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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    There was a video posted and I think it was by Sunridge CLAIMING to be the new plant. (USDA hasn't even done an inspection on them yet) ..there have been NO tours of the facility
    Fact is, yes they have:

    Tuesday, 23 Apr 2013: http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s3009012.shtml

    Tuesday, 23 Apr 2013: http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/busines...ses-usda-check

    ************************
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  2. #142
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    Thank you, JGHIRETIRE. For some reason Grandin's comments had stayed with me all this time, but couldn't remember the rest.


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  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Have you noticed that the anti group who always accuse the rest of us for saying "Because I sa so" isn't enough to make it a fact or scientific proof...are very quiet

    They posted there was a recent tour. And there was a tape of it on U tube..

    Not even close.....the plant has not given any tours for a film crew.

    The "lester" article has been on google for at least two years if not longer..the only addition was HSUS was going to sue for water contamination.

    They are joining forces with Habitat for Horses...remember the group who wanted 1 million dollars to save all of the horses caught in the pipe line when HSUS, Angela Freda, Hab for Horses stated their FACT"... that slaughter plants were closed in North America due to violations of the EU passport...

    Habby did NOT return any of the donations..and kept running the request (demand)

    Remember the Canadian gals from Equine Coalition who claimed they phoned Brussels and spoke with a rep who confirmed and also claimed they phoned Canadian slaughter plants and also confirmed..nah..they haven't called anyone about anything.....

    But they call everyone else liars.

    However all of this is moot...Angela has stated..NO MORE SLAUGHTER AFTER JULY...

    I wonder if she even reads a newspaper...by July the EU will have started its own slow death...as county by county remove themselves.
    Just because YOU can't view it with dial-up doesn't mean it's not there. Holy lay off the pain meds. It was a REAL news cast. jeezus Where's the fruitbat? indeed.


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  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Lady Lois is up to her behind in allegations and alligators. IF she sanctioned abuse of power regarding charities and approval or denial depending on their relationship to the current government why should we not believe she would take that another step and use her "preference for a vegan existence" and her BOD HSUS position to advance THEIR cause.

    As head of IRS she could order extreme audits on all animal processing facilities. She could deny any group NOT affiliated with HSUS and truly target those groups that proclaim themselves to be anti HSUS (Humane Watch etc)

    The big fight is always when menbers of either party and or independants are found pushing an agenda that either makes them money or furthers their cause.

    That is the corruption that is out there.

    Strange..as a pro slaughter person I continue to assist with certain rescues or rehoming when I can. I have stated numerous times..it is only ONE PIECE of the puzzle.
    Lois Lerner is not the head of IRS she is the head of the branch for tax exempt status requests. They receive about 1500 such requests each year. She cannot "order extreme audits on all (or any) animal processing facilities" because she is not involved in for profit business taxes. All of your claims are not within her power and that "corruption" would have nothing to do with her. I think you need to read facts and not make such massive assumptions that have no basis in reality.

    Your rabid views for pro-slaughter are your right, and I would hope that you would allow other people the same right to have their views without assuming they are guilty of corruption. It is very strange to read views of people who can make horrendous accusations of other people, because they don't agree with their own opinions.


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  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    The video is in this article

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...&type=1&ref=nf

    ut the videos received by the CHDC indicate that, even in a state-of-the-art slaughter facility, at least 40% of the horses in the stun box were not rendered immediately unconscious, or revived after stunning.

    Reached at home on Sunday evening, December 4, Dr. Grandin agreed to watch the videos and comment on what she saw with this writer. She watched once while I took notes and then we simultaneously watched them three more times, discussing play-by-play footage of horses slipping on floors, vocalizing and remaining standing despite being stunned repeatedly on various parts of their heads.

    How many stuns are acceptable? Under the Humane Methods of Slaughter Act, Sec. 1902, there can only be a “single blow or gunshot” that renders the animals “insensible to pain” before he or she is shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast or cut. (There is only one exception and that is for ritual slaughter done pursuant to a religious faith.)

    Regulation Sec. 313.50 talks about a stunning blow, meaning one. The blow is to be administered so as to produce “immediate unconsciousness” in the animal prior to shackling etc. (a)(3) “Immediately after the stunning blow is delivered, the animals shall be in a state of complete unconsciousness and remain in this condition throughout shackling, sticking and bleeding”. The stunning itself is to be done so the animal is “rendered unconscious with a minimum of excitement and discomfort.”

    Among the footage of horses Dr. Grandin and I reviewed was a large Belgian horse shot 11 times, and numerous horses whinnying after being stunned. One whinnied twice after each of two shots, but no third stunning attempt was made.

    Dr. Grandin commented throughout on the lack of non-slip floors and their importance in reducing animal fear and stress, but she expressed satisfaction with the stunning process, even when the horses appeared to revive.

    When asked if this constituted a failure of the captive-bolt device or her design, she said that each of the horses had “gone down” on the first shot and that any subsequent movement could be attributed to spinal activity, which she described as still functional for as much as five minutes after brain incapacity.

    When asked specifically about the additional stuns being administered, she stated that these appeared to be delivered as “insurance.” Even so, she expressed 90% certainty that the horses were effectively stunned the first time. Her one reservation was that she could not see the horse’s faces and check their eyes and mouths to be sure—something that the angle of the video camera did not allow.

    Overall, her main dissatisfaction was that the horses appeared to be in a cattle box as opposed to a horse box, that the floors weren’t non-slip and that the captive-bolt gun may not have been properly maintained. She also commented on the importance of workers placing the gun in the proper position on the horse’s head, something that they did not appear to do in the instances where the horses were repeatedly stunned. Consistently, however, she felt the process worked as intended.

    When asked if she felt that the move to reopen slaughterhouses in the U.S. was justified, she said that it was better than the fate of horses being shipped to Mexico. She also said that no one had contacted her since the appropriations bill had been signed to design any horse slaughterhouses on U.S. soil. Our talk ended after 50 minutes.

    Grandin Viewpoint of Humane Stunning Disputed

    Neither I nor Dr. Grandin listened to the videos with the volume turned up to its highest level of amplification—but doing so reveals a lot about what is happening between the horses and the workers charged with killing them that cannot be heard at a normal level of volume. In particular, the worker who shot the large Belgian can be heard saying, “aye, you’re not dead” after seven shots, then exchanging his small gun for a larger one and shooting the horse four more times in the head. This directly contradicts Dr. Grandin’s finding that the horses were all properly unconscious on the first attempt, a vital condition of legally humane slaughter.

    Other observers also contradict Dr. Grandin’s assessment. Dr. Nicholas Dodman, an anesthesiologist and veterinary behaviorist at Tufts Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine, audited the footage as well for the CHDC. “My final conclusion, after reviewing 150-plus horse slaughters in this series of videos, is that the process was terrifying for most of the horses and, in many cases, horribly inhumane,” he states.

    Dr. Dodman continues, “At this slaughterhouse, in cases where a second shot was required, most humane standards, in my opinion, were not met.”

    Both videos and report from Les Viandes de la Petite-Nation Inc. slaughterhouse in Quebec can be accessed through the CHDC’s web site.

    Please note: the CHDC footage is as disturbing as undercover video shot in less technologically-advanced slaughterhouses, both in Canada and the U.S. In either case, watching is essential to understanding the food safety and humane issues now being disputed by the horse slaughter industry.
    A lot of study and change has gone into slaughter for equines with the understanding they are very different from cattle. Chutes must be narrow and also the bars must be higher. The change in construction for the head position reflects a new reality.

    The anti breeder self service comments truly demonstrate the posters have no knowledge of the EU and the slaughter plants within it. Horses ARE BRED for slaughter in Russia and numerous other countries. Robbie den Hartog who is one of the largest importers in the Netherlands clearly states there are NOT enough European and Asian horses to meet the demand.

    The EU is caught with their passport as it is a case of do as I say but not as I do.

    As for the article I do remember it..again..the source was suspect. I would enjoy reading a direct response from Dr. Grandin regarding it as it is only their claim as to the number of bolt hits etc. The part I find hard to understand..usually there are not that many dead bolts available for continued use and if it was reloaded and shot and so on that many times defies logic.


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  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Lady Lois is up to her behind in allegations and alligators. IF she sanctioned abuse of power regarding charities and approval or denial depending on their relationship to the current government why should we not believe she would take that another step and use her "preference for a vegan existence" and her BOD HSUS position to advance THEIR cause.

    As head of IRS she could order extreme audits on all animal processing facilities. She could deny any group NOT affiliated with HSUS and truly target those groups that proclaim themselves to be anti HSUS (Humane Watch etc)

    The big fight is always when menbers of either party and or independants are found pushing an agenda that either makes them money or furthers their cause.

    That is the corruption that is out there.

    Strange..as a pro slaughter person I continue to assist with certain rescues or rehoming when I can. I have stated numerous times..it is only ONE PIECE of the puzzle.
    What is this puzzle? Too many horses? What is so hard about that, the market will decide. The market has decided. We have too many horses. So quit making them. Not a puzzle at all.


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  7. #147
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    "Highly trained employees"-----------REALLY? What kind of training do they receive and from whom?



  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Fact is, yes they have:

    Tuesday, 23 Apr 2013: http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s3009012.shtml

    Tuesday, 23 Apr 2013: http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/busines...ses-usda-check
    Psssst... he has dial-up... he can't read those links.


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  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Lois Lerner is not the head of IRS she is the head of the branch for tax exempt status requests. They receive about 1500 such requests each year. She cannot "order extreme audits on all (or any) animal processing facilities" because she is not involved in for profit business taxes. All of your claims are not within her power and that "corruption" would have nothing to do with her. I think you need to read facts and not make such massive assumptions that have no basis in reality.

    Your rabid views for pro-slaughter are your right, and I would hope that you would allow other people the same right to have their views without assuming they are guilty of corruption. It is very strange to read views of people who can make horrendous accusations of other people, because they don't agree with their own opinions.
    According to ABC one of the questions was directly related to what I stated. They have much influence and can make requests from other departments../as long as she takes the 5th I guess we might not know.

    Again..critical thinking rather than just blindly accepting is paramount to getting corruption clean up.

    IF a slaughter plant for equyines is not operated properly it deserves to be shut down. That said..too many DEMAND 100 percent perfection. That is unattainable and to demand that of one industry would not be just.

    I will let the IRS problem evolve as it will.

    I do know that major CEO's etc all speak with each other and "little business favors" are done. As anyone in any industry will confirm there are many favors done without authorization.


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  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Psssst... he has dial-up... he can't read those links.
    LOL, that dial up apparently works well when he is looking for something to support HIS agenda.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Psssst... he has dial-up... he can't read those links.

    We're pleased to let you know that your Sierra Wireless Rocket Stick AC330 Red, ROGERSSIMLTE ROGERS STANDARD LTE 2FF SIMCARD RAW was shipped on 21/05/13. Please allow up to 5 business days for our delivery to reach you.

    yahoo..they have lifted the block and we will be able to have high speed...anyone on dial up will tell you that waiting for something to download and then receive a time out notice just before it is finished is frustrating


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  12. #152
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    I couldn't remember it all either.


    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    Thank you, JGHIRETIRE. For some reason Grandin's comments had stayed with me all this time, but couldn't remember the rest.



  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post

    The EU is caught with their passport as it is a case of do as I say but not as I do.
    Well since they are the ones making the rules, when to bend them is their prerogative. You are also assuming that in those countries they have the same easy access to these banned drugs as we have here in the US making the passports as vital for slaughter horses over there as over here.
    Since I don't know myself how easily they can get the banned drugs to self administer [thus the drugs not being recorded in the passport] , perhaps we could ask those in those countries to report... I'll ask my international friends, shall I?

    However, to think or imply that US slaughter plants processing horses knowing that we can not be certain what their status re drugs is, or worse, forging a pretend status, is the same thing as the EU being lax with their own passports is a problematic leap, at least to me.
    Last edited by Angela Freda; May. 23, 2013 at 10:01 PM. Reason: clarity
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/


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  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Fact is, yes they have:

    Tuesday, 23 Apr 2013: http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s3009012.shtml

    Tuesday, 23 Apr 2013: http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/busines...ses-usda-check
    I can't remember but those are the new plant, At least someone could find the videos, I sure looked till I was cross eyed.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  15. #155
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    Of course the source is suspect - you don't agree with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    A lot of study and change has gone into slaughter for equines with the understanding they are very different from cattle. Chutes must be narrow and also the bars must be higher. The change in construction for the head position reflects a new reality.

    The anti breeder self service comments truly demonstrate the posters have no knowledge of the EU and the slaughter plants within it. Horses ARE BRED for slaughter in Russia and numerous other countries. Robbie den Hartog who is one of the largest importers in the Netherlands clearly states there are NOT enough European and Asian horses to meet the demand.

    The EU is caught with their passport as it is a case of do as I say but not as I do.

    As for the article I do remember it..again..the source was suspect. I would enjoy reading a direct response from Dr. Grandin regarding it as it is only their claim as to the number of bolt hits etc. The part I find hard to understand..usually there are not that many dead bolts available for continued use and if it was reloaded and shot and so on that many times defies logic.


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  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    I can't remember but those are the new plant, At least someone could find the videos, I sure looked till I was cross eyed.
    And I do remember the one with the freshly painted "knock box", but didn't want to waste more time searching for something I know exists.

    ************************
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  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    I can't remember but those are the new plant, At least someone could find the videos, I sure looked till I was cross eyed.
    Someone could find it? I've posted it twice on these threads. Each time to an accusation that it was hokey. I saw it originally on my CNN Newsfeed.


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  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    According to ABC one of the questions was directly related to what I stated. They have much influence and can make requests from other departments../as long as she takes the 5th I guess we might not know.

    Again..critical thinking rather than just blindly accepting is paramount to getting corruption clean up.

    IF a slaughter plant for equyines is not operated properly it deserves to be shut down. That said..too many DEMAND 100 percent perfection. That is unattainable and to demand that of one industry would not be just.

    I will let the IRS problem evolve as it will.

    I do know that major CEO's etc all speak with each other and "little business favors" are done. As anyone in any industry will confirm there are many favors done without authorization.
    You have no basis for any of your claims. "CEOs ect all speak with each other"...Lois Lerner is not a CEO. You have shown that you can make major corruption assumptions based on a person being a vegan and HSUS supporter. That is very sad and if people made corruption assumptions about you based on your rabid pro-slaughter views, you would be the first person to be complaining. IT is impossible to believe anything from posters who have chosen to convict others based on such a silly assumption. You have proven nothing and yet you feel justified in your assumptions, just like slaughter. The fact bar is pretty low for you.


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  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Fact is, yes they have:

    Tuesday, 23 Apr 2013: http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s3009012.shtml









    The proposed slaughterhouse near Roswell may have passed a federal inspection Tuesday.

    USDA inspectors were at Valley Meats in Chaves County, walking through the plant.

    "We have known all along that eventually they would have to come out, they had until April 29th to come out," said plant owner Rick De Los Santos.

    "As of today we are officially the first horse slaughter plant in the country,” said De Los Santos.

    But the USDA says Tuesday's visit was only a site visit - the first step in a long process.

    KOB Eyewitness News 4 looked at the inside of the proposed slaughter facility, at the pens where the horses would be kept, and at the equipment that could be used to process them.

    First we saw the slaughter floor, then two processing rooms where meat would be packaged, processed, and shipped off to other countries, as well as a cooling room where meat would hang to cool for twenty-four hours.



    Tuesday, 23 Apr 2013: http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/busines...ses-usda-check



    Horse slaughterhouse passes USDA check
    Updated: Wednesday, 24 Apr 2013, 9:47 AM MDT
    Published : Tuesday, 23 Apr 2013, 6:27 PM MDT

    Gabrielle Burkhart
    ROSWELL, N.M. (KRQE) - What could be the nation's only horse slaughterhouse cleared a major hurdle Tuesday in Roswell.

    Federal agriculture inspectors gave it their OK, and with that step now cleared the owners expect to be in business soon.

    Protestors stayed away from the Valley Meat Company as U.S. Department of Agriculture inspectors paid their visit. But they're still upset about what the plant could mean for Roswell.

    Company owner Rick de los Santos says it's been tough and expensive to maintain his plant as it sat unused for the last year and a half.

    A successful USDA inspection took Valley Meat a step closer to opening as the only horse slaughterhouse in the nation.

    "No recommendations," de los Santos told KRQE news 13. "Usually they come in and recommend this or that. No recommendation. Everything was good."

    But still surrounding his plant is a whirlwind of opposition.

    "The western world wouldn't be civilized without horses," animal rights activist Cassie Gross said. "We owe horses a certain amount of respect for what they've done for us the past several hundred years."

    Now that the plant has cleared its USDA inspection she's worried about what the slaughterhouse could mean for Roswell and the state of New Mexico.

    "The tourism hit that we're going to get in this town," gross continued. "We're no longer going to be known as the UFO capital of the world. We're going to be known as the home of the horse slaughter plant where Roswell kills horses."

    But de los Santos and his family have heard worse things. They've had to involve the FBI because of death threats.

    "I hope he gets hit in the head and kicked and his children all die of the plague," one recorded caller said of the owner,

    "We've been married 35 years," said Sarah de los Santos. "I have never heard such horrendous things about my husband, but this is what I know: people don't know him."

    The de los Santos family expects the disagreements will continue as the plant moves closer to slaughtering horses.

    "I think what we have to do is just deal with it," said Rick de los Santos. "Take each day at a time and just deal with whatever comes our way. That's how we've done it the last year-and-a-half."

    The owners are now awaiting final approval from the USDA.

    The de los Santos family says they've had problems with people stealing no-trespassing signs in the past. Now they will have round-the-clock security.

    The de los Santos family says the plan is to export the horses to European countries, Mexico and others for consumption.

    The owner didn't have an exact timeframe of when they may start but hopes to start hiring right away.

    Okay...here are the articles. NO comment about white paint and just making the chutes look bigger.
    There are no comments about the chutes or anything regarding the killingt process.

    Oh..protestors..yup..those folks are authorities for sure. If this is all you have to offer..yikes..


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  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    And I do remember the one with the freshly painted "knock box", but didn't want to waste more time searching for something I know exists.
    THATS the one! You are right. Can't find it.
    I also cannot find the Video I am referring to, Not the one posted earlier,
    It is not the one with that hack fat boy who can't shoot the broad side of a barn,
    The Video I am thinking of was shown from behind the horse in the Kill box, So you see the operator of the Bolt, and it was a bolt in front.
    It was quite clear and there were many many horses that went through,
    And it had a corresponding report on each numbered horse and the result of stun. I cannot remember which one it was, Someone posted for me a while back That was the one I thought that had an interview with Grandin.
    Heck, My memory sucks.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



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