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  1. #61
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    Jul. 18, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACMEeventing View Post
    Sounds likes juvenile antics to me, FWIW.

    Since he already understands the lunge line well and cooperates while on it, I would have a ground person lunge him with you in the saddle...
    +1
    I have had a few youngsters like this, and recently served as the ground-person for a friend's filly with similar inclinations. My problem children were just babies experimenting with what they could get away with, but the recent filly seemed to have real difficulty understanding the concept of forward when under-saddle. She'd had quite a bit of lunge line work and was very responsive to verbal commands, but couldn't seem to extrapolate this to under-saddle work and pressure from the rider just wigged her out.

    We began with riding on the lunge - rider steering and using leg/voice to encourage forward, with the ground-person and lunge whip to reinforce as needed. Then progressed to riding off the line but with continued support as needed from the person on the ground. This person should be experienced with young horses and have very good timing. No cowboy antics or whip-cracking, just consistent and immediate reinforcement of forward as needed - implemented at the first hint of resistance and well before the horse is even thinking about planting or rearing.

    My bratty hooligans improved tremendously after just a few sessions of this, and the recent filly took 2 lunge line sessions plus about 5 or 6 off-lunge sessions before the light bulb seemed to go on. After a couple of sessions she stopped wanting to rear, at least, and just tended to balk/stop while she thought things through. She is currently a solid young citizen and her owner no longer suspects her of having any screws loose.
    Last edited by visorvet; May. 6, 2013 at 11:29 PM.



  2. #62
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    Nov. 3, 2003
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    I haven't read all the posts so maybe someone already suggested this. I had a horse that behaved just like yours at age 4. Very nappy behavior that would only occur when his buddies left (or he had to leave his buddies). So if we were riding in the arena, and the other horse/rider left-- he would immediately get balky, throw a little tantrum and then start rearing. And he would come down and follow it with a buck. It was an amazingly effective way to get his rider off! Anyway--I cured the rear by spinning him. I know--it sounds very cowboy-ish. However, if I hit him with a whip, he would just go up further. Instead, when he started to go up, I'd pull on one rein, hard, then start turning and turning him on the spot. Just kicking and turning (in a tiny, tiny circle). He hated it. Then after I "spun" him for a while, I'd just boot him forward. He was happy to go forward because he wanted the spinning to stop (or he was dizzy--not sure). It worked very well and after a few weeks, the rearing went away. We still had the bucking sometimes . . . . but I'd take that over rearing. FWIW--he ended up being a very solid citizen (not very brave x-c horse) but good dressage, jumper and trail horse. Good luck.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #63
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    Jul. 18, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandyliz View Post
    Probably many have seen these already- they are amazing:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzBjLs-ybyI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKkl8jbe0Ks
    LOVE the Endospink video - he's the man and a highly skilled rider and trainer. Though now I have to feel inadequate for not being able to swing into the saddle from the right side. I'm no longer as spry as him but can still get it done on the left. Right side - no chance.
    Last edited by visorvet; May. 6, 2013 at 11:44 PM.



  4. #64
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    Apr. 16, 2013
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    Florida Grown!
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    After reading so many posts of your experiences, I went out yesterday evening with renewed hope I do think it's behavioural.
    When I got to the barn there were students on ponies, although we crossed at the gate, us in, them out. It was feeding time too, so he was a bit distracted by the day horses being brought in. We went about the ring with rudimentary steering. I make lots of surpentines and turns around jumps to keep him thinking and supple his slab sidedness...and then comes the first plant. I immediately turned him right, which is his worst side, and got him moving. Balked again after about 5 strides, turned him left. This went for about another side each and then I cowboyed him a little. making him keep circling a few rounds so he appreciated going straight. We kept doing this for a bit, and once he was going fairly well at the walk I asked for trot, using vocal cues, leg and let my DR whip snap on my boot. He tossed his head but gave me a trot...so big big praise and neck pats. When he dropped to a walk I asked again after a few strides, he planted & we turned fast. I think he was a little stunned.
    So to wrap, it was a rear-free ride alone in the ring. I'm going out this eve to repeat, and on the weekend, will have a groundperson with the longe whip, then Tuesday, lungeline work with me mounted. I'd like to long line, but my facility isn't accommodating for that. I envision being wrapped around the jumps....

    The hounds will just have to starve...


    8 members found this post helpful.

  5. #65
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    Dec. 9, 2012
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    Congrats!! Rear-free is quite the progress!



  6. #66
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    Jan. 19, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by taz's mom View Post
    So to wrap, it was a rear-free ride alone in the ring. I'm going out this eve to repeat, and on the weekend, will have a groundperson with the longe whip, then Tuesday, lungeline work with me mounted. I'd like to long line, but my facility isn't accommodating for that. I envision being wrapped around the jumps....

    The hounds will just have to starve...

    Very cool. Just be careful about the ground person. It sounds to me that when he plants...if you put too much pressure on him and he feels trapped...that is when he goes up. The ground person will put pressure on him so make if you do use one, they read the horse well and keep the pressure to as minimal as possible. The turning and spinning usually works well enough to not need a groud person.

    The next thing he will likely start doing is going backwards. Plant and run backwards.....turning/spinning is the same response to that. Good luck.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #67
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    Jun. 30, 2011
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    Good job!



  8. #68
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    Jul. 31, 2002
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    Harrisonburg, VA
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    I would be careful with too much spinning. I bought a mare that was coming off broodmare duty, to breed/ride. She was extremely herdbound in her comfortable surroundings and one trainer told me I was brave to be on her when I rode into the ring for a lesson and she barely kept one foot on the ground. This mare had been spun in the past and was as good as any reiner. Almost got a trainer off until I screamed at her to drop the rein when she thought she'd try a spin. It only happened to me once and I stuck it out until I figured out she knew that trick, so be careful if you have a smart one....



  9. #69
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    Jul. 14, 2003
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    MA
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    Wow, someone who asks for advice and then.......wait for it....FOLLOWS THE ADVICE! Good for you Taz's Mom! Keep it up.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #70
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    Dec. 28, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    He is 8 now, and the rearing has diminished over time. It was at its worst when he was 4. He did it a lot at that age, and it wasn't because I was in his face. He would be walking around on the buckle and stand up. In any event, the way we addressed it was by just SPINNING him HARD every time he thought about going up. The timing is critical, and you have to get them before their front feet lift off. Nose to the knee and just SPIN, SPIN, SPIN, while kicking, then kick forward into the trot. If the horse offers to rear again, same deal, SPIN SPIN SPIN and then kick forward. He actually figured it out fairly quickly and disliked being spun enough that he knocked it off in short order.
    This.

    Wear big spurs. When you feel him balk, spin in tight circle while kicking (or better yet jabbing him with your spur) with the leg in the direction you are turning him so he has no opportunity to go up, then straight into forward.

    If he gets the jump on you and rears first, pull his noes around and down hard (do not pull back, obviously) to the side and do the same as above. Be consistent. Be firm. Reward him with praise once he moves off and forward.

    Wash, rinse, repeat. Hope he grows out of it before he hurts himself or you! My 4yo went through this too and eventually got over it. He never pushed the line too far while I was on him, and responded very well to the technique above, but he did flip himself over on the lunge line one day and I think scared himself straight. Once I got through rehabbing, he didn't go up like that again, but I'd rather he hadn't learned that way! Since yours only asks like this while mounted, you are ahead of the game.



  11. #71
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    Jun. 24, 2006
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    So glad to hear this!! Congrats!! Funny how shocked they get... "I am not moving... WHAT?! AGH! Wait I guess I will just walk that was unnerving!" I couldn't believe how quick mine got it. And may take some cowboying but well worth it. I also did the lunge while mounted and found it worked well.



  12. #72
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    Nov. 13, 2009
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    Glad to hear the positive update, OP!

    I feel like a lot of really talented four-year-olds would get put down and fed to the hounds if many COTHers had their way. Rearing IS something natural that horses do, so it should not be totally alarming if horses, you know, do "horse things" at some point - I'm always very surprised at how many people advocate just putting horses down if they ever exhibit this vice, even as a young horse.

    I was actually really, really pleased to see that most people on this thread gave good advice that did not include just giving up on the horse and putting it down. I become happier every day with my decision to move my horse to an eventing barn and out of h/j land, and the helpful and knowledgable mentality on this thread is an example of the reasons why!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #73
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    Apr. 16, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    Glad to hear the positive update, OP!

    I feel like a lot of really talented four-year-olds would get put down and fed to the hounds if many COTHers had their way. Rearing IS something natural that horses do, so it should not be totally alarming if horses, you know, do "horse things" at some point - I'm always very surprised at how many people advocate just putting horses down if they ever exhibit this vice, even as a young horse. which is why the hounds will starve...

    I was actually really, really pleased to see that most people on this thread gave good advice that did not include just giving up on the horse and putting it down. I become happier every day with my decision to move my horse to an eventing barn and out of h/j land, and the helpful and knowledgable mentality on this thread is an example of the reasons why!
    Exactly why I reached out, and only on the eventer forum. He'll be one soon enough. When he does, he'll have a stall marker that says "COTH community training project".

    So I'm hoping to repeat tonite. I was happy enough that we kept his feet pointing down, and the quick spin really did seem to give him an unexpected startle - of the good kind. Short of the C2J meeting I dread, and am hoping to bypass. He is VERY VERY smart & willful, and no other indicators of "badness" which is why I took him on for the journey. At 41, I could have gotten something more "made" . I'm really thankful for the suggestions to "spin" him. I've seen it done, but mostly in western riding. I thought forward forward forward only, which is why I'd keep tap tap tapping until he moved. I understand the spin keeps him grounded and gets him moving, and it's easy enough to counter the direction before he even realizes it's happening.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #74
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    Mar. 11, 2005
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    Great job, OP!! It will be fun to hear about tonight's ride, and your stall plaque idea is very cute!

    FineAlready, I am soooo with you! I've learned more from the eventers I've met and ridden with here than just about anyone. My eyes were opened a while back, but I was a chicken. It's so refreshing to see people actually give horses a chance to be horses!
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique



  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenike View Post
    Great job, OP!! It will be fun to hear about tonight's ride, and your stall plaque idea is very cute!

    FineAlready, I am soooo with you! I've learned more from the eventers I've met and ridden with here than just about anyone. My eyes were opened a while back, but I was a chicken. It's so refreshing to see people actually give horses a chance to be horses!
    LOL, I don't even event! I just board at an eventing barn. But it is SO refreshing! I don't think I will ever go back. It is so nice to be around knowledgable people who put the horses first and don't immediately want to get rid of them every time they show that they have a pulse.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #76
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    Nov. 14, 2007
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    Seems like you've checked anything that could be causing pain, and if he only does it when alone, I would strongly suspect it's behavioral and not 'medical'. I agree with the tight spins - not just circles but really spins - and then boot him forward as you come out of it. Secondly, and I'll probably get flamed, you might try one of those bungie 'neck stretcher' things. I recently had a horse that would run backwards and rear when he didn't want to do something, and the bungie kept him on the ground. I used it for a couple of months and he came around. Good luck. Don't get hurt.



  17. #77
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    Great job Taz!!! Sounds like you handled it great, meaning to say instead of "just handling it" you turned it into the educational opportunity that this very smart and very bold 4 year needs.

    I think sometimes people get lost in the "handling" of the moment that they forget that there is a purpose to it, and that purpose is to create a more educated riding horse.

    Pleeeease let us know how it goes tomorrow!
    "Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing" - Robert Benchley
    Cotton would fight.
    http://buildingthegrove.blogspot.com/



  18. #78
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    Sell him to be a foxhunter.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



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