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  1. #81
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    Jan. 6, 2008
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    Area II, the Blue Ridge Mountains
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    Quote Originally Posted by horselover1117 View Post
    I think thats great that you walked away from that and learned so much! I guess we just have different opinions on how the weekend went.
    You're a good sport. Welcome to Eventing!

    AB


    12 members found this post helpful.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Oct. 30, 2008
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    3,318

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    I didn't take BlissTate's reply as anything other than forthright and another perspective from a seasoned eventer. Because the OP is new to eventing, she may not be aware of all that comes with riding at speed over terrain. And I'd also agree with those who recommended that she reach out to the clinician with tactful (which I think she is very capable of from her post) feedback and see what sort of response she gets.

    OP--We really are a fun bunch so please don't give up on us after one frustrating clinic.
    Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

    You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2005
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    left my soul @ the barn
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    1,279

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    ohhhhhhhhhhh you have to read between the lines. Got it now.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2005
    Location
    PA
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    13,096

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    Quote Originally Posted by scubed View Post
    I normally agree with everything BFNE says, but my guy saw xc for the second time and did any real schooling for the first time in the Leslie Law clinic in 2012 and it was an amazing experience. I felt it set us up really well for success.
    http://seema-thefloridachronicles.bl...aw-clinic.html

    There is a difference in a really experienced rider on a green horse. Still not my preference though. I like to get them out once or twice before a clinic unless it is a clinic with someone who I know well. My current green OTTB did his first real school with Jimmy in a clinic but I had popped over logs and a ditch and gotten him in water before the clinic so knew he would handle it fine.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  5. #85
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2004
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    Camden, De
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    3,632

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    I would assume the people who organized the clinic thinky highly of this person and likely wouldn't be interested in your feedback. I suppose we all have our own opinions so there isn't much you can do. I have had similar experiences where I found a clinic or a lesson to be bad and when I do voice my opinion it is disregarded. I just speak with my wallet and don't make the same mistake twice.

    Somebody local to me set up several clinics with a clinician and from all the response that I heard people found it a waste of time. Nobody spoke up. Why? Because the person likely wouldn't believe what was said and would take it personally. I imagine what will happen is that the next time this person sets up a clinic with said trainer there will be little to no attendance. That seems to be the way that people "speak up" about their experiences in various clinics.

    We all have our preferred teaching styles and I think that is what makes our experiences so different.

    I would rather do lessons than a clinic because I think I get more bang for my buck.



  6. #86
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2004
    Location
    South Park
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    3,355

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    "Clinician is in fact a big deal. Of "presidential" proportions."

    Funny that the OP has been so careful about not disclosing the name, but BlissTate just outed him
    A friend told me I was delusional. I almost fell off my unicorn.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
    Location
    Middleburg, VA
    Posts
    13,342

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    Not who I'm thinking it is. The clue is in the post.
    Oh. Yeah. Hmm...

    If BlissTate's description is accurate (and having been astonished at how chatty riders can be in a clinic, it wouldn't surprise me), I'm surprised the clinician was as cool as he was. I've only ridden with him at home....if you act like an idiot, he'll quickly point it out (but is also quick with praise, too, even if you don't completely get it right but try).

    Interesting having a second opinion. This is why everyone's experiences can be very different when clinicing.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2010
    Posts
    299

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    Like many have said one of the best things to take away from this experience is to do due diligence in researching the clinician to see if they suit your learning style in the future. A quick search of reviews of the clinician in this case on CoTH revealed that many of the things the OP is complaining about have been pointed out by others in the past.

    Reviews include:
    -clinician talks a lot
    -clinician likes to use ancedotes to teach
    -clinician puts great value on theory (why are we doing this, how should we do this, go do this with the end result if you thought about how to do it correctly and then did it correctly, there is no reason to do it over and over again)
    -clinician does not do as well with children or beginners (coming from the high AO showjumping world with the same horse that I event on I did not like being called a beginner either, but the first time I had my mare on cross country I knew this was a whole new ballgame for both of us and approached it accordingly)
    -clinician is not there to make you think you are perfect but rather to help you provide the best, safest ride for your horse and will point out when you are doing something less than ideal in this regard rather bluntly

    None of these things I read about this clinician from this very board made me think that people are raving about him without pointing out his limitations. It indicated to me instead that he would be a good clinician for certain people. I am sorry that you were not one of those people, OP, but I am certain that if you keep going to clinics in the future and research your choices more closely you will find someone you can learn a lot from.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2007
    Location
    Napanee ON
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    4,367

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    Not who I'm thinking it is. The clue is in the post.
    ahh I get it... lol



  10. #90
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    Greenville, MI,
    Posts
    12,252

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    Well Bliss seems to know who it is and was aware of the clinic.
    But gee, Different take. The clinician is indeed hinted at in her post.
    I guess when I go to a clinic, I take everything the clinician is saying, Do as they say, and sort out what worked and what doesn't later.
    I paid for their instruction, advise. I try to make the most of it.
    As eventing goes, I had some awesome clinics with a big name person, Went back more than once, I loved it. I know everyone takes instruction differently. Some are better in a one on one scenario And others can get a lot out of a group situation. I like both. I get a lot out of watching other riders and hearing the clinicians comments to that person.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  11. #91
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2002
    Location
    Oregon
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    6,001

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl View Post
    Interesting. I read BlissTate's comment as a fairly tactful suggestion that possibly there was another interpretation to the set of facts presented. "6 jumps" and "worked on terrain questions, banks, and water " can both be true and someone might honestly not have considered the difference between one and the other.

    The possibility that perhaps OP was coffee-housing and didn't realize it was interfering w her learning? Worth considering before riding in our next clinic, as it certainly happens...

    A windy day - and a talkative group - can certainly explain a clinician yelling and not being nasty.

    And so on.
    I read it this way, as well. It sounds like the OP would benefit more from one-on-one XC lessons, though she may still be disappointed at the lack of size and/or number of fences she is given.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2001
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,629

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    Quote Originally Posted by pony grandma View Post
    You know, back in the day, Bruce Davidson was such a gentleman that if you weren't listening or didn't try at one of his clinics that he would just quietly quit teaching you. You'd sit and do a lot of waiting, then when you'd get a run thru an exercise there would be no comments. Just sayin....
    Forget "back in the day!" I've seen almost all the BNTs that I've clinic with do this. Chatting during a session (from either a rider or an auditor) is pretty much considered the height of disrespect--to both the clinician and the other participants. I personally think it is an appropriate response from the clinician.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
    Location
    Ohio: Charter Member - COTH Hockey Clique & COTH Buffy Clique
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    9,143

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    Quote Originally Posted by subk View Post
    Forget "back in the day!" I've seen almost all the BNTs that I've clinic with do this. Chatting during a session (from either a rider or an auditor) is pretty much considered the height of disrespect--to both the clinician and the other participants. I personally think it is an appropriate response from the clinician.
    At a clinic about 10 years ago, Karen O'Connor stopped in the middle of a discussion with riders and turned to the group of AUDITORS and said "there's only one of us here that's being paid to talk". I loved it as I was there paying to hear her teach and the chatter from teh auditor group had gotten loud and distracting.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike


    17 members found this post helpful.

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2001
    Location
    NC
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    4,434

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    I once heard a mom tell a kid after a lesson that she could keep riding her pony because we did too much talking instead of riding. Sigh.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Nov. 28, 2006
    Location
    Transitioning
    Posts
    616

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    I'm surprised to see how much variety there is in the opinions on this topic.

    I did a clinic a few years ago with a no huge name rider, but is getting more popular. This person was actually mentioned already in this thread!

    There was, in the clinician's opinion, a FABULOUS horse in my group, who they basically paid attention to the entire time. Taking time from the clinic to discuss what their show season should be (going to what shows at what levels), and trying to get them to come take private lessons.

    it was really offensive, not because I thought my horse was better, she wasn't, but because I hadn't paid money to listen to someone blow smoke up another rider's butt and plan out her horses life.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Jun. 25, 2004
    Location
    Carolinas
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    5,035

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    Having ridden with a few and audited a fair amount of BN eventing, H/J-Jumper and dressage there are several things they all have in common:
    The horse's welfare is first.
    Safety is important
    They value their's and your time. They are there to teach and you are there to learn.
    Your feelings are not always important-do something stupid and you hear about it.
    They get paid whether pay attention or not. Don't pay attention and they either call you on it or ignore you.
    They generally know much more than us about horses and often they size us up rather quickly. Will never forget a wealthy rider just dialing it in at a clinic and was called out by the clinician. She straightened up and had a great ride afterwards
    The old adage is so true, you don't what you don't know until you know it. The clinician may have realized the groups were not as prepared, mentally and physically, so chose to impart knowledge. Eventing by the seat of the pants is ok, but far more enjoyable for you and your horse if you know how to make a plan, how and why to adjust that plan. Sounds like he was trying to make you think.
    And if I caught the "hint" correctly, this person was mentored by thinking riders/coaches who are/were never known for sugar coating their lessons.
    BlissTates' post was not as snarky as many have thought. If I had saved for such a clinic I would be under the clinicians feet trying to understand what he/she was trying to impart to me. Up to and including talking to he/she at the appropriate time.
    Finally when in doubt audit. This has saved me from additional embarrassment by riding in a clinic before with my horse or I were ready. 25+ years later and one clinician reminds me of my mare's meltdown at a clinic. Even though we return later for rave reviews. It is his/hers reminder to me to keep the ego in check.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Apr. 30, 2002
    Location
    Looking up
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    6,279

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jleegriffith View Post
    I would assume the people who organized the clinic thinky highly of this person and likely wouldn't be interested in your feedback. I suppose we all have our own opinions so there isn't much you can do. I have had similar experiences where I found a clinic or a lesson to be bad and when I do voice my opinion it is disregarded. I just speak with my wallet and don't make the same mistake twice.

    Somebody local to me set up several clinics with a clinician and from all the response that I heard people found it a waste of time. Nobody spoke up. Why? Because the person likely wouldn't believe what was said and would take it personally. I imagine what will happen is that the next time this person sets up a clinic with said trainer there will be little to no attendance. That seems to be the way that people "speak up" about their experiences in various clinics.

    We all have our preferred teaching styles and I think that is what makes our experiences so different.

    I would rather do lessons than a clinic because I think I get more bang for my buck.
    Thanks. Very helpful.
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
    www.eventhorse.wordpress.com



  18. #98
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2011
    Location
    UK
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    7

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    A good teacher will always make sure that the person knows not just what is expected/what they are doing, but why. Whatever the OP's capabilities, the fact she was not aware of the purpose of what she was doing or being asked to do is not exactly ideal.

    Flowery long winded anecdotes may well be a mine of useful information, but it's partly the teacher's job to ensure the student understands the link, or at the very least that there is a link


    7 members found this post helpful.

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Boston Area
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    8,496

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    I always audit a clinician before riding for them. I can usually tell by watching them teach whether they will be a good match for how I like to learn.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2000
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,173

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    Wait wait wait:: OBAMA WAS THE CLINICIAN????
    Proud Member of the League of Weenie Eventers
    Proud Member of the Courageous Weenie Eventers Clique


    30 members found this post helpful.

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