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  1. #101
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    and a commercial shipper would probably have tried to get the valuable cargo out... heck... slaughter bound horses were going to die anyway... sad, very sad... commercially transported horses are not sent loose either and/or have halters on them too.


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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I would hope that a commercial shipper wouldn't have had the truck was pulled over in New York on March 13, 2013 and ordered out of service until repairs and maintenance could be performed Or nine violations in 2011, one of which was a discharged or unsecured fire extinguisher.
    thank god you are blissfully unaware of the DOT violations those other millions of trucks on the road rake up at any given time.

    There is a reason I am rather behind a big rig than in front.....

    But you are right, it's a traffic violation, not a slaughter issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett


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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    and a commercial shipper would probably have tried to get the valuable cargo out... heck... slaughter bound horses were going to die anyway... sad, very sad... commercially transported horses are not sent loose either and/or have halters on them too.
    and you still can't get 16 horses off a truck with one or two people on board....
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/trai...ticle-1.116138

    a bit of a different scenario...since the trailer caught fire, not the truck....

    To put it mildly: You cannot turn 16 or 30 horses lose at 8AM on the interstate.
    Please do try, tell me how it works for you....especially after you get arrested for attempted and actual manslaughter, when the horses cause massive wrecks....


    But yes, your horses all follow you goose stepping from a burning trailer....all....one of them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett


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  4. #104
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    Very tragic. Poor horses. No matter what animal it is. No matter if it was cows headed to slaughter, or rabbits going to wherever they go. Doesn't matter. For any creature to be burned alive is horrible. It does happen often though and that's the sad part. There are barn firs where animals die, and some of those fires are to BNTs and breeders but it happens. Tragic and horrible. If it were my horses or anyone's horses and I saw this I'd try to help save them but your talking a few horses. How in the world could he get 30 horses out? What would he do with them? Just let them run free down the interstate and possibly kill people driving on the interstate? If it was some back country road then maybe you could let them go and hope for the best but idk what you would do with that many horses on a busy highway. Of he would have let those horses out and they ran down the road and ran into a car or a car hit one and it killed the people in the car he would be charged and then living with the fact that he killed someone. Idk if he is cold hearted and didn't care or if it really bothered him but you have to think logically in the situations. You can't just risk human lives by setting that many horses free to run off.

    We have a pony that was in a trailer accident before we got him. Trailer and truck flipped off interstate 20. Trailer unhooked from truck flipped a few more times and stopped. They got the horses that could get out out and tied them to a guard rail on the interstate until help could get the horses. These horses were secured and couldn't cause any harm. This was a loaded trailer coming from auction. I believe they said 16 to 20 horses in the trailer. Wasn't going to slaughter though going to a trader. Anyways, a cidents happen and you have to think what you can do in that moment the best you can. Maybe he was in a panic and thought help would be there sooner, maybe he didn't care, maybe he is crying about his truck, or maybe he is having nightmares for the horses. Who's to say. I don't care how many violations he has that doesn't mean he is the next Hannibal people. Maybe not smart and thinks he is above the law, or it won't happen to him is possible but that doesn't mean he is evil.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole


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  5. #105
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    I think someone being charged with "attempted manslaughter" is as preposterous as the idea of letting 30 horses loose on the highway. *rolls eyes*

    There is no ramp on those trailers.


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  6. #106
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    What puzzles me is why an aluminum trailer would burn, when the fire was in the cab?

    At most it may have melted in the front from the heat, but the whole trailer burning down?
    Unless it exploded and sent fuel all over it ...



  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    What puzzles me is why an aluminum trailer would burn, when the fire was in the cab?

    At most it may have melted in the front from the heat, but the whole trailer burning down?
    Unless it exploded and sent fuel all over it ...
    Sadly shavings , hay and fur/flesh are all very flammable.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    and a commercial shipper would probably have tried to get the valuable cargo out... heck... slaughter bound horses were going to die anyway... sad, very sad... commercially transported horses are not sent loose either and/or have halters on them too.
    Again please detail how one person should have gotten up to 30 horses out of the trailer on the interstate?

    Perhaps they should have been led off one by one and tied to the guard rails where i'm sure they would have peacefully stood among the traffic , burning vehicle , sirens.

    What is most telling to me is there hasn't been a single witness statement as of yet as in so and so pulled over to help this LONE person with a vehicle full of livestock that was on FIRE.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mali View Post
    The driver is probably lamenting the loss of this semi truck more than the trailer with horses. I would imagine that the truck was probably worth more money than the load. Can anybody pipe up with a projected value of the 30 horses? How is it still economically feasible to be in the "business" with the cost of fuel and the logistics of trucking to the US borders? How much does the slaughterhouses pay per lbs?
    Exactly. This is what I keep saying about a "marginal" business barely viable, hence mostly practiced by a few fly-by-nights. At current prices, you can pretty much assume each horse on the trailer had been purchased for $75--$250. Add in the fuel and the driver's pay, and you'd be damned lucky to see a $50 profit each at the plant. Since they really don't want drafters or ponies, let's average the plant-value of each horse at (generously), say $175.00.

    Now you understand why they don't maintain their equipment tip-top?

    HOW MANY MORE?


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  10. #110
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    Default Outstanding!!

    Excellent.

    And at the end of the day, yes it was an accident. BUT.
    Never would have happened if there were no large scale commercial slaughter.

    And after all, this guy, shipper, I have a feeling the horses other than their monetary value, were of no consequence to him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    I'm sure he DID. For obvious financial reasons, barring all the rest. No driver I can ever imagine wouldn't be trying his damndest. A good friend of mine who used to drive vans with some of the most valuable showjumpers in the country damn near had the same thing happen once--he said to this day it was THE scariest moments of his entire life. Fortunately, in his case the extinguishers did the job.

    What bothers me is that there SHOULD, on all 18-wheelers, be some kind of emergency de-coupler, on the idea of our small trailer breakaways only rigged to some kind of air-cylinder charge that, if detonated by the driver in an emergency, would instantly drop the jacks and release the fifth-wheel so the burning "cab" could be gotten away from the trailer. Particularly with live cargo. Engineering types, here's a problem to solve--your name can be on the patent so that this NEVER has to happen again!

    Now, To the Usual Suspects:

    The slaughter-bound industry is known to be infested with notoriously not-nice human beings. Fact. They are minimally motivated to provide anything like safe and adequate care and transport for these animals. Fact. There are laws on the books for years that are not being enforced, in part because these guys know how to make literal end-runs around them. Fact. There are a whole lot of us out here, the vast majority, who don't want to see ANY animal, be it cow, pig, or horse, suffer preventably on the way to becoming someone's chow. Fact. In the United States, horses are seen primarily as companion animals that have not been eaten in our culture(except by the starving in wartime) for over 350 years. Fact.

    It is also a fact that a lot of us would stand up and cheer the day that the AAEP, the AQHA, the Jockey Club, and each and every other breed, show, and racing association in America would come out in condemnation of this archaic, cruel and indefensible and industry. Please don't give me that tired argument about disposal, anyplace there's demand there can be a renderer. Very green!

    OWNERS are the problem. I've got some solutions, but a lot of people won't like 'em. There ARE exceptions to these, but those only prove the rule. Want to do something TANGIBLE to "Save" the horses from slaughter? Well:

    (1) Breeding should be left to qualified professionals with quality stock--not backyard amateurs with a lame or idle or unrideable mare. With rare exceptions, stallions should be gelded. No "running 'im with the mares."

    (2) If you don't have the money to properly care for a horse, with all that entails, please, please don't buy one. Ditto for ponies, minis, donkeys. A certain baseline of knowledge, facility and finance are required. These are not TOYS.

    (3) If you don't have the chops OR the money to have your horse properly put down by the vet when its time comes, maybe you're not strong enough to be a horse owner. Stop outsourcing it to dealers who dump them at KB auctions!

    (4) About time someone gave the Amish some very, very bad publicity for their charming habit of dumping their lame, sick or old horses at New Holland and the like. Not so pretty-pretty pastoral and Christian-sweet quaint after all, is it? Maybe they need some peer pressure from the rest of us in the horse industry to make a more responsible choice!

    (5) I know the race-tracks are making an effort these days; we need to support CANTER and the others by BUYING and USING the horses. I still remember the days when Working Hunters were nearly 100% OTTB's--we can do that AGAIN!

    (6) Raise your children with awareness that even meat animals, purpose-raised, are sentient beings who throughout their brief lives feel pain, hunger, heat, cold, and fear. They are as alive as we are until they become our meat and an attitude of respectful stewardship and reasonable compassion MUST be the normal operating behavior of their handlers--OR ELSE!!!

    Before you call me a RARA--if there wasn't a problem, they wouldn't have any grist for their propaganda mill. I am not a member of any of them, but I'd LIKE to be proud to call myself a member of the human species, and lately it's tough.

    Ya gotta problem with any of that, BRING IT!
    My big man - April 27, 1986 - September 04, 2008-
    You're with me every moment, my big red horse.

    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting a battle of some kind.



  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Again please detail how one person should have gotten up to 30 horses out of the trailer on the interstate?

    Perhaps they should have been led off one by one and tied to the guard rails where i'm sure they would have peacefully stood among the traffic , burning vehicle , sirens.

    What is most telling to me is there hasn't been a single witness statement as of yet as in so and so pulled over to help this LONE person with a vehicle full of livestock that was on FIRE.
    Horses are not "led" onto trailers like this--they are DRIVEN, through chutes and up ramps, and that process of packing them in the truck is in itself extremely stressful and dangerous for all concerned. Many horses panic, slip, plunge, flip while trying to escape. Often the aggressive and studs are packed in there too, with predicable results. They pack 'em in so tight, aside from the maximum dollar value, so they can't move enough to hurt each other.

    These trucks do not always even have "ramps." Instead, they're backed up to another chute or dock at the loading and unloading points. Short of opening the back doors and allowing panicked animals to fall out, a considerable distance off the top tier of a cattle truck, which would kill them anyway, there probably wasn't much he could have done. The one operative thing would have been to separate the cab from the trailer, but with the near-side fuel tank on fire, would YOU have jumped up on the chassis and started jerking out hydraulic lines and pulling pins? THAT'S why I say there should be an automatic emergency release for situations like this. What if he'd been hauling DYNAMITE?

    Another factor is that most people who have not experienced very intense training, such as firemen or the military, will FREEZE from the adrenaline response in such a situation. Your hands shake, you can become incoherent, you literally can have a brain-freeze and be unable to function at all. No person who has not experienced something that bad should judge this driver. We don't expect as we roll down the road to suddenly be thrust into the middle of HELL.
    Do you really think YOU would have done better?

    I reserve my condemnation for the people whose mercenary decision-making put those horses on that truck to begin with.

    Here's another thing we all can do:

    Your trainer, your kid's camp, the lesson-stable down the road, the dealer you bought your last horse from: Have you ever ASKED them what happens to their oldies, the ones who go lame or are unsaleable for some reason? ASK THEM, and don't accept euphemisms and platitudes! We need to make it SOCIALLY UNACCEPTABLE for commercial operators (major offenders) to dump horses to the KB's. It was the norm years ago; it NEED NOT BE if WE keep up the pressure.


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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Sadly shavings , hay and fur/flesh are all very flammable.
    If that was a double decker, by the number of horses I expect so, there should not have been any bedding there, it just blows around.

    If it was a big truck, those trucks you have to back to a chute to unload, you can't just jump them off that high, about 4', onto asphalt, without horses splattering on impact.
    Maybe on dirt, but not on something slick.

    You better "pack them in tight", that is the way you are supposed to haul live loads, so the load is not apt to shift on you and turn the trucks over.
    Those trucks have several compartments and if you don't have a full load, you fill the bottom ones full, leave the top ones empty, so the load is tight, won't shift.
    That is one place where "giving them more room" would be a mistake.
    It is not about the money, but how you haul horses or cattle the safest.


    As for maintenance, you can have the newest truck off the lot have the same happen to, that is why those are accidents.
    You can't tell something may malfunction until it does.
    No one wants to go driving a truck down the road knowing it is not sound to do that.
    Truck drivers really are not suicidal.



  13. #113
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    Lady Eboshi....<sounds of thunderous applause>
    Join the Clinton 2016 campaign...Hillary For America. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/


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  14. #114
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    Lady Eboshi - I second LauraKy with thunderous applause!!!
    My big man - April 27, 1986 - September 04, 2008-
    You're with me every moment, my big red horse.

    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone is fighting a battle of some kind.


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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Lady Eboshi....<sounds of thunderous applause>
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandy76 View Post
    Lady Eboshi - I second LauraKy with thunderous applause!!!
    Well, I say not so much applause, she didn't know what she was talking about, sorry, already explained why.

    Better not talk about what we don't know anything about, here hauling livestock.



  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Well, I say not so much applause, she didn't know what she was talking about, sorry, already explained why.

    Better not talk about what we don't know anything about, here hauling livestock.
    Well, that's really funny, [edit], because your post above just seconded everything I said about loading a possum-belly! And you should certainly know . . .
    Last edited by Moderator 1; May. 8, 2013 at 09:55 PM.


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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandy76 View Post
    Lady Eboshi - I second LauraKy with thunderous applause!!!
    I third!


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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Sadly shavings , hay and fur/flesh are all very flammable.
    The horses were headed to slaughter, not to a show or someone's farm. Do you really believe slaughter bound horses get so stand on soft shavings and munch on hay during their trip?


    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    If that was a double decker, by the number of horses I expect so,
    It became illegal to haul slaughter bound horses in double deckers in 2011. Oh, wait a minute...it's up to the mythical USDA enforcement team to ensure haulers comply with that law, never mind.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Sadly shavings , hay and fur/flesh are all very flammable.
    The horses were headed to slaughter, not to a show or someone's farm. Do you really believe slaughter bound horses get so stand on soft shavings and munch on hay during their trip?


    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    If that was a double decker, by the number of horses I expect so,
    It became illegal to haul slaughter bound horses in double deckers in 2011. Oh, wait a minute...it's up to the mythical USDA enforcement team to ensure haulers comply with that law, never mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by SMF11 View Post
    I third!
    I forth!
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Here's another thing we all can do:

    Your trainer, your kid's camp, the lesson-stable down the road, the dealer you bought your last horse from: Have you ever ASKED them what happens to their oldies, the ones who go lame or are unsaleable for some reason? ASK THEM, and don't accept euphemisms and platitudes! We need to make it SOCIALLY UNACCEPTABLE for commercial operators (major offenders) to dump horses to the KB's. It was the norm years ago; it NEED NOT BE if WE keep up the pressure.
    I very much agree with this comment.
    Also applauding Lady E
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell


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