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  1. #121
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    Mar. 23, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by eponacowgirl View Post
    We send out clinic evaluations for every clinic we host, and to date, I have gotten 0 back.
    Try sending them out electronically with a program like Zoomerang which allows you to send this out as less of a "clinic evaluation" and more of a survey asking questions. It is amazing what one can accomplish if you send via email the day after (or the day of the clinic for the people to respond when they get home). Somehow, judging by the wealth of opinions on this board, I'm guess you'll get plenty of responses.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Nov. 29, 2007
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    Virginia
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    Also, in re: "sending out" evaluations -- you may foster much more of a culture of it being acceptable to fill them out if you have a drop off for them at the clinic -- like a closed box or something so people feel they can be frank, not just asking folks to place them on a table or something where all could see.

    Ask people to fill them out before they leave, then leave them alone to do it, again so they can be frank. If you really want them filled out, give those who return a completed survey to your discreet box a ticket for a drawing, or perhaps some small prize for everyone, or a small discount on another lesson or clinic, or other incentive.

    Keep surveys short. Just a few questions. Certainly no more than one page, single sided.

    If you are sending them out afterward, it's not likely you will get a response. Too much effort.
    "However complicated and remarkable the rest of his life was going to be, it was here now, come to claim him."- JoAnn Mapson


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
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    Boston Area
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse&Bay View Post
    Try sending them out electronically with a program like Zoomerang which allows you to send this out as less of a "clinic evaluation" and more of a survey asking questions. It is amazing what one can accomplish if you send via email the day after (or the day of the clinic for the people to respond when they get home). Somehow, judging by the wealth of opinions on this board, I'm guess you'll get plenty of responses.
    If you do not get the evaluations on site you won't get many at all. And my guess is that you would be lucky to get a 30% response rate even on site. People do not like to say anything negative to someone's face. They will vote with their wallets and not come back.

    If you email the survey then you're looking at a 20% OPEN rate for the emails and even fewer of those people will fill something out.

    I send out emails and surveys pretty often.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.



  4. #124
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2006
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    SF Bay Area, California
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    4,429

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlissTate View Post
    I watched all of the groups go, and heard all of the instruction. Clinician is in fact a big deal. Of "presidential" proportions".
    Based on this clue alone, I'm pretty sure I know who this clinician is, if the clinic was in Colorado.

    IF it's who I think it is, it's someone I am fortunate to be able to ride with on a monthly basis in both private lessons and clinics. This person has done so much to help my anxious, new to eventing horse become an eventer to be reckoned with.

    If you are interested in theory and why things happen a certain way, then you will like this person. If you want to just ride and jump a lot, you won't because this person makes you think about what you are doing and what you may have done incorrectly. This person is also very quick to compliment when pleased with what has happened. Clinician is a very good judge of horse/rider pairs and is quite adept at either toning something back or pushing for more based on what is seen.

    This particular person is a wealth of knowledge and brings an edgy sense of humor to the lessons. If you are sensitive and can't handle straight to the point comments, this person is not the one for you.

    I also agree this is not a good person to clinic with on cross country if you haven't schooled before. It's really not fair to this person and other riders to have to spend time with someone who comes in with no prior experience.

    Yes, lessons and clinics are costly with this clinician, but in my opinion worth every penny. As a matter of fact I have a dressage and jumping lesson with this person next week and I'm looking forward to it!

    Quote Originally Posted by tle View Post
    I also didn't take BlissTate's post as nasty as some of the subsequent posters seem to have taken it. Blunt? Yes. but not nasty.
    I feel the same way. I saw no nastiness in the tone of the post.
    Last edited by jenm; May. 9, 2013 at 08:15 PM. Reason: added quote
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    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 1999
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    Mendocino County, CA: Turkey Vulture HQ
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    14,466

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    Disclaimer: I also know this clinician and have ridden extensively with him, mostly in more lesson-type situations rather than clinics.

    Just as kind of a general rule, I would not ever recommend anyone's first cross-country experience be with an open clinic of this nature. You want it to be low key, with someone who already knows your riding and riding style, who has already prepped you with theory and exercises at home and who is ready to take you out knowing it is your first time, and able to focus on you as a first time rider.

    (If it was a clinic especially and specifically for first time riders, that would be different.)

    I too came to eventing after being a 3'6" H/J rider. My first cross country outing... we jumped little logs. We jumped up hill and downhill and just got to be cool with the whole "here we are out in the open where the ground isn't flat and all the horses are kind of keen" experience. And then we worked our way up to the true BN size jumps. In that case, my trainer knew I needed kind of a survey of "this is what x-c riding is" ... which is very different from the lesson I would teach to a group of riders who have already completed BN (let alone N) events.

    I will ditto the comments about the difference in a teacher in a lesson situation versus a one-off group clinic. For myself, and for where I am with my riding now, I know I will typically get more value from a clinician that I can return to on a regular basis (even if it's quarterly or yearly) than from one that is a one shot deal.

    There are certain times, though, when we all hit a point in our riding where we need someone higher up than where we are now, and that's when it's good to hit these group clinics. They get me thinking about new things and trying new material.

    OP, I hope you find a good local instructor who can take you out and get you some great XC experience and get you going around, probably at a better price point too.

    When you get more experience, if you find yourself on a plateau and are hungry for some new techniques, I wouldn't discount this clinician, especially in a smaller group. On the other hand, there are many other excellent coaches out there as well to choose from.

    Good luck in your eventing career!
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #126
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    Sep. 26, 2010
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    I think BlissTates post was absolutely uncalled for. To speak out so openly about the OP him/herself and everything he/she did in the clinic is very rude.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  7. #127
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    Jan. 6, 2008
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    Area II, the Blue Ridge Mountains
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    It is all about style and what we like. This particular clinician had less than stellar reviews on another forum.

    So maybe we should back off from questioning the OP. the other thread involved listing best and worst clinicians and no one came back and criticized those posting their experience.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #128
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    Jan. 6, 2008
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    Area II, the Blue Ridge Mountains
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnicklefritzG View Post
    I think BlissTates post was absolutely uncalled for. To speak out so openly about the OP him/herself and everything he/she did in the clinic is very rude.
    I did too. I would be quite distraught if someone came on here and critiqued what I did in a lesson! I hope the OP will not take this as typical of eventers generally.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    I do not get why everyone has their panties in a wad about BlissTates post. I do not see where BT said anything specific or rude about the OP.
    This is a discussion forum. There are allowed to be two sides to a conversation. People are allowed to point out a reason that shows another point of view.

    I feel bad for the OP that she saved her money and does not feel she used it well in attending this clinic. To me it reads more that she made a poor choice in a clinician. She for sure should have audited first to make sure that this clinician taught in a way that she felt would match her learning style.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #130
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    Feb. 4, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    I do not get why everyone has their panties in a wad about BlissTates post. I do not see where BT said anything specific or rude about the OP.
    The OP asked about the general etiquette of giving feedback on clinics, whether you go through the organizer, or the clinician, him/herself. There is a separate thread going for people who want to review specific clinician and teaching styles.

    BT shows up and outs the clinic/clinician, and says some very unkind things about the OP and her riding (that she wasn't prepared, wasn't trying, was rude to the clinician herself, etc.). We have no idea if BT has even correctly identified the OP, or what her motive for saying all this was, but IMO it was pretty out of line, and the type of behavior that could drive posters away.

    If I want to ask a question about clinics/lessons, or events or courses, I am not expecting a snarky riding critique from greater COTH.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  11. #131
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    Jan. 6, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beam Me Up View Post
    If I want to ask a question about clinics/lessons, or events or courses, I am not expecting a snarky riding critique from greater COTH.
    Yep!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #132
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beam Me Up View Post
    The OP asked about the general etiquette of giving feedback on clinics, whether you go through the organizer, or the clinician, him/herself. There is a separate thread going for people who want to review specific clinician and teaching styles.

    BT shows up and outs the clinic/clinician, and says some very unkind things about the OP and her riding (that she wasn't prepared, wasn't trying, was rude to the clinician herself, etc.). We have no idea if BT has even correctly identified the OP, or what her motive for saying all this was, but IMO it was pretty out of line, and the type of behavior that could drive posters away.

    If I want to ask a question about clinics/lessons, or events or courses, I am not expecting a snarky riding critique from greater COTH.
    So it is OK for someone to bash a clinician but not OK for someone to point out that there might be a reason the OP did not have a good experience?

    The OP asked 'what would you do' and people are pointing out what they would do. For example, research your clinicians before you ride with them so you know that your riding style matches their teaching style. Or do not talk with other riders during the clinic so the clinician does not think you are ignoring them, etc.

    They might have been the answers the OP wanted but they are still answers to the question of 'what would you do'.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2006
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    Southern Ontario
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    Wow -- you guys think this is tactful?:

    Quote Originally Posted by BlissTate View Post
    There is a large chasm between the 3'6" jumpers and beginner novice/novice eventing, my friend..... As someone watching I didn't get a sense that you (emphasis mine) were interested in the difference.... You didn't do too badly for your first time on a cross country course... just because you can jump your way around a mid sized jumper course doesn't mean this stellar and beloved clinician who wanted to see more from you was rude or didn't know what they were talking about.
    And all this while GUESSING at the OP's identity -- how, I don't know. Why are we all assuming that BlissTate has correctly identified the OP?? For all we know, the OP was quiet and attentive as a church mouse and BlissTate has the wrong rider in mind.

    I'll tell you what I do and don't have a problem with:

    1) I don't have ANY problem with the SUBSTANCE of BlissTate's post. It is insightful as a commentary about a particular clinic and clinician, and about eventing clinics in general. The points raised are helpful to the OP as a self-described newbie to eventing. Definitely worth reading from that point of view.

    2) I have SIGNIFICANT problems with "outing" an individual ammy rider who a) did not invite personal commentary, b) did nothing rude or offensive to deserve it, and c) may not even be "correctly" outed!! Had she come on and said (for example) "I was the blonde girl in the green vest on the bay mare in the Novice group; I thought we did an awesome job over the bank and the clinician was so mean and negative!!" -- I guess she would have opened the door for someone to say "well, I was there and I have to say I agree with the clinician because.. yadda yadda". Had she come on and said "Clinician X SUCKS and is a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME" -- that is a rude attack on the clinician and it would be entirely warranted to rebut with " I was at the clinic and I think the participants sucked because.. yadda yadda".

    I think it's weird that people are being so cagey about saying the clinicians name (while dropping massive hints...) but are so accepting of BlissTate's assessment of the OP as an arrogant jumper rider who needs to smarten up before she kills herself and her horse on XC. Yes, this stereotype exists, but we don't know if the OP is truly deserving of it, and she posted nothing to earn this smack down. THAT is my problem with BlissTate's post.


    24 members found this post helpful.

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2004
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    South Park
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    3,182

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    ^^
    True that!
    A friend told me I was delusional. I almost fell off my unicorn.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  15. #135
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    Jan. 6, 2008
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    ^^ Thank you.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  16. #136
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    Feb. 4, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    So it is OK for someone to bash a clinician but not OK for someone to point out that there might be a reason the OP did not have a good experience?

    '.
    The OP was careful not to identify/bash the clinician. It was BT who outed everyone.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  17. #137
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    Mar. 6, 2013
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    134

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    Quote Originally Posted by poltroon View Post
    Just as kind of a general rule, I would not ever recommend anyone's first cross-country experience be with an open clinic of this nature.

    OP, I hope you find a good local instructor who can take you out and get you some great XC experience and get you going around, probably at a better price point too.
    I just wanted to point out that you are quick to judge when you didn't read the whole OPs situation. She said that she is new to cross county, not that she hasn't schooled it before.

    The OP also stated that her instructor recommended that clinic/clinician. Meaning that she has an instructor, and that her instructor thought she was ready for a clinic of this caliber.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  18. #138
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2001
    Location
    Tennessee
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    6,550

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    Quote Originally Posted by fargaloo View Post
    Had she come on and said "Clinician X SUCKS and is a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME" -- that is a rude attack on the clinician and it would be entirely warranted to rebut with " I was at the clinic and I think the participants sucked because.. yadda yadda".
    I read the OPs first few post and I thought that was EXACTLY what she said: Clinician sucked, complete waste of time. Did anyone really read it otherwise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beam Me Up View Post
    The OP was careful not to identify/bash the clinician. It was BT who outed everyone.
    Saying you went to a really BNTs clinic and revealing the date goes a very long way in outing the clinician--especially if the clinic date is the same date as a 4*. Being brand new to eventing the OP probably didn't realize that but it is true non the less. I knew who the clinician was before BT's post.



  19. #139
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    Apr. 11, 2006
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    Southern Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlemess View Post
    I just wanted to point out that you are quick to judge when you didn't read the whole OPs situation. She said that she is new to cross county, not that she hasn't schooled it before.

    The OP also stated that her instructor recommended that clinic/clinician. Meaning that she has an instructor, and that her instructor thought she was ready for a clinic of this caliber.
    Good point. I went back and re-read the OP -- OP says that has been eventing for 2 months. Then BlissTate comes on and says that OP has never ridden XC before the clinic and we all accept it as gospel. .


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #140
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    Apr. 11, 2006
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    Southern Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    I read the OPs first few post and I thought that was EXACTLY what she said: Clinician sucked, complete waste of time. Did anyone really read it otherwise?
    Ok, fair enough. She was definitely complaining. However, she wasn't truly rude about it (as some threads about clinicians have been), and most importantly, she didn't mention the clinician by name (whether or not people can figure it out form dates and location is another story). I completely agree with a post that points out "hey, there is a different perspective here that you should consider"; I just don't like how it was done.

    FWIW, I'm not taking OP's "side" against the clinician -- even dumb old me has figured out who the clinician is, and this thread has not put me off him in the least. My coach used to ride with him and if he ever comes to Canada I would love to clinic with him. I just don't like the assumptions being made about the OP's behaviour and background.


    3 members found this post helpful.

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