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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
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    Hannover, Germany
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    3,742

    Default What so you think ?

    Is there a market for a dilute colored WB foal/horse (palomino or buckskin) with OLD brand out of an SPS mare with very good scores, show record (in hand and dressage) plus good known bloodlines ?
    We debate over that a bit right now with breeding decisions ...
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 18, 2001
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    Here and there
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    5,490

    Default

    There is always a market for a well bred foal. Color is a bonus and will attract some extra attention...
    Not all who wander are lost.

    Ralando II


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Upper Midwest
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    5,832

    Default

    I have a friend who paid a fair amount of money, and about as much for months of training, for a palomino with papers that I don't think every surfaced--and she rides dressage. I suspect the color had a lot to do with it, BUT it was also really (probably more) important to her that it be amatuer friendly. The horse is very pleasant to be around--a real sweetie. She also didn't want a giant. There is a growing segment of 50+ year olds around me who are looking for beautiful, enjoyable smaller WBs for dressage. BUT they have to be quiet.

    Actually I just remembered I have two friends who bought colored horses in the last five years. The other was a buckskin. She was going second level however, so that was more of the factor there. But I think the color helped with her value (she was cross bred). It definitely got her a legion of fans.

    What I'm saying is, I think you are probably going after the ammie segment of the market that loves a fun colored dun, buckskin, palomino, (I too secretly would love a Barbie horse--Barbie had a palomio, btw) but it is really important to that particular market that it be a quiet horse too.

    A pro isn't going to care about the color, they want to win. So if it is that level of horse, then the color really won't matter as much (kind of icing on the cake).

    Just my random thoughts on adding color to the equation for breeding for dressage. I think looks matter a lot to a lot of people. I mean look at ____ insert-breed-that-brings-high-prices-and-has-you-scratching-your-head of your choice. This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/


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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2002
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    8,311

    Default

    Some will want just that because of the coloring with the good mare, while others will steer clear of it because of the coloring.


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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    19,989

    Default

    I never liked buckskins and the like as I equated them with cow horses in my mind. Lots of well respected WB breeders seem to be going in that direction however so I must be in the minority. Their foals are lovely but still cow horses to me.


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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2004
    Location
    Central Florida
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    4,066

    Default

    I think there is a market. Gwen has certainly sold a few. I even had one and want another but it is way too expensive to go over the pond right now. Some of the breeders here have nice foals and I don't have to import. (Although I have decided to get into knabbies and hope I get a filly because I want a dilute Knabbie one day)
    *^*^*^
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 1, 2008
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    4,871

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    Lots of well respected WB breeders seem to be going in that direction however so I must be in the minority.
    No, you're not.

    Even most AQHA trainers/owners really don't like them for rail horses. Working horses? Maybe.
    Fan of the Swedish Chef


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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
    Posts
    9,550

    Default

    I would think a very good and well-bred dilute colored foal by a well-regarded stallion out of an SPS mare would certainly command interest. I don't know how much interest you would get in Germany, but there are folks in NA who love dilutes and are willing to pay extra just for the coloring. I am not sure, however, how many would want to pay "double extra" for both color AND top quality, so your success in marketing such a foal might depend on how you price it.

    Good luck - sounds like an interesting decision.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    Default

    Avalon and Glenhill both have incredible dilute foals this spring. Not my cup of tea but you can easily see how nice they are.


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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
    Location
    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
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    Default

    A pro isn't going to care about the color, they want to win. So if it is that level of horse, then the color really won't matter as much (kind of icing on the cake).
    And on this point I will respectfully disagree ...

    One of the really anticipated foals for 2013 by my Guaranteed Gold (cremello TB) stallion is owned by an FEI level dressage trainer / rider / coach. The dam is by Liberty Gold (grand champion at Devon several years ago) and out of Bernina (by Bantor). She was Champion mare at her AHS inspection and eligible Elite. She is also destined for the GP dressage ring if all goes well with her owner, who wanted to give her a year off to mature and develop some more before continuing her training.

    She REALLY wanted a palomino baby out of this mare to bring up through the ranks in later years. Not just "A" palomino, but one that actually had the possibility of hitting the higher levels. The filly was born last week and she had this to say about her:

    For your customers of warmblood mares: she is BIG. I was expecting a smaller more TB cross look, probably show huntery which would have been okay, but I hit the jackpot for me. She looks all Warmblood. Just as big and tall as any of my babies. Very large joints and long ears like her mother. PERFECT for a future dressage horse. She truly a palomino warmblood.
    So - in this case, you have a very educated and experienced Upper Level rider / breeder / owner that knew exactly what she wanted to produce, and is very pleased with the outcome - thus far.

    I believe it it extremely short and narrow sighted to rule out people that want colour in their breeding / training / showing programs by saying "Oh! Its only the AMMIES that focus on colour, not someone who actually KNOWS what they are doing!"

    Not the case at all with what I have seen myself - personally - and what I see with others that have colour in their breeding programs. Its just simply one more component that is very important to some and not so much for others

    Another mare that is being bred to my stallion this year is the dam of an FEI level dressage horse that competed at the Pan Am Games. Another mare is an imported Elite Hanoverian mare that was long (or maybe short???) listed for our Canadian dressage team. 3 separate very educated owners.

    Surely they ALL cant be blinded by the colour factor ???



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2005
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    Some where in the middle of nowhere.
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    3,640

    Default

    Goldhope farm has some lovely colored WB's with modern successful sport horse pedigrees.
    http://www.goldhopefarm.com/
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2010
    Posts
    606

    Default

    Well everything else being equal I would most definitely choose a dilute horse over any other color. I love palominos and buckskins and to get one that is well-bred, has a nice temperament, and can move would just totally rock my world.


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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Waterford, VA USA
    Posts
    4,900

    Default

    Alexandra, the problem is that an "odd" colored horse sticks out and judges remember them. Unless the horse is super talented, most serious dressage riders don't want the extra attention. Just my opinion.....
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.


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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2010
    Location
    nevada
    Posts
    290

    Default

    I think its an interesting question. I am an ammie, personally don't like color, also personally don't like greys, but I have a fabulous grey! (Well, usually mud brown); so color didn't enter in my decision to buy. I look for the qualities that are important to me (gaits, disposition, attitude), and take whatever color it comes in!


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  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Upper Midwest
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    5,832

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TrueColours View Post
    And on this point I will respectfully disagree ...

    One of the really anticipated foals for 2013 by my Guaranteed Gold (cremello TB) stallion is owned by an FEI level dressage trainer / rider / coach. The dam is by Liberty Gold (grand champion at Devon several years ago) and out of Bernina (by Bantor). She was Champion mare at her AHS inspection and eligible Elite. She is also destined for the GP dressage ring if all goes well with her owner, who wanted to give her a year off to mature and develop some more before continuing her training.

    She REALLY wanted a palomino baby out of this mare to bring up through the ranks in later years. Not just "A" palomino, but one that actually had the possibility of hitting the higher levels. The filly was born last week and she had this to say about her:



    So - in this case, you have a very educated and experienced Upper Level rider / breeder / owner that knew exactly what she wanted to produce, and is very pleased with the outcome - thus far.

    I believe it it extremely short and narrow sighted to rule out people that want colour in their breeding / training / showing programs by saying "Oh! Its only the AMMIES that focus on colour, not someone who actually KNOWS what they are doing!"

    Not the case at all with what I have seen myself - personally - and what I see with others that have colour in their breeding programs. Its just simply one more component that is very important to some and not so much for others

    Another mare that is being bred to my stallion this year is the dam of an FEI level dressage horse that competed at the Pan Am Games. Another mare is an imported Elite Hanoverian mare that was long (or maybe short???) listed for our Canadian dressage team. 3 separate very educated owners.

    Surely they ALL cant be blinded by the colour factor ???
    I feel like you are actually agreeing with most of what I said and not disagreeing? I never said color was the deciding factor for anyone, except possibly for one friend who specifically purchased a horse based on color and temperment (it's what she did--we all buy based on what is important to us). But because she knows her own abilities she focused on temperment.

    Let me rephrase, most of the pros I know pick a competition horse based on the one in front of them and want something that will win/ be competitive at high levels and color isn't the focal point. Like I said, a nice color would be "icing on the cake." Of course, most of the pros I know, are not the ones buying the horses they ride, their clients are. It could be different elsewhere. I can only comment on what I have seen. Most of them don't buy lots of foals either (some), but that has just been my observation. There is more money in buying a horse under saddle and selling it to another trainer or client after you put some mileage on it. I do think that there are a lot of ammies out there who are perhaps more interested in color than MOST pros are, but they also want temperment. This is not a bad thing.

    I never said ammies are uneducated or my friends were uneducated because they bought colored horses. What I said was I think it helped the horses value--which is what Alexandria is looking at, I assume.

    I am an ammie too. I think I mentioned I would like a nice palomino. If all things were equal, and I was looking at buying horse A or horse B, color would be the tipping point. I was not attacking colored horses, but you seem to take it that way. I'm sorry, that was not my intent.
    Last edited by TrotTrotPumpkn; May. 8, 2013 at 11:32 AM.
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
    Location
    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
    Posts
    4,408

    Default

    TTP - no! Sorry! Didnt mean it to come out that way against you and/or what you said at all. I actually LIKED your post!

    It just seems to be never ending - the comments that if you want pinto, or dilute, or grey or black with 4 stockings and a blaze you must not be a serious competitor and are buying for looks alone. SO wrong on so many counts

    Just like there are those who covet a beautiful unmarked seal brown dappled hunter, there are those who want colours. They want the movement and the temperament and the athletic ability and they have chosen to search and spend their money on a specific colour with specific markings. Doesnt make them any better or worse a rider than the next person for doing so ...

    Goldhope farm has some lovely colored WB's
    Sorry. Would not touch Lauren Efford with a 10 foot pole or recommend her either. She lied through her teeth to me and 4 others, lied in writing, lied verbally and the end result was that the 5 offspring she sold had their registration papers yanked 2-3 years later. I lost about $40,000 - $50,000 compliments of Lauren Efford and Goldhope Farm plus untold thousands in future stud fee revenues. She still leaves a horrid taste in my mouth and anytime her name comes up I make it a point of telling how much money she screwed me out of and then hid behind her lawyer and wouldnt do a thing about it. Except try and sue the registry instead ...

    IMO and experience - stay far far away from Lauren Efford and whatever she is selling ...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    35,868

    Default

    Yes, there is always that market. Where you turn off some because of the color, you will attract some because of the color.

    There are some folks who have always been and always will be anti-color, as they are serious traditionalist. There are some who have always been against color, but are being swayed. Some have always been about it, and even have gone so far as to lie about the horse's history as to where the color came from (ie if it came from a *gasp* Paint, they'd say it was a warmblood of unknown pedigree, or the like).

    There ARE upper level colored horses - both dilutes and spots - in pretty much every discipline now. I'm sure some were bought because of that, and some bought despite that. I'm also sure some have been turned down because of the color (on both sides of the issue).
    ______________________________
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Upper Midwest
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    5,832

    Default

    What are the bloodlines of the proposed cross, if I may ask? Just curious who the stallion is.
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/


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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
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    Upper Midwest
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    Default

    p.s. your box is full. I tried to answer.
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2008
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    602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Home Again Farm View Post
    Some will want just that because of the coloring with the good mare, while others will steer clear of it because of the coloring.
    Agree with Home Again Farm.



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