buyers kept their word.

    Now, buyers will be allowed to purchase only four horses every six months unless they have special approval from top BLM officials. Buyers also must tell the BLM where agents can find the horses for six months after the purchase.

    “Today’s announcement marks another step forward in our agency’s steady improvement in ensuring the health and humane treatment of wild horses and burros, both on and off the range,” said BLM Acting Director Mike Pool.

    Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar outlined the reforms in December during an exclusive interview with The Gazette.

    The new policy also requires that buyers ship horses from BLM corals themselves. In the past the BLM would truck more than 20 horses at no charge. Davis was able to repeatedly pay about $330 per load of horses the BLM spent more than $4,000 to ship.


    The ProPublica report prompted the BLM to open an investigation into Davis in June.

    The investigation was taken over by the Interior Department’s independent Inspector General in October when it became clear that people in the agency could come under scrutiny too. In December The Gazette was contacted by a man who said he is an agent with “a federal law enforcement agency” who said the agency, which he would not identify, was also investigating possible wrong-doing by Davis. As a result of the report, Davis is also under investigation by the district attorney in Alamosa for breaking Colorado brand inspection laws.
    Interesting how the taxpayers were subsidizing the cost of shipping to Davis.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Which group would rub it's hands in glee to have one more chance to use such terrible accident for their agenda?
    Everyone would feel exactly the same way if these horses were the field of the kentucky derby, kids horses with loving homes or the queen of englands animals. 30 animal crammed in any transport is sketch, even if it dosn't catch on fire. Oh and even pro slaughter people think kill buyers are sketchy, even kill buyers tend to think other kill buyers are animals. Don't understand all the love thats shown for this subculture here, its kinda sick. I guess if you love torturing animals because thats all those creatures see. I mean when a average load of 9 comes off a four horse and two have inches deep bull whip scars, all are injured from transport and at least half are so scared of people you cant touch them for a week? Yup those guys are great. They dont even come up with excuses for themselves, and they will through each other the bus. Just because they have the right to do buisness, does not mean anyone has to like it, And those that do not have the right to speak out against it.


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  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabicon View Post
    I'm not a fan of slaughter, I'm not against it either if it was truly overseen and the horses well fare was still a concern.
    Well, with this many middle men, things can happen. Yes.
    As it is now I'm not a fan.
    No, the way it is now it sucks. But then again, the way it is now id the direct result of a certain group of people lobbying with half truths and lies and emotional propaganda.
    IMO the KB found a way to make money, most were probably horse traders and couldn't make money anymore and then went to slaughter instead.
    I am pretty sure they don't exclusively deal in slaughter. The market is only about 100k horses a year and more than one outfit is working on it. So all things considered, the niche is rather small. And while the per pound price neatly wrapped might be something to talk about, I don't think the price on hoof exeeds a dollar at this time. The load was probably worth around 15-20K.
    I don't agree with the way they care for these animals nor the way they are hauled.
    I don't see a lot wrong with the big trailers. As Bluey has pointed out, you have to load a trailer a certain way or you are in trouble! Correct me if I am wrong, but I do seem to recall flipped trailers because the horse inside moved around, small rigs. As to care: The horses are a commodity. They won't be worth a penny when they reach the packing plant beat up and skinny. They won't be babied, bathed, etc...
    I do think that it is a lot more than just a Kb though. Breeders, ESP backyard ones, need to stop breeding!
    Check registration numbers over the last 6 years. They have dropped significantly, all around. However, this puts us into this misery of who gets to decide who, where what and when gets to breed. Most breeders are BYBs with one mare, maybe two. Of course, we could push for laws to restrict that, but that would be un-American....BTW, I think that we will see the backlash of the dropping registration numbers here in the near future.*
    People need to retire their horses and take responsibility for them.
    Most people do. But for some it's an economical impossibility. The bottom line does become important if you want to stay in business - or off of welfare!
    Also if an animal is not rideable and no one wants it do the right thing and put it down on your own dime peacefully then shipping them to an auction.
    What would all the people do with the rescue syndrome? BTW, you didn't get the memo: all horses at NH are perfectly sound, just hard on their luck that thir special person has not found them yet. (BTW, you don't HAVE to slaughter a horse from NH...)
    This is a society of toss away what doesn't do anything for you anymore.
    well, actually that is the argument that goes around the other way as well: The carcass is a commodity, worth something to somebody. Meat, leather, glue, lubricants.....it's a long list of things provided from horse slaughter. I even read something went to open heart surgery...but sadly I can't find that list again. so putting the critter down and burying it on the back forty is still just throwing it out.
    Just saw online the other day someone trying to give away a 26 yr old horse that they grew up riding because they don't want to put it through another summer camp because the horse is old now. Where is the responsibility in that?
    Thank the bleeding hearts for that: You kill the damned horse you are a big fat meany! The beast still breaths and eats and isn't three legged lame it's cruel to kill it. can't win on this one.
    Where is the, the horse took care of me since I was a kid, I have my own farm and summer camp why can't the horse just retire.
    because it's a business. They have to spend as much on the old fellow as they do on one they can us. If they hang on to all of them, they can close their doors and all of the string are up for grabs.
    Instead its send them on to someone else to take care of an old horse that can't do anything for me anymore and it can walk somebody's child around. But guess what, that somebodys child is going to want to trot and canter one day and then what's going to happen to the now 30 yr old horse?
    Again...you can't win in this game. There is in horse care a thread about somebody asking if it's ok to put the 25 yo pasture ornament down because funds are getting tight. 'find a rescue' was one of the suggestions....as if the system was meant to provide retirement if you can't pull the trigger yourself. Pun not intended.But see above: You kill the horse before it's obviously well past time, you are cruel.
    People don't care and you have to look at breeders and owners that have this mentality also. I understand it's hard if you board and have to pay for 2 or 3 horses but if you have your own place people let them retire.
    it's a business. For the ones that are special, yes, there will be a home. But they can't keep all of them.

    Besides, space is becoming an increasing issue, also, with horses now routinely living well into their 30s....If I were to start breeding now, I am having my doubts I could promise to take the get back once it's done. I don't think nursing homes do allow horses as residents...most balk at cats and dogs!


    We have reached this impass here: You can't sell a horse you own, you can't kill it unless it's past saving, all you can do is give it away, but be aware, if it ends up at auction, you are evil for ever having a hand on it.
    I know, nobody wants to hear it, but it's the AR machinery at work: slowly eroding the usage, changing the vocabulary and mindset.
    There is the 'bred for slaughter' idea. I think neatly put to rest by the dairy cow example. Laying hens are there as well, either will end up in a pot once their intended use is over with.
    But in the olden days we had more respect for food. Because we knew were it came from, what went into it, and that the animal gave it's life to nourish us.
    Food has become something like enemy number one. Don't eat this, or that, avoid such, at all cost....
    There is a lot of hysteria about. But maybe we should adopt a little more of the 4H approach: The ids raise their animals, care for them, love them even, then when it's time the animal will serve it's intended purpose. They can either sell it or make room in their own freezer. (oh crap, they are kind to the animals before thy kill them...)

    * The constant harping on the evil of breeding is slowly but surely catching a strong hold in the minds of the industry. But eventually it will bite us in the backside. There have been many good breeders who threw in the towel, not many young ones are picking up the slack. I see a very bleek future for us who wish to buy a horse, especially on a lower budget. Availability dictates price. And with non being bred, you can guess were that is going.
    But it has long since been a strategy of those certain groups to eliminate use of horses (any animal actually). Making horses a luxury item only serves the purpose, as in this dictatorship of the masses, the rich elite will be easier to single out and legislate out of existence.
    And of course the rest of us will be relegated to use up the grumbs (AKA rejects) as long as there are any to be had.


    (but really, throw a paragraph in now and then, it makes following your thoughts a little easier)


    but the topic should be "What can be done t make big rigs safer"
    not 'I hope he rots in hell because he hauled horses'
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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