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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    I appreciate the fact that you acknowledge that there was a video/pictures of this plant after the owner had "made improvements".
    Yup, I sure did see them, I can't for the life of me remember where that thread is or which one, but it was apparent it was just a cleaned up cattle plant.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    We may not agree on everything LE but I totally agree with that.
    I do not know why it should be either.
    IT is called incompetence right? And I do not know why folks are saying this is not true, Show me why it is not true.
    Like I have said before I am not against slaughter, but hack jobs are unacceptable And if the methods are not working for the equine species,
    and it is to be run like a business then why is it okay? I dare say Cattle slaughter houses would not be running if there were so many repeat hits or misses.
    A gun in an accurate marksman is much more efficient. think of all the time that would be saved, not to mention, stress on the animal that taints the meat.
    That is where me and the pro slaughter folks differ, no one has been able to give me a satisfactory answer and I do not think it has anything to do with the humane society.
    I'm not pro-slaughter of horses as I believe our relationship with them is primarly as companion animals in sport, not for food in modern times in the U.S. But as long as we're going to have it, it needs to be done PROPERLY, not atrociously.

    And I damn well care about humane endings for all the other animals as well, because I'm a low-carber who eats meat just about every single meal--I'll turn vegan when pigs learn to fly! We evolved with the eyes on the front of our heads and a dog's gut for a REASON. But there is NO need, EVER, to willfully torment any animal in the name of "profit" on the way to becoming our food.

    "Fail" happens, but "habitual fail" is unacceptable!


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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    I'm not pro-slaughter of horses as I believe our relationship with them is primarly as companion animals in sport, not for food in modern times in the U.S. But as long as we're going to have it, it needs to be done PROPERLY, not atrociously.

    And I damn well care about humane endings for all the other animals as well, because I'm a low-carber who eats meat just about every single meal--I'll turn vegan when pigs learn to fly! We evolved with the eyes on the front of our heads and a dog's gut for a REASON. But there is NO need, EVER, to willfully torment any animal in the name of "profit" on the way to becoming our food.

    "Fail" happens, but "habitual fail" is unacceptable!
    As you know, I eat the same, And I agree, not my choice to slaughter personally but it will be done, so it should be done humanely. Yes I agree!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


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  4. #124
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    Where are all these claims about fails coming from? There have been no horse plants operating since 2007. Any statistics or videos are old and since most of them are created by hysterical AR types, they are completely invalid.
    Give delosSantos a break. You can be sure he will run a top-notch operation.
    Wayne will stop at nothing to take away our rights to animal ownership. He counts on his fake videos to stir up peoples' emotions. Remember, those videos are becoming illegal because they were saved for months or years, and in the end, many of them were actually videos of other AR actors who hired into the plants to simply carry out acts of cruelty, then disappear and release the videos later. Wake up, America!!!



  5. #125
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    Preaching to the choir here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    I'm not pro-slaughter of horses as I believe our relationship with them is primarly as companion animals in sport, not for food in modern times in the U.S. But as long as we're going to have it, it needs to be done PROPERLY, not atrociously.

    And I damn well care about humane endings for all the other animals as well, because I'm a low-carber who eats meat just about every single meal--I'll turn vegan when pigs learn to fly! We evolved with the eyes on the front of our heads and a dog's gut for a REASON. But there is NO need, EVER, to willfully torment any animal in the name of "profit" on the way to becoming our food.

    "Fail" happens, but "habitual fail" is unacceptable!


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  6. #126
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    I remember that as well. They even said it was a re-tooled cattle plant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Yup, I sure did see them, I can't for the life of me remember where that thread is or which one, but it was apparent it was just a cleaned up cattle plant.


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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I remember that as well. They even said it was a re-tooled cattle plant.
    Yup! I just did a Bing search for it and cannot find it.
    I wish I could.
    7 There was a huge study done in Canada, not too long ago, 2010 with a horse plant, and a long ass written report on almost 100 horses.
    And Video. And it was not AR wackos, Temple Grandin was consulted.
    It was not an undercover one, it showed all the misses and rehits and recorded all. each horse was numbered in the report.
    Using a Pneumatic gun. Horses were able to duck and snake there heads around. Very inefficient.
    I brought this point up many threads ago, and I am pretty sure it was never addressed. And I have no idea what the report was called or where to find it anymore.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    So anyone working for the government who is a vegan and supports HSUS is the basis for a hearing on whether they violated the law ? Wow, that is some strange delusional world you live in. I actually researched the laws of the 501(c)(4) but what do I know, I should just make up some list of PERSONAL information and assume someone is guilty based on that.

    I am truly astounded by the level of knowledge from some posters....
    When a person is a rabid vegan such as Wayne..and he has onb his BOD a top ranking government official who is also a vegan and in a position to have much influence..that is not smiled upon by the law. That is the type of fortmula that leads to an abuse of power and we are now just seeing it slowly exposed. She can take the 5th until cows fly..

    If she was just a donor..and supporting them like her local humane society dog shelter that is one thing. For her to be in a strong position and in a position to influence AND perhaps do damage to those who oppose Wayne and HSUS..that is another.

    I am truly astounded by the level of knowledge from some posters and their inability to see things through.

    It is about the ABUSE OF POWER


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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    If this is even TEN PERCENT true, and I believe it probably is, that's a humane atrocity that is simply unacceptable for ANY species. Let me ask you--how long would you hunt with a guy who regularly took "8 or 9" shots to bring down his deer or elk? You wouldn't, right? In fact, if that was witnessed much the odds are very good he'd be reported to the authorities and his hunting license revoked for incompetence--and that's at RIFLE SHOT range!

    If it's taking more than ONE on ANY kind of a regular basis at POINT-BLANK range, the method is completely unsuitable and another should be employed--WTF is wrong with using a GUN in skilled hands? You might lose a minute and 40 seconds an hour?

    Anything more than one occasional "miss" is as inhumane as clubbing them to death; have we really not evolved since the CAVES?

    Maybe THIS ought to be on "Nightline," eh?
    He has NEVER provioded any documented proof. He took that DIRECTLY from HSUS

    Why blindly accept his statement AFTER he also says he hasn't been in the plant.. that is why his little letter..taken from a couple of years ago and just polished with the HSUS will sue over the water issue and you have the same old urban legends

    What would go on Nighline? I have NEVER heard of that many shots in the equine slaughter industry. Not saying it couldn't have happened ONCE..but it just is too unbelieveable to anyone who has been in a slaughter facility.


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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    When a person is a rabid vegan such as Wayne..and he has onb his BOD a top ranking government official who is also a vegan and in a position to have much influence..that is not smiled upon by the law. That is the type of fortmula that leads to an abuse of power and we are now just seeing it slowly exposed. She can take the 5th until cows fly..

    If she was just a donor..and supporting them like her local humane society dog shelter that is one thing. For her to be in a strong position and in a position to influence AND perhaps do damage to those who oppose Wayne and HSUS..that is another.

    I am truly astounded by the level of knowledge from some posters and their inability to see things through.

    It is about the ABUSE OF POWER
    So let's see Fairfax, I could gather all of your "rabid" pro-slaughter anti-HSUS posts and provide that as evidence of your "ABUSE OF POWER" if you were to have a government job. By the way her name is Lois Lerner.

    Just when you think you are dealing with political issues, you come to COTH and are told it is all about the "rabid vegans and HSUS supporters" that are out to destroy the world.

    Bottom line, the 501(c)(4) regulations should be implemented as written.
    Last edited by stolen virtue; May. 23, 2013 at 08:44 PM.


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  11. #131
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    Novelists and children's authors should run ads on these forums. The vast majority of posters appear to embrace fiction and mythology as they fight to strip all of us of our rights. Fairfax is right, lerned lois is heading for the stockade. Soon, many of the posters who are being paid by Wayne will see their moneytrain end.



  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    Novelists and children's authors should run ads on these forums. The vast majority of posters appear to embrace fiction and mythology as they fight to strip all of us of our rights. Fairfax is right, lerned lois is heading for the stockade. Soon, many of the posters who are being paid by Wayne will see their moneytrain end.
    Gee, on what charge ? You think you are the only poster dealing with facts, prey tell the charge and on what evidence ?

    Charged for being a "rabid vegan" ?

    Now, who's delusional....
    Last edited by stolen virtue; May. 23, 2013 at 08:45 PM. Reason: spelling...


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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    He has NEVER provioded any documented proof. He took that DIRECTLY from HSUS

    Why blindly accept his statement AFTER he also says he hasn't been in the plant.. that is why his little letter..taken from a couple of years ago and just polished with the HSUS will sue over the water issue and you have the same old urban legends

    What would go on Nighline? I have NEVER heard of that many shots in the equine slaughter industry. Not saying it couldn't have happened ONCE..but it just is too unbelieveable to anyone who has been in a slaughter facility.
    It may take me forever to find it but That report is somewhere, and It was from Canada, and it was not that long ago.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


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  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Yup! I just did a Bing search for it and cannot find it.
    I wish I could.
    7 There was a huge study done in Canada, not too long ago, 2010 with a horse plant, and a long ass written report on almost 100 horses.
    And Video. And it was not AR wackos, Temple Grandin was consulted.
    It was not an undercover one, it showed all the misses and rehits and recorded all. each horse was numbered in the report.
    Using a Pneumatic gun. Horses were able to duck and snake there heads around. Very inefficient.
    I brought this point up many threads ago, and I am pretty sure it was never addressed. And I have no idea what the report was called or where to find it anymore.
    I think that was the Richelieu plant that was designed by Temple Grandin. I'll confess that I didn't watch the videos, but I was impressed by all of the discrepancies in the paperwork. A little bit later they had a followup report where the reporter sat down and viewed the footage with Grandin (sound off). From memory now, I believe that they watched it multiple times. It was reported that Grandin emphasized the importance of good footing at all times (videos of slipping horses at the plant), but the thing that got me is that I THINK she was quoted as saying that most of the killing shots were good or acceptable to her.

    The prior narrative had emphasized the fact that a lot of horses were thrashing around after they had been shot/bolted. Perhaps there is much more muscle reaction going on than one might realize. As I said before, I did watch Hickstead's final moments, including the thrashing that many people were calling agony. From my perspective, the horse was dead when he hit the ground.

    I would be willing to accept that some thrashing might be involved that is not associated with consciousness for the horse. I would also be willing to accept that a good hit with a bolt will obliterate or jangle the reactions of the horse that even with an apparent regaining of consciousness does not mean that the horse is consciously experiencing this.

    However, I'm yet to hear from any of the in-the-know folks whether I am right, wrong, or partially.

    Why don't we just eliminate HSUS from the equation? It's just a cheap excuse by the pro folks not to face the whole issue head on and address some of the questions we have.
    Last edited by betonbill; May. 23, 2013 at 08:37 PM. Reason: adding to novel


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  15. #135
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    There was a video posted and I think it was by Sunridge CLAIMING to be the new plant. Think about it. The USDA tells them to enlarge it (USDA hasn't even done an inspection on them yet) so they painted it white to make it look bigger. I will not deny that MIGHT have been the case in 2007 however they have stated..there have been NO tours of the facility

    It is so easy to falsify a date on a video before one posts it on u tube or anywhere else..

    IF they have a same old facility and conduct business in a shabby and inhumane manner with all of the eyes on them..they will bite the dust.


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  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    I think that was the Richelieu plant that was designed by Temple Grandin. I'll confess that I didn't watch the videos, but I was impressed by all of the discrepancies in the paperwork. A little bit later they had a followup report where the reporter sat down and viewed the footage with Grandin (sound off). From memory now, I believe that they watched it multiple times. It was reported that Grandin emphasized the importance of good footing at all times (videos of slipping horses at the plant), but the thing that got me is that I THINK she was quoted as saying that most of the killing shots were good or acceptable to her.

    Yes - I found the video again

    The prior narrative had emphasized the fact that a lot of horses were thrashing around after they had been shot/bolted. Perhaps there is much more muscle reaction going on than one might realize. As I said before, I did watch Hickstead's final moments, including the thrashing that many people were calling agony. From my perspective, the horse was dead when he hit the ground.

    I would be willing to accept that some thrashing might be involved that is not associated with consciousness for the horse. I would also be willing to accept that a good hit with a bolt will obliterate or jangle the reactions of the horse that even with an apparent regaining of consciousness does not mean that the horse is consciously experiencing this.

    However, I'm yet to hear from any of the in-the-know folks whether I am right, wrong, or partially.

    Why don't we just eliminate HSUS from the equation? It's just a cheap excuse by the pro folks not to face the whole issue head on and address some of the questions we have.



    Thank you.


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  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    So let's see Fairfax, I could gather all of your "rabid" pro-slaughter anti-HSUS posts and provide that as evidence of your "ABUSE OF POWER" if you were to have a government job. By the way her name is Lois Lerner.

    Just when you think you are dealing with political issues, you come to COTH and are told it is all about the "rabid vegans and HSUS supporters" that are out to destroy the world.

    Bottom line, the 501(c)(4) regulations should be implemented as written.
    Lady Lois is up to her behind in allegations and alligators. IF she sanctioned abuse of power regarding charities and approval or denial depending on their relationship to the current government why should we not believe she would take that another step and use her "preference for a vegan existence" and her BOD HSUS position to advance THEIR cause.

    As head of IRS she could order extreme audits on all animal processing facilities. She could deny any group NOT affiliated with HSUS and truly target those groups that proclaim themselves to be anti HSUS (Humane Watch etc)

    The big fight is always when menbers of either party and or independants are found pushing an agenda that either makes them money or furthers their cause.

    That is the corruption that is out there.

    Strange..as a pro slaughter person I continue to assist with certain rescues or rehoming when I can. I have stated numerous times..it is only ONE PIECE of the puzzle.


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  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    I think that was the Richelieu plant that was designed by Temple Grandin. I'll confess that I didn't watch the videos, but I was impressed by all of the discrepancies in the paperwork. A little bit later they had a followup report where the reporter sat down and viewed the footage with Grandin (sound off). From memory now, I believe that they watched it multiple times. It was reported that Grandin emphasized the importance of good footing at all times (videos of slipping horses at the plant), but the thing that got me is that I THINK she was quoted as saying that most of the killing shots were good or acceptable to her.

    The prior narrative had emphasized the fact that a lot of horses were thrashing around after they had been shot/bolted. Perhaps there is much more muscle reaction going on than one might realize. As I said before, I did watch Hickstead's final moments, including the thrashing that many people were calling agony. From my perspective, the horse was dead when he hit the ground.

    I would be willing to accept that some thrashing might be involved that is not associated with consciousness for the horse. I would also be willing to accept that a good hit with a bolt will obliterate or jangle the reactions of the horse that even with an apparent regaining of consciousness does not mean that the horse is consciously experiencing this.

    However, I'm yet to hear from any of the in-the-know folks whether I am right, wrong, or partially.
    Well are you only asking here or elsewhere as well, cause there's no one here truly 'in the know' in the sense that they've recently been in a horse slaughter plant for any length of time, ie worked there for days/months, that I know of.

    Honestly, any report from someone at a plant of the movements being involuntary/voluntary or what level of consciousness they might have after a good hit or bad isn't going to be terribly scientific or reliably accurate. I doubt a Vet could say for certain. Maybe that's me?

    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    Why don't we just eliminate HSUS from the equation? It's just a cheap excuse by the pro folks not to face the whole issue head on and address some of the questions we have.
    Hear, Hear!
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/


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  19. #139
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    The video is in this article

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...&type=1&ref=nf

    ut the videos received by the CHDC indicate that, even in a state-of-the-art slaughter facility, at least 40% of the horses in the stun box were not rendered immediately unconscious, or revived after stunning.

    Reached at home on Sunday evening, December 4, Dr. Grandin agreed to watch the videos and comment on what she saw with this writer. She watched once while I took notes and then we simultaneously watched them three more times, discussing play-by-play footage of horses slipping on floors, vocalizing and remaining standing despite being stunned repeatedly on various parts of their heads.

    How many stuns are acceptable? Under the Humane Methods of Slaughter Act, Sec. 1902, there can only be a “single blow or gunshot” that renders the animals “insensible to pain” before he or she is shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast or cut. (There is only one exception and that is for ritual slaughter done pursuant to a religious faith.)

    Regulation Sec. 313.50 talks about a stunning blow, meaning one. The blow is to be administered so as to produce “immediate unconsciousness” in the animal prior to shackling etc. (a)(3) “Immediately after the stunning blow is delivered, the animals shall be in a state of complete unconsciousness and remain in this condition throughout shackling, sticking and bleeding”. The stunning itself is to be done so the animal is “rendered unconscious with a minimum of excitement and discomfort.”

    Among the footage of horses Dr. Grandin and I reviewed was a large Belgian horse shot 11 times, and numerous horses whinnying after being stunned. One whinnied twice after each of two shots, but no third stunning attempt was made.

    Dr. Grandin commented throughout on the lack of non-slip floors and their importance in reducing animal fear and stress, but she expressed satisfaction with the stunning process, even when the horses appeared to revive.

    When asked if this constituted a failure of the captive-bolt device or her design, she said that each of the horses had “gone down” on the first shot and that any subsequent movement could be attributed to spinal activity, which she described as still functional for as much as five minutes after brain incapacity.

    When asked specifically about the additional stuns being administered, she stated that these appeared to be delivered as “insurance.” Even so, she expressed 90% certainty that the horses were effectively stunned the first time. Her one reservation was that she could not see the horse’s faces and check their eyes and mouths to be sure—something that the angle of the video camera did not allow.

    Overall, her main dissatisfaction was that the horses appeared to be in a cattle box as opposed to a horse box, that the floors weren’t non-slip and that the captive-bolt gun may not have been properly maintained. She also commented on the importance of workers placing the gun in the proper position on the horse’s head, something that they did not appear to do in the instances where the horses were repeatedly stunned. Consistently, however, she felt the process worked as intended.

    When asked if she felt that the move to reopen slaughterhouses in the U.S. was justified, she said that it was better than the fate of horses being shipped to Mexico. She also said that no one had contacted her since the appropriations bill had been signed to design any horse slaughterhouses on U.S. soil. Our talk ended after 50 minutes.

    Grandin Viewpoint of Humane Stunning Disputed

    Neither I nor Dr. Grandin listened to the videos with the volume turned up to its highest level of amplification—but doing so reveals a lot about what is happening between the horses and the workers charged with killing them that cannot be heard at a normal level of volume. In particular, the worker who shot the large Belgian can be heard saying, “aye, you’re not dead” after seven shots, then exchanging his small gun for a larger one and shooting the horse four more times in the head. This directly contradicts Dr. Grandin’s finding that the horses were all properly unconscious on the first attempt, a vital condition of legally humane slaughter.

    Other observers also contradict Dr. Grandin’s assessment. Dr. Nicholas Dodman, an anesthesiologist and veterinary behaviorist at Tufts Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine, audited the footage as well for the CHDC. “My final conclusion, after reviewing 150-plus horse slaughters in this series of videos, is that the process was terrifying for most of the horses and, in many cases, horribly inhumane,” he states.

    Dr. Dodman continues, “At this slaughterhouse, in cases where a second shot was required, most humane standards, in my opinion, were not met.”

    Both videos and report from Les Viandes de la Petite-Nation Inc. slaughterhouse in Quebec can be accessed through the CHDC’s web site.

    Please note: the CHDC footage is as disturbing as undercover video shot in less technologically-advanced slaughterhouses, both in Canada and the U.S. In either case, watching is essential to understanding the food safety and humane issues now being disputed by the horse slaughter industry.
    Last edited by JGHIRETIRE; May. 23, 2013 at 09:05 PM. Reason: copied too much


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  20. #140
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    http://www.respect4horses.com/the-truth

    This hsus sponsored group claim that foals are ripped from their mothers while they are all still alive. They also claim it takes 5-6 bolts before the horse

    This is from their site

    The bolt ends up in their eye or cheek and many videos prove that horses have to be hit approximately 5 to 10 times before they go down, even in the ... Kill pens at auction Horses being transported to the slaughter plant. .... The biological foal gets ripped away from its mother and left to die,

    WHOOPS..there have NOT been many videos to prove that..they say 5-10..Lester says 7 and so on..and when asked to provide those videos they are unable to do so where the videos can be validated.

    As for the foal..maybe that has happened in Mexico..but it does not occur in Canada and I never had any proof provided to me that it ever happened in the U.S. A. when slaughter was funded.

    Everyone is free to come up with a suitable and effective alternative. One must take into account water, county laws, costs and usage..every part of the horse can be used whereas euthanization has its critics from both sides.


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