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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discobold View Post
    The thing is, Suzy, that I DO understand your point too, and think this is a glass-half-full versus glass-half-empty type of situation. I think we each provided our own "context" to the video
    Fair enough.
    Charter member of the I-Refuse-to-Relinquish-My-Whip Clique


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #62
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    Plimsol you are a class act!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #63
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    ok, ok, ok, just keep on heaping on poor old Mike - I for one enjoy a lot of his posts that he puts here for us to enjoy -- but I guess the word 'wonderful' has to be axed from his vocabulary. Sorry Mike!

    Just keep on keeping on, Mike, and consider the source!
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #64
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    Oct. 4, 2003
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    Thank you for a great post, Plimsol. And I also thank Mike for starting this thread because I have found it instructive in many ways.
    At this point I am, however, disconcerted by the negative attitude so many people have toward criticism, making mistakes where others can see them, etc. It seems to me that the very word "clinic" suggests that people go to them knowing they have ailments of some sort they would like to have addressed-- I know I do! This discussion reminded me of the following program I heard on NPR, which suggests that this aversion to criticism might be a cultural phenomenon which might explain in part why our students lag so far behind the Japanese in math: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...ackle-learning

    It also reminded me of an expensive clinic I attended 20+ years ago which one of my friends (a very accomplished rider) watched. When I emerged from the clinic, I was full of enthusiasm, having heard nothing but praise for my horse, who the clinician used in exercise after exercise to demonstrate for the other riders. My friend's response was "but what did you learn for your money?? Didn't you already know you have a nice horse??"

    That's the context I come from. I am bothered to find my criticism viewed as "not constructive" and/or "rude." It most certainly was not intended that way.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    Thank you for a great post, Plimsol. And I also thank Mike for starting this thread because I have found it instructive in many ways.
    At this point I am, however, disconcerted by the negative attitude so many people have toward criticism, making mistakes where others can see them, etc. It seems to me that the very word "clinic" suggests that people go to them knowing they have ailments of some sort they would like to have addressed-- I know I do! This discussion reminded me of the following program I heard on NPR, which suggests that this aversion to criticism might be a cultural phenomenon which might explain in part why our students lag so far behind the Japanese in math: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...ackle-learning


    That's the context I come from. I am bothered to find my criticism viewed as "not constructive" and/or "rude." It most certainly was not intended that way.
    I don't think people mind criticism from the clinician, trainer, or judge. After all, that's what they're paying for. But the people on this thread are NOT trained professionals whose opinion is being asked. They are a bunch of overly critical arm chair quarterbacks, most of whom aren't riding anywhere NEAR this level. And even if (and that's a BIG if) they know what they're talking about, the woman in this video didn't ask to have her riding torn apart by anyone but the BNT she's clinicing with. So yes, the unasked for criticism on this forum is rude and unhelpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by pinecone View Post
    I can't decide if I should saddle up the drama llama, dust off the clue bat, or get out my soapbox.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  6. #66
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    I don't think people mind criticism from the clinician, trainer, or judge. After all, that's what they're paying for. But the people on this thread are NOT trained professionals whose opinion is being asked. They are a bunch of overly critical arm chair quarterbacks, most of whom aren't riding anywhere NEAR this level. And even if (and that's a BIG if) they know what they're talking about, the woman in this video didn't ask to have her riding torn apart by anyone but the BNT she's clinicing with. So yes, the unasked for criticism on this forum is rude and unhelpful.
    exactly. she did not post this here and does not deserve all the negative critiques posted here based on half a minute of video of her riding in a clinic that someone else decided to post.


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  7. #67
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    But Fish, according to that view the video should have first been appreciated as a 'wonderful' example of a dedicated rider working to improve under constructive criticism - or are you assuming that CDK wasn't offering any criticism? I doubt anyone pays a clinic fee hoping for the chance to learn from anonymous internet posters.

    I don't think you were rude, but I do think there were veiled suggestions of disparagement in the rather strenuous objections to 'wonderful'... probably aimed more at MM but easily misread as non-constructive commentary on a rider whose journey we know nothing about.
    Proud COTH lurker since 2001.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    At this point I am, however, disconcerted by the negative attitude so many people have toward criticism, making mistakes where others can see them, etc. It seems to me that the very word "clinic" suggests that people go to them knowing they have ailments of some sort they would like to have addressed-- I know I do!
    People paid money to go to a Charles de Kunnfy clinic.

    Not a COTH one.


    Big difference.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #69
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    Oct. 4, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Grey_hunter View Post
    I don't think people mind criticism from the clinician, trainer, or judge. After all, that's what they're paying for. But the people on this thread are NOT trained professionals whose opinion is being asked. They are a bunch of overly critical arm chair quarterbacks, most of whom aren't riding anywhere NEAR this level. And even if (and that's a BIG if) they know what they're talking about, the woman in this video didn't ask to have her riding torn apart by anyone but the BNT she's clinicing with. So yes, the unasked for criticism on this forum is rude and unhelpful.
    Please look at the link I posted, and note that the primary student learns not only from the teacher (aka trained professional), but from fellow students, who also learn by attempting to teach. IMO, it'd be a pretty sad (and expensive) state of affairs if people were only interested in trying to learn from those they have paid to teach them.



  10. #70
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    Yabbut - you have to have a respect for the people offering their opinions - not from people we don't know on an anonymous BB.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


    5 members found this post helpful.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_at_C View Post
    But Fish, according to that view the video should have first been appreciated as a 'wonderful' example of a dedicated rider working to improve under constructive criticism - or are you assuming that CDK wasn't offering any criticism? I doubt anyone pays a clinic fee hoping for the chance to learn from anonymous internet posters.

    I don't think you were rude, but I do think there were veiled suggestions of disparagement in the rather strenuous objections to 'wonderful'... probably aimed more at MM but easily misread as non-constructive commentary on a rider whose journey we know nothing about.
    I wasn't assuming anything. I merely wanted to know what was going on in that "moment" that made it "wonderful" to those who called it that. Gloria did a great job of explaining that to me.

    If there were any "suggestion of disparagement" in my post, it was so well "veiled" that I was completely unaware of it myself. Quite to the contrary, I was trying to help a rider whose "journey" I felt I did know something about, having strenuously battled similar problems for decades, and eager to find help wherever I could-- anonymous internet posters included.


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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    I wasn't assuming anything. I merely wanted to know what was going on in that "moment" that made it "wonderful" to those who called it that. Gloria did a great job of explaining that to me.

    If there were any "suggestion of disparagement" in my post, it was so well "veiled" that I was completely unaware of it myself. Quite to the contrary, I was trying to help a rider whose "journey" I felt I did know something about, having strenuously battled similar problems for decades, and eager to find help wherever I could-- anonymous internet posters included.
    Dittoing what Fish said. I think that some of you read snarkiness and rudeness where none is intended. This forum is literally called a "Discussion Forum," so items should not be posted if discussion is not wanted OR warn us in the initial post so that we will know not to comment. I would have been completely respectful of a request like that and imagine everyone else would have, too. If anything I wrote offended the rider, I am most genuinely sorry. I am actually more annoyed with the OP for not giving us the context for this clip, and there may indeed be some snarkiness in an earlier post of mine regarding that topic.

    Regarding anonymous internet posters, there are a few people here whose posts I have been reading for years, and they have offered some incredible gems, so be careful about throwing out the baby with the bath water.
    Charter member of the I-Refuse-to-Relinquish-My-Whip Clique


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxtrot's View Post
    ok, ok, ok, just keep on heaping on poor old Mike - I for one enjoy a lot of his posts that he puts here for us to enjoy -- but I guess the word 'wonderful' has to be axed from his vocabulary. Sorry Mike!

    Just keep on keeping on, Mike, and consider the source!
    Not to worry. I wear my Big Boy riding boots and breeches when I'm posting on the CotH Forums. It's just the "usual suspects" that like telling others what to do. Reminds me of this.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot View Post
    Plimsol you are a class act!
    Seriously, Plimsol. Your reply was so gracious.
    "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

    "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #75
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    Jun. 28, 2012
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    Good for you! Wonderful post Plimsol.

    I have not yet viewed the video as it won't upload on my iPad. If I could have the title I can search it on YouTube and watch it that way.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #76
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    I think it's very rude to give unsolicited advice and be so hard on the rider. No one should be secretly videoed let alone have it posted on two dressage websites. I'm not sure why it was set to a public setting but that does not mean its free rein to barrage the rider.
    I don't really put a lot of stock into nameless Internet people personally, or even those I know are trainers. I would not ride with any of them after hearing real world stories.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  17. #77
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    Feb. 23, 2008
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    Wonderful?

    Maybe not so much.

    Looks like a VERY weak rider (little core strength) well behind the motion of the trot with her waving hands way up in the air and little contact or stability with a nice easy going horse.

    Yawn.



  18. #78
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    Wonderful?

    Maybe not so much.

    Looks like a VERY weak rider (little core strength) well behind the motion of the trot with her waving hands way up in the air and little contact or stability with a nice easy going horse.

    Yawn.
    How rude. Oh well.

    Maybe mike (who never posts a vid of himself but loves to post videos of other people without consent ) will find a half minute of video of you to post here without your consent. We'll all be sure to pounce on it and tell you how much you suck.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  19. #79
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    Sep. 12, 2007
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    In my experience, if all we look for is the bad and the mistakes then that is all we learn to see. If riders intend to use videos to improve their eye, then they need to look for the positives as well. And ultimately, if the negatives are all we see, then we subconsciously learn to emulate the mistakes. It is one of the downsides of teaching too many beginners--it does not bode well for our own riding, unless we have upper level riders to watch as well. Seeing what is right is perhaps far more important than seeing what is wrong.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  20. #80
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    exactly and that is also what is so counter productive about the pervasive hobby seen all over the net of trashing riders from behind the keyboard all in the name of 'educating the eye". Yeah, right.

    Humility and glass houses.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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