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  1. #1
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    Default PD's Comments re: Rolex - Add a CIC***?

    For those of you following Phillip on Facebook, he posted some interesting takeaways from this year's Rolex. I will transcribe for those of you who have not seen it:

    "I think this year was a very successful Rolex for the sport. There was a great competition and an exciting finish for the crowds. I do feel however that the organizers need to look closely at the schedule on Saturday and how it runs. With only about 40 horses running cross country at five minute intervals there are a lot of breaks with inevitable scratches, and the long lunch break is particularly a problem. I feel this year with the morning horses doing the course so easlier riders in the afternoon were pretty complacent and possibly not riding with enough aggression and respect for the course. I think that a complementary class should be added - perhaps a CIC***? The CIC*** could run in the morning and then the CCI**** could still be the feature class in the afternoon. This would be much more exciting for the spectators and better mentally for the competitors."

    What are your thoughts? My main concern would be time. While entries were considerably down this year, I would think that this would not be the norm as there will still be WEG and Olympic years to keep in mind. So how would a *** run with a full entry list of 80+ horses in the ****? I was actually finding myself thinking similar thoughts regarding running another level in conjunction with the **** but was not sure how the logistics would work out. I honestly think that a lot of the long lunch break is for the spectators to ensure that everyone can get off course for a break and also to bring the trade fair more business. Just my speculation though.

    Thoughts?
    "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."

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  2. #2
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    It used to run with a CCI***....and before that I think when it was just a 3* ran with a 1* perhaps.

    I have to say I agree with him. It is very rare for the the US to fully subscribe Rolex like Badminton or some of the other 4*. I think it would be a better to have two levels. Either a CIC or CCI (not sure I care). A CIC would be a shorter course so takes up less time. The entries could be limited and a lottery like Badminton done so that really your best qualified go...not just your qualified.

    More entries really brings in more people. Randor used to make a killing when it ran a 1* with the 2* as you got all the friends and family of the 1* riders which in turn supported the 2* more.

    I'd support it and think it would work...but some thought would need to be on what other level. A part of me thinks a 1* or 2* could possibly be better economically....
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  3. #3
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    I'd love it. Great idea. And it would get the 3* riders experience in front of ginormous crowds,


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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by riderboy View Post
    I'd love it. Great idea. And it would get the 3* riders experience in front of ginormous crowds,
    My thoughts exactly. If it were me, trying to get a 3* qual and experience would be great in front of a Rolex crowd. And Kentucky is more accessible travel wise than a lot of the East coast events for those that live farther West.
    "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."

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  5. #5
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    i think its a fantastic ideal.
    they used to run the horse trials in the morning and the *** in the afternoon. with all the improvment and changed the khp has gone through over the years i think they are more than capable!!!



  6. #6
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    Great idea. Great development opportunity for up and coming horses.

    One of the challenges posed by Rolex and other big events are the crowds and atmosphere. Our young up and coming horses just don't get enough of an opportunity to practice in that environment. Neither do our riders. Adding slightly lower divisions would only increase the allure of Rolex, providing additional spectators, riders and supporters.



  7. #7
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    I think they should run an Advanced Horse Trials again rather than a CIC***. It would be a great thing for up & coming horses before they have to tackle the extra difficulty.


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAZ View Post
    I think they should run an Advanced Horse Trials again rather than a CIC***. It would be a great thing for up & coming horses before they have to tackle the extra difficulty.
    True but we do need more international events for qualifiers....and with all the FEI stewards there it would have some (maybe not much) cost savings in expenses.

    I also wonder if they could also run some of the YEH classes....or create a new one. The finals in the UK are at Burghley and that was cool to go watch. I think they ran them on dressage days. It is too early in the year for a final but there could be a cool class of 5-6 year olds...
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


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  9. #9
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    Back in the dark ages Rolex ran a Prelim 3 Day, IIRC, along with the then 3* 3 Day, until sometime in the 1980's. They were both Long format.

    Again IIRC, the entries have been fairly static at 40-50 for the Advance level.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    Back in the dark ages Rolex ran a Prelim 3 Day, IIRC, along with the then 3* 3 Day, until sometime in the 1980's. They were both Long format.

    Again IIRC, the entries have been fairly static at 40-50 for the Advance level.
    Prelim 3 day, then Intermediate 3 day, then Intermediate HT, then Advanced HT then the *** when they added the ****.

    I've wished they'd go back to offering the Horse Trials since they dropped the ***. I understand making the seperate courses is a pain, but it is so much better for the spectators and really gives the horses and riders that aren't ready to do a **** a look at the environment.



  11. #11
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    They need to add something. The timing factor PD mentions... with long breaks... is one of the primary reasons I HAVEN'T gone in a number of years. Just can't justify the drive down and back for that kind of time. (2 hours plus traffic delays each way to watch less than 4 hours of rides) There are ways to schedule around the numbers if they opt to do it. Everything from a lottery for both, to skewing the numbers to give everyone in at the 4* and limit the whatever division to whatever time is left over. WE all knew the entries were going to be light this year based on the first couple weeks of posted entries. Can't tell me that TPTB didn't realize it.

    Of course the only ones that would object would be the vendors since everyone invades the trade fair during those long breaks. But perhaps it could be adjusted to stay open later (doesn't it close what most would feel is ridiculously early on Saturday?)
    ************
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAZ View Post
    Prelim 3 day, then Intermediate 3 day, then Intermediate HT, then Advanced HT then the *** when they added the ****.

    I've wished they'd go back to offering the Horse Trials since they dropped the ***. I understand making the seperate courses is a pain, but it is so much better for the spectators and really gives the horses and riders that aren't ready to do a **** a look at the environment.
    Thanks for expanding on my post. Agree either a 2* or 3* would be good for the up and comers horse/rider combos plus some of the 4* riders could ride their young horses. One way to limit the number of "lower level" competitors, if necessary, is to set qualifying requirements in order to maintain a sensible schedule.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tle View Post
    Of course the only ones that would object would be the vendors since everyone invades the trade fair during those long breaks. But perhaps it could be adjusted to stay open later (doesn't it close what most would feel is ridiculously early on Saturday?)
    Personally I refuse to shop during the lunch break because it's impossible! I try to get all my shopping done on Friday when there are less people and more stock. I think people would be happier not having the lunch break and having instead longer hours for the trade fair to spread out the crowds. But I can see how the vendors would be upset if the break were shortened because they get a huge amount of revenue in a short amount of time and don't have to worry about staffing longer hours. So I can see both sides of it.
    "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."

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  14. #14
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    I think it would be just the kind of addition to the schedule that would have a lot of benefit. Someone needs to tell DOC that when Rolex dropped the CCI*** is about the time our international prospects fell. Not that I really believe that's the problem, but giving young horses and riders the opportunity to compete in that atmosphere could only be beneficial to developing them in to world class competitors.

    On the trade fair issue an additional class would mean more time to shop on Thursday and Friday as the competition would start earlier and end later. As it is now I shop less because I don't want to miss what little dressage there is. Give me 70-80 horses and yeah, I'd get bored enough to leave the arena and go shop! As it is now I don't shop as much as I did when it was both the *** and the ****.


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  15. #15
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    The multitude of long breaks is BORING..just 2 hours for S/J and they whiz thru dressage again with long breaks....More people = more $$$ spent @ vendors... YEH competition would be awesome !!!!



  16. #16
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    Running a *** in some form might keep some of the inappropriate combinations out of the CCI****. You can still have Rolex as your goal without exceeding your capabilities.

    While I agree the long breaks don't make for the best day out, I prefer watching nothing to cringing at those who are not up to the level.


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  17. #17
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    I'd be in favor of a CCI 3*, not a CIC. It would be nice to have a maximum length CCI 3*. There are already too many CICs around as it is. If there isn't CCI support, IMO, they are headed for extinction.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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  18. #18

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    The issue with running a CCI is Jersey is this weekend and has had issues with entries. A CCI would completely wipe them out as everyone would want to run Kentucky. I can understand that KY needs something else, but I am all for supporting the events we already have. We don't have enough horses to have 5 CCI 3* in the US....


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    I'd be in favor of a CCI 3*, not a CIC. It would be nice to have a maximum length CCI 3*. There are already too many CICs around as it is. If there isn't CCI support, IMO, they are headed for extinction.
    I tend to agree with this, why not take advantage of the space and time to run a CCI? If we are to improve American eventing, we need to keep in mind the advantages that the European riders have and this is one of them. And I also agree with the fact that it will keep less prepared combinations out of the 4* but still give them the exposure and visibility afforded by the crowds at Rolex. Also, who wouldn't want to show their stuff in front of the (usually) entire High Performance team as well as the coaching staff? I think it would be a great opportunity.

    I also like the idea of a YEH running in conjunction but also am concerned with time if they were to add that and a ***. I think that YEH needs to be a more publicized program in the US as it encourages US breeding, IMO and that is one of the big issues that needs to improve as well.
    "Lord if we should fall, my horse and I, please pick my horse up first."

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelrider View Post
    The issue with running a CCI is Jersey is this weekend and has had issues with entries. A CCI would completely wipe them out as everyone would want to run Kentucky. I can understand that KY needs something else, but I am all for supporting the events we already have. We don't have enough horses to have 5 CCI 3* in the US....

    I agree...and that is why I thought CIC was better but I would prefer CCI*....I think there is more than enough support for those and it will get more competitors. Make it one that you have to qualify to get in more...so that it is really a show case.

    As for the YEH...there isn't a time issue. You run them in a different ring and at different times. Burghley did this. Separate ring with a few xc jumps. In my mind...this would replace some of the demonstrations. There is more than enough space at KHP for holding it together even with adding another level to Rolex.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



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