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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr. 21, 2010
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    2,487

    Default Adding topline, not necessarily weight?

    I was wondering if you can weigh in (no pun intended!) on some ways to add topline but not a lot of weight.

    Backstory: elderly cushings pony, has gone from skeleton to lovely in about 6 months. Has been a challenge given that she cannot have a lot of sugar. ACTH went from 90ish (don't know the number, she wasn't ours when first tested) to 30.

    She is currently eating 1/2 scoop TC senior, 1/4 scoop timothy pellets, 1/4 cup omega horseshine, 1/2 scoop tri-amino, 1/2 scoop of Smartflex Senior, and a 1/2 scoop SmartDigest. Yes, she's on a ridiculous amount of supplements! This is pm. In the am she just gets 1/2 scoop of TC senior.

    She looks great, IMO. Especially given where she started. However, her topline still needs to fill out, and her hips. I wonder if this is just old age, or do I need to get to working on it.

    Looking on her from the side, you wouldn't really notice it. But up close it bothers me a tiny bit. She is a small framed horse to begin with, and to me its exaggerated by the bony topline.

    Here is our blog with photos, you can see her progress, and please feel free to comment or make suggestions!

    http://valentinaandlily.blogspot.com/



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 21, 2010
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    2,487

    Default

    ETA: I HAVE noticed a difference since starting the tri-amino. I'm wondering if I should just up the dose a bit?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2007
    Location
    Pen Argyl PA
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    3,792

    Default

    i believe as an Elderly equine, there is not much you can do to get her topline to look great. If anyone has suggestions, i would also be interested to hear..


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2006
    Posts
    10,000

    Default

    I'd try upping the dose a bit on the Tri Amino.
    Last edited by grayarabpony; May. 6, 2013 at 08:48 AM.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2010
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    2,223

    Default

    She is currently eating 1/2 scoop TC senior, 1/4 scoop timothy pellets, 1/4 cup omega horseshine, 1/2 scoop tri-amino, 1/2 scoop of Smartflex Senior, and a 1/2 scoop SmartDigest. Yes, she's on a ridiculous amount of supplements! This is pm. In the am she just gets 1/2 scoop of TC senior.
    I'm curious as to how big the scoop you're using is and the weight of the pony. You may not be giving the pony adequate vitamins/minerals, which could contribute to the lack of the top line. Bumping up the tri-amino could be helpful, but there is only so much a supplement can do. Long/low type top line building workouts will help, but ultimately the pony's age is likely the reason for the lack of topline.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2004
    Location
    South Park
    Posts
    3,182

    Default

    What a cutie!
    With my guy, what has helped was:
    - walking over cavalettis (start low then you can raise them after a couple of weeks, then progress to trotting.) I did this daily about 5 times each way x 3 times a day.
    - Belly lifts (scratching their belly til the lift their back and withers) Again 3 times a day, a few seconds at first and progress to where they will hold it for 10-15 seconds.
    - walking up hill, and backing up hills. Again, start slow a couple of steps and build on that.
    - 1 scoop of Tri-Amino.
    All those only take a few minutes a day and have made a big difference in my horse.

    PS: I wanted to add that those exercises where recommended by my chiro/vet and that she has seen the horse 4 times in the last year to help with his issue and has commented on how much better and stronger he now looks.
    A friend told me I was delusional. I almost fell off my unicorn.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 28, 2009
    Location
    nw ct
    Posts
    682

    Default

    Are you familiar with any of Dr. Hilary Clayton's work?
    http://equimed.com/health-centers/fi...ses-for-horses



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr. 21, 2010
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    Default

    My feed scoop is 3 lbs. So 1 1/2 lbs 2x/day of TC Senior.

    The supplement scoops are typically 1 oz. I asked Smartpak and they said to half the dose since she is only about 400 lb.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2012
    Posts
    316

    Default

    Thanks for posting the link to your blog. I remember you posting the link a few months back and looking at it. That grin right before she looks into the stall is to die for! Soooo cute!!!!

    Nothing to add about the top line, sorry



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 21, 2010
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    Default

    Thanks, we are in love. She is such a blessing.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
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    4,501

    Default

    Wow, look at her!!

    To be honest, I wouldn't do anything else. She has come so far in really, a relatively short period of time (less than a year from sickly skeleton to now) - think about all the other parts of her body that have had to heal (internal & external). So I feel like if topline muscles *can* come back from the atrophied state they were in, they will. Gentle under saddle work will help, also.

    But it might not be possible to make her "filled out" unless you put her into solid work - and at her age, even that might not work. (Then you get into the question whether long-atrophied muscles can come back ever - if she was untreated for a long time, it's possible that they will never be truly full and round.)

    I guess I'd stick with what you're doing because she really looks great. For the -saddle work I'd just be sure she had a well fitting saddle and if necessary, a pad that will help cushion. Since your dd is so tiny, I think that should probably be fine.

    Well done! What an amazing transformation!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,831

    Default

    I have had good luck feeding 3,000 to 5,000 IU's of Vit E (no selenium)

    <Edited to say I just looked at your pictures - such a cutie!! And for a pony the IU's would be less but I do think it would be very helpful>

    This is the brand I use - https://kppusa.com/all-products/elevate-ws/

    The liquid is better but if you cannot feed that they do sell a powder.
    How people treat you is their KARMA.... how you REACT is yours!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr. 21, 2010
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    Aw, you guys are making me blush! She's been a true labor of love. I've so thoroughly enjoyed watching her transformation. And she's a doll with my daughter. And can jump to boot! Watched her free jump for fun in the pasture, that was cool.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr. 20, 2013
    Location
    Area IV
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    1,080

    Default

    Have you considered adding Enrich 32 to her diet? It is a protein supplement to add to her feed. You need a decent amount of protein to add muscle. I use Tri-Amino also along with Smart Muscle Endurance but they make a Smart muscle Mass also. I bet the addition of a pound a day of Enrich 32 to what you are currently doing would help.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2004
    Location
    NE Indiana
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    5,530

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    I don't think it's impossible for her to improve that topline. I have a 33 year old horse that bounced back from starvation at 27 and her topline is beautiful still. I would exercise her and keep feeding her like you are .

    Angel last summer (32):
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

    Here she was at 27:
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

    This is how she looked after only 8 months after quality nutrition:
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater


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  16. #16
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    Apr. 21, 2010
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    Default

    Wow!!



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
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    She looks AWESOME. Wow. Good job!!

    I don't think you'd be out of line to just be happy with how far she's come, but if you DO want to try more, a full scoop of tri-amino won't hurt her, and might help. I find it SO useful for exactly what you're looking for.

    I think the suggestion of Vit E is also interesting. I supplement all of mine, unless they're eating a good supply of growing grass, as it's one of the first things to degrade in hay. Elevate WS is a wonderful product, but costly, and since you're not dealing with a horse in a potential Vit E crisis (like a neuro horse, or one with EPM) the all natural vit E capsules from Puritan's Pride are certainly an option to try, and considerably less expensive.



  18. #18
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    Apr. 21, 2010
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    Default

    Thank you all so much for th quick responses!



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2006
    Location
    Stoystown, PA
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    Default

    I agree with upping the Tri-Amino to a full scoop. I started Boy on it last year to help him build muscle and had great results.
    Boyle Heights Kid 1998 OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
    Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
    "Once you go off track, you never go back!"



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2004
    Location
    NE Indiana
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    Default

    FWIW, I've been using pure Lysine and getting the same results on another horse - though she is already fit, I noticed a lovely bloom. It's very inexpensive too. But the Tri Amino covers all of the muscle builders, so I would also up that as well!



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