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  1. #1
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    Default A Wonderful Video Moment at the Charles de Kunffy Clinic at Hassler Dressage

    Don't miss the slow-mo section at 20 seconds into the video!

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater
    "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier



  2. #2
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    That is a very short piece of film, so we don't know what was being worked on -- how it was at the start, for instance.

    I found the horse's gaping mouth troubling.


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  3. #3
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    I miss riding with Charles. I always ask myself...what would Charles say...
    A man must love a thing very much if he not only practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practices it without any hope of doing it well.--G. K. Chesterton


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  4. #4
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    Why did they feel the need to do slo-mo? I feel it made it more difficult to accurately assess the movement, and like ThreeFigs, I was bothered by the constant opening/closing of the horse's mouth.


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  5. #5
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    The open mouth would be solved if she were to shorten her reins so that she isn't leaning backwards and balancing on the horse's mouth. Short reins and a more sympathetic contact would also help enormously with the horse's self carriage. Can't imagine why he didn't correct the hands which were also too high and unlevel most of the time.
    Charter member of the I-Refuse-to-Relinquish-My-Whip Clique


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzy View Post
    The open mouth would be solved if she were to shorten her reins so that she isn't leaning backwards and balancing on the horse's mouth. Short reins and a more sympathetic contact would also help enormously with the horse's self carriage. Can't imagine why he didn't correct the hands which were also too high and unlevel most of the time.
    Well he probably can't fix all that in one clinic. I am sure I ride around with several errors that my instructor sees but she prioritizes to the one or two we will work on right now.

    Although I do need to practice that level of oooohing and aaaahhhing for when I teach.


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  7. #7
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    Meup, I was addressing a couple of poster's comments about the horse's open mouth. The rein length is such a fundamental problem that it should have been one of the first things addressed...unless, of course, this was the beginning of the rider's lesson, and he hadn't had time yet to get to it. However, there's a lot of oohing and aahing that makes me think that's not the case.

    I'm just not understanding why this was held up as a "wonderful video moment." It's a nice AA rider on a nice horse obviously working hard, but there's nothing exceptional going on here. I would point people to the CNN video of Charlotte Dujardins that Equibrit posted if people want to see wonderful.
    Charter member of the I-Refuse-to-Relinquish-My-Whip Clique


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzy View Post
    Meup, I was addressing a couple of poster's comments about the horse's open mouth. The rein length is such a fundamental problem that it should have been one of the first things addressed...unless, of course, this was the beginning of the rider's lesson, and he hadn't had time yet to get to it. However, there's a lot of oohing and aahing that makes me think that's not the case.

    I'm just not understanding why this was held up as a "wonderful video moment." It's a nice AA rider on a nice horse obviously working hard, but there's nothing exceptional going on here. I would point people to the CNN video of Charlotte Dujardins that Equibrit posted if people want to see wonderful.
    I dunno.
    When older AA's (as opposed to world class professionals) have a great moment for them and their horse, I'm prepared to give it to them rather than look for ways to rip it down. That video is something a lot of AA's strive for whereas the Charlotte ride is a pipe dream.

    Btw, the woman has according to centerlinescores put scores on the board of 65%+ at PSG, so clearly some of her training priorities are working out for her.


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  9. #9
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    A well-respected trainer sent me a message thanking me for showing this video. He appreciated the relaxed and mobile jaw ala Baucher vs. what some see as a gaping mouth. He also pointed out that it is easy to see this rider releasing her hands. Subtle but clear.

    Just wanted to add this to the conversation.
    "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier


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  10. #10
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    Thumbs up

    I found the slow motion a wonderful teaching tool. The release in the riders arms, and the "plugged in" quality of her seat, and the easily visualized use of her abs.

    One picture is worth 10,000 words.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.


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  11. #11
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    read comment 9 re-watch the vid
    _\\\\]
    -- * > hoopoe

    www.meanderingwa.blogspot.com



  12. #12

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    First of all, as usual, i wonder if MM has permission to share this video on a format that invites criticism that the rider herself has NOT asked for.

    CdK comes from the austro hungarian school of sit behind the vertical on the longe for six months until your stomach feels plugged in to the horse. I am not a fan of behind the vertical riding as it creates such pressures on the back, so that the back is always lower then the croup regardless of how the head and neck are carried. If you are a very light rider on a very big horse, than this can be overcome, but in general, the "truth" of this classical style is a hollow back.

    That said, the elevated inside rein, ( called uneven hands and balancing) is neither uneven or balancing, it is bringing the bit up to the lips to bring the horse effectively into the other rein, and if you look, it works. the control of the horse is by the outside rein, which, i ideally should be held in a straighter line to the horses mouth from the elbow. The lowered inside hand is the goal, the elevated inside hand is the beginning. As for the gaping mouth, i am not a fan, even for a baucher style chewing I think this horse is opening its mouth in a more resistant way than ideal the horse should chew the bit without gaping the jaw open.

    If you are going to work with the french style I do prefer Phillipe Karl, who sits straight and light and does not create the low back open mouth of CdK


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  13. #13
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    I'm pretty much in agreement with Chisamba, but disagree about the Austro-Hungarian school seat style. My first teacher was Col. Miklos de Vargha, who rode for a while at (I believe) the Spanish Riding School of Budapest -- the sister school to the SRS of Vienna. He was also an all-arounder -- he expected his students to ride cross-country and stadium courses as well as dressage. I do not recall any "BTV" sitting.

    De Vargha eventually moved back to Hungary, where he died. He was still giving clinics in his late 80's and 90's. So did CDK and other well-known Hungarians, who would travel back to the old country to teach occasionally.

    That horse's mouth is not a happy one. I watched the video before the slo-mo portion. If my horse was gaping like that, my (current) coach would get after me! A happy, chewing mouth should not gape like that.


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  14. #14
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    I can't see the wow moment with the slow mo. I'm actually kind of irritated wanting to see the nice moment, and while sure I can tell the horse has greater overstep I'd like to compare the overall rate of chewing, tempo, etc., to the normal speed.

    Looks like a nice horse and rider - both nicer than my horse and me, and an ammy I don't feel like criticizing.... The slow motion was a good reminder that when I feel like I'm moving too much in the trot it means I'm not yet moving enough.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    I dunno.
    When older AA's (as opposed to world class professionals) have a great moment for them and their horse, I'm prepared to give it to them rather than look for ways to rip it down. That video is something a lot of AA's strive for whereas the Charlotte ride is a pipe dream.

    Btw, the woman has according to centerlinescores put scores on the board of 65%+ at PSG, so clearly some of her training priorities are working out for her.
    I think you are continuing to miss my point. The subject line is "wonderful." For this rider at this moment in time, it could very well be wonderful. It just isn't my idea of wonderful or what I would model my own riding on. I have more of an ax to grind with the subject line than anything else. I think "A nice moment for an AA rider" may have been more appropriate, and most (if not all) of us would have said, yup.
    Charter member of the I-Refuse-to-Relinquish-My-Whip Clique


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzy View Post
    I think you are continuing to miss my point. The subject line is "wonderful." For this rider at this moment in time, it could very well be wonderful. It just isn't my idea of wonderful or what I would model my own riding on. I have more of an ax to grind with the subject line than anything else. I think "A nice moment for an AA rider" may have been more appropriate, and most (if not all) of us would have said, yup.
    If this rider and this video poster think this moment in time is wonderful for where this pair is at right now, they can describe their video with the adjective they think is appropriate.

    For example, I am super excited about the "fantastic" new gears my horse is finding in his trot work. To me, it is 'fantastic." In comparison to how he went last year, it is "fantastic." Just because it may not be "fantastic" to you when you have just finished watching an Olympic gold medalist on CNN does not mean I have to describe what I am feeling about my horse, or whatever someone who posts video of us thinks, in my personal video, with whatever adjective **you** feel is suitably subdued.

    Just because it's not your cup of tea doesn't mean the rest of the world has to cowtow to your preferred adjective.


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  17. #17
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    agree with meup - and though yes a very busy chewing mouth which is not ideal BUT not the same as a gaping mouth- - note-was not strapped shut obviously-

    This may well have been a breakthrough though not perfection-- we don't know as we have not seen what came before. Posting a brief clip like this makes it difficult to assess the moment.


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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeFigs View Post
    I'm pretty much in agreement with Chisamba, but disagree about the Austro-Hungarian school seat style. My first teacher was Col. Miklos de Vargha, who rode for a while at (I believe) the Spanish Riding School of Budapest -- the sister school to the SRS of Vienna. He was also an all-arounder -- he expected his students to ride cross-country and stadium courses as well as dressage. I do not recall any "BTV" sitting.

    De Vargha eventually moved back to Hungary, where he died. He was still giving clinics in his late 80's and 90's. So did CDK and other well-known Hungarians, who would travel back to the old country to teach occasionally.

    That horse's mouth is not a happy one. I watched the video before the slo-mo portion. If my horse was gaping like that, my (current) coach would get after me! A happy, chewing mouth should not gape like that.
    sorry, i believe CdK was the one who told me that longing for six month behind the vertical was what everyone did there. my apologies for generalization, i should know better



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Just because it's not your cup of tea doesn't mean the rest of the world has to cowtow to your preferred adjective.
    What do you expect from someone who writes and copy edits for a living. I'm a total stickler for precision. Probably why I love dressage, too.
    Charter member of the I-Refuse-to-Relinquish-My-Whip Clique


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  20. #20
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    Chisamba, you're forgiven!

    OTOH, I do know what you mean. A while back, my coach did have me lean waaaay behind the vertical for a few steps to feel how it engaged my abs (my personal Albatross!) She got this idea from a CDK videotape. So your observation of HIS teaching philosophy is valid. And I do believe that momentarily leaning back does help riders 'feel" those abdominal muscles. I just wouldn't want to do it all the time.
    Last edited by ThreeFigs; May. 2, 2013 at 12:51 PM. Reason: omission


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