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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Aria View Post
    Knowing how explosive that family can get with foul language and - yes – their swinging hands, I can easily picture why the FBI would throw Christy to the floor and have to restrain the daughter. Oh yes, this is not a meek and mild family we’re talking about, they enjoy screaming and swearing and a good fight. That or the FBI had good reason to not trust those people and felt the floor was the best place for the mother. Just sayin'.

    I can vouch for this. At least the foul mouthed, thuggish behavior. I'd imagine in person they may not be real sweethearts if the felt you'd crossed them somehow and let me tell you the bar is pretty low for shady to feel this way.

    But I would imagine the FBI is following SOP, not specifically because the Shady family is any particularly any threat.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #282
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    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by sketcher View Post
    I can vouch for this. At least the foul mouthed, thuggish behavior. I'd imagine in person they may not be real sweethearts if the felt you'd crossed them somehow and let me tell you the bar is pretty low for shady to feel this way.

    But I would imagine the FBI is following SOP, not specifically because the Shady family is any particularly any threat.
    Well, no, it's not, unless they had weapons involved. Contrary to the movies or what certain gung-ho federalists believe, the FBI can't just go in with guns blazing and throwing people around unless they have a reason, and screaming doesn't count. Especially when they're not dealing with a violent crime. That's the kind of thing that gets cases into trouble by making it about police brutality. Unless they had a real, imminent reason to think their lives were in danger that makes it about mishandling by the agents, not the crime. Any smart lawyer knows that and it gives THEM figurative ammo.

    Which is why....pictures or it didn't happen, Christy. That's EXACTLY the kind of thing someone would say to try and make it about "Big bad feds vs. poor little innocent me." I very much doubt anyone was thrown to the floor or had guns to their head but I sure as heck could see the Shadies making up a story about it to feed the ZOMG VICTIM narrative.

    (And I can't watch video, so of course I didn't see it.)


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #283
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    Nov. 16, 2004
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    In the video, you could tell she was almost correcting herself about the events. She was careful about words, which makes me think she was wondering if she'd better not lie about the FBI. In other words, it looked like she was creating the scene in her head, but sort of back pedaling. It didn't seem consistent or true to me the way it would had someone really been through something that traumatic. It would roll off the tongue.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  4. #284
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    Aug. 21, 2012
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    Virginia
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    you would think that a reputable rescue would do checks on who actually buys these horses off of the lot. They don't It's first come, first serve and whoever sends in the first signed form and the first check full of money, gets the horse. Once money has been sent; no questions are ever asked.



  5. #285
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    Sep. 30, 2010
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    SE PA
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    The story about being thrown to the ground, and guns pointed at heads, came from Christy - which means very little to me, as I don't believe much of what she spouts.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  6. #286
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Please note I am NOT comparing AC4H to CANTER but if they were doing things correctly it would be similar in that they would simply list the broker owned horses to get them exposure due to their wide audience and let the broker handle everything else. No promises made, no checks done, no money changes hands, just get the word out. Then they would adopt/collect funds for the rescue owned horses and those funds would be used for their care and rehab as well the every day expenses of running a non profit. I am assuming those lines were very blurred to say the least wherein lies the problem.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by daisycutter87 View Post
    you would think that a reputable rescue would do checks on who actually buys these horses off of the lot. They don't It's first come, first serve and whoever sends in the first signed form and the first check full of money, gets the horse. Once money has been sent; no questions are ever asked.
    That is irrelevant. It is one business model vs another. I personally would not take a horse form a rescue that had a 10 page contract and kept ownership forever. I would however, agree to take a horse that a rescue had pulled from a lot to save it, with no strings attached. I guess it's all in how you look at it. If a horse truly gets pulled as a rescue, that is one more shot it has at a good life rather than a definite end of the line.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #288
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    Jun. 24, 2005
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    Lorena, Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by daisycutter87 View Post
    you would think that a reputable rescue would do checks on who actually buys these horses off of the lot. They don't It's first come, first serve and whoever sends in the first signed form and the first check full of money, gets the horse. Once money has been sent; no questions are ever asked.
    Rescues are 'damned if we do, damned if we don't'. We do have a contract, do follow-up visits, don't allow breeding, and allow limited rehoming. And people think we're too strict. Then if a rescue doesn't check out homes, follow-up, etc. other people come along to say that they're too lenient. My personal opinion is that there are many methods of 'rescue' (a word that is often used any more to mean even buying a horse from a home you don't like). If the rescue/organization/individual is following relevant laws, honest with their supporters, and ethical, the only people who should care about their exact methods (5 million follow-ups vs 2-3 follow-ups vs no follow-ups) should be the rescue and its supporters.

    It appears that that's not really applicable to AC4H (since it appears they violated all three of those things).
    Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

    Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com


    11 members found this post helpful.

  9. #289
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    May. 3, 2013
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    We purchased a rescue horse about 2.5 years ago from them, before we knew better. That being said, they were good through most of the buying process. I had a short list of horses that I was interested in seeing and wasn't interested in looking at any others. They kept trying to push one horse on us but we there was no way we were taking it. Took 3 tries to get it from the big field and then the horse pinned his ears back the minute the oldest daughter got on his back. The daughter purposely tried to get that horse to buck. Weird, especially since we already said we were interested when they couldn't catch it the first time. It was cold outside and there was no way I was purchasing a horse that I couldn't catch in a field. Besides, I had a solid list and wasn't interested in looking at any other horses.

    Ended up with a decent horse with no hidden problems. Horse was under weight when we got it which was odd since it had been in the rescue for months. I was also told it was registered. Once our money was paid it was a pain in the butt to get a pick up date. Finally, I just left a message saying when I was coming. The barn manager and I got in the truck and took off to pick it up. It was at her home. I called and called until I got through to someone that day and told them to get the horse ready. We showed up and everything went smoothly until I told them I wanted the registration paperwork. Told me that the registration stayed with the rescue. Hmm, so I get clear title to the horse but not the registration paperwork. I don't think so!! Christy wouldn't even come out of her bedroom to speak to me. Everything was done through her assistant or whomever that person was. Finally they agreed to give me a photo copy of it to appease me. That works! I called the registry and spoke to them. They contacted the previous owner. Yes, she had turned a horse matching my horse's description over to them. Yes, that was the horse's name, etc., etc. Everything matched. Registration was transferred. The Registry people were pissed! Said if I had the horse and clear title (which I faxed them) then the registration stays with the owner and NOT the rescue. All fixed.

    Was the horse everything they promised? No. I was told she was dead broke and knew how to drive. She is green broke and doesn't know any driving commands. But she's a great horse and we love her. Bottom line, that's all that matters.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #290
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    Nov. 16, 2004
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    NE Indiana
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    ^^Well, it's not all that matters . There is so much wrong with AC4H that it's hard to even list - and there will need to be other investigations by other authorities. The FBI is a start...but I want them to answer for not feeding the horses. For not feedding my horse, and hundred of others, and then they can go from there.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #291
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    Jul. 25, 2003
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    Boston Area
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    My limited, second hand experience with a horse that came from them would lead me to believe that food bills were not an issue for AC4H. I don't think anyone had fed that horse for a long time. He looked far worse than the photo I saw of him at New Holland.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #292

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    Sketcher
    I think its very relevent . You may consider yourself a good home and will fix up whatever horse you get.That is NOT the majority of people looking to "rescue a horse" There are good homes out there but we go through at least 10 or 20 applicants to find that one home. Why would we bother to help a horse if we are just goign to pass it out like Halloween candy. Most seem to fall in a few other categories. They either want a cheap horse that is disposable or for breeding theywant it because it's pretty or sad not even thinkging that the horse in the picture might be somewhat different than expected. Where do most of those horses passed out like candy to whoever comes along end up? Right back where they were or worse circling the drain starving or abused before finally ending up right back and the feedlot. What the heck is the point of wasting time and resources to just to prolong the inevitable. I dont know of any lifelong ownership 10 page contracts but it is pretty prudent to give a trial period and to make sure whoever owns the horse tommorow or 3 years from now knows the horse has a safety net for it if it looses it's value or home. Private sales do first refusal all the time it's no different . Rescues that actually care about the horses want to know the time and money they and the donors (if they are lucky enough ) spent is going to help that horse longer than a week or two . As far as buying a horse from a home beign rescue. The word gets tossed around a lot but if the horse is in a crappy home and someone buys it to uprgrade it's life its a good thing no less worthy than any other horse being helped They live 20 30 40 years who's to say if that person didnt come along that horse wouldnt have ended up in a feedlot and who is to say that if a "rescue" didnt buy a horse from auction that someone else might have stepped in to help it. There are all sorts of people and ways to help horses Saving one from the slaughter lot this time is just one day in a long life and one way to help but certainly not the only important work.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  13. #293
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    May. 3, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by hundredacres View Post
    ^^Well, it's not all that matters . There is so much wrong with AC4H that it's hard to even list - and there will need to be other investigations by other authorities. The FBI is a start...but I want them to answer for not feeding the horses. For not feedding my horse, and hundred of others, and then they can go from there.
    Sorry, that's not how I meant it but re-reading my post I can see how it came across that way. I meant that in my situation, it worked out well.

    She did try to steer me towards the broker horses but I definitely stayed away. I still can't wrap my mind around how that works anyway. And as there was no way I could see any of the broker horses first I couldn't purchase a horse for my daughter that I couldn't preview first.

    I do agree that after everything I've read, I got off lucky. If I had known what I know now, we never would have even gone up there. I definitely believe she should be fully investigated and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law by as many different agencies as necessary. Heck, just her bullying tactics should be reviewed by the local police.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #294
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    May. 17, 2010
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    Two points...

    1)
    For all of those who had decent dealings with AC4H, great! I'm truly glad it worked out for you as well as it did!
    But saying that is all that is important is that you recieved a horse you like is, IMHO, similar to saying "But the dog I got from a puppy mill was FINE, that's what matters, they find homes for puppies! All that other stuff doesn't really matter!"

    2)
    For every horse they have found a home for (however temporary that home is), they have likely turned off a person from ever considering adopting a horse or purchasing one from a similar broker situation.
    Between being antagonistic in person or on the phone to acting obnoxious on many online message boards, forums, and FB (not even mentioning the underhanded fundraising), AC$H has alienated many people who, rather than deciding to spend the time researching decent rescues and placement services, will simply decide most or all rescues are similar and will not donate, adopt or support in any manner horse rescues.
    And many will not "suffer in silence" - they will spread the word of how underhanded, criminal, nasty, etc. those horse rescue people are, harming those who do try to do it above board. And who ends up harmed? The horses.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  15. #295
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    Jan. 14, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassysmom View Post
    Sketcher
    There are good homes out there but we go through at least 10 or 20 applicants to find that one home. Why would we bother to help a horse if we are just goign to pass it out like Halloween candy.
    You completely missed the point which is that there are more than one business model for rescuing horses (and based on how many of them are run, I use the word 'business' lightly). 'Your' rescue might go through 10-20 applicants and 'my' rescue might pick them up at the auction and give them to the first person who comes along so that I can then go back to the auction and pull more. Two different philosophies, neither one wrong or right. Just different.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #296
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    Jun. 19, 2011
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    Good post Moon

    Many of us do have a history (as donors) with this group. I was asked to leave the rescue portion of TROT (I was not banned) as the ladies running it stated I was negative.. A Saddlebred was up for rescue..price $550.00 gelding..below average but not starvation...they claimed they gave shots and farrier but the picture (taken AFTER) did not reflect that.

    Donations came to about $350-$400 and the plea went out..save from slaughter save from slaughter. Many of us tossed $25.00 into the pool. We got close but no bananas. They would NOT drop the price

    Another case was a dual fund raising but one hand did not know about the other on FB. One person set their heart on the horse (don't remember what it was) and this time the amount was met AND an amnount to transport the horse to its new home.....BUT the horse "was gone" A FB group claimed it.

    On one hand I was happy the horse found a home but I was disappointed when the TROT group never even asked..want your money back (it was more than 25$) OR put towards another horse. They finally said (the trot group)...if you don't want it put towards saving another from slaughter then contact us.

    There seemed to be so many problems with 4H...my only consolation was, they did help pull ASB's from the "pen" and at least offer them

    Many anti slaughter posters have clearly stated on other threads that brokers shoud be FORCED to sell for what ever the bid price is plus ..maybe a dollar OR they should also be forced to sell to anyone who wants it from the pen after the KB has purchased it.

    If 4H disappears like many rescues are now doing..I do not think the brokers will become involved with reoffering. I do believe more horses will lack even the slightest chance of saving..but the more I read and am told..maybe that is a good thing

    Maybe this whole rescue movement is about as relevant as "save the cod fish".

    One thing..all of those who are anti slaughter NOW have an opportunity to form a save the horse group and get someone to start purchasing horses in the ring...get them for 25$ and up to $200 like the KB's do..

    Rescue is just big business with clothing on


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  17. #297
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    Oct. 12, 2005
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    Va
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    Two points...

    1)
    For all of those who had decent dealings with AC4H, great! I'm truly glad it worked out for you as well as it did!
    But saying that is all that is important is that you recieved a horse you like is, IMHO, similar to saying "But the dog I got from a puppy mill was FINE, that's what matters, they find homes for puppies! All that other stuff doesn't really matter!"

    2)
    For every horse they have found a home for (however temporary that home is), they have likely turned off a person from ever considering adopting a horse or purchasing one from a similar broker situation.
    Between being antagonistic in person or on the phone to acting obnoxious on many online message boards, forums, and FB (not even mentioning the underhanded fundraising), AC$H has alienated many people who, rather than deciding to spend the time researching decent rescues and placement services, will simply decide most or all rescues are similar and will not donate, adopt or support in any manner horse rescues.
    And many will not "suffer in silence" - they will spread the word of how underhanded, criminal, nasty, etc. those horse rescue people are, harming those who do try to do it above board. And who ends up harmed? The horses.
    This is so true. I'm one who would never again donate or adopt a horse from a rescue. Besides the shady dealings of so many faux rescues, the final straw is purchasing some poor animal and instead of euthanizing immediately, pump thousands of dollars into vet bills to either have to euthanize anyway, or end up with some crippled pasture pet instead of using the funds to help serviceable horses. When you're using donated funds, we actually DO expect you to use it wisely. I DO help individual horses when I can and have purchased to horses out of rescue situations on my own, kept them until they expired, one for 10 years, one for 12 and am currently awaiting delivery of my next case. But no more donations for me.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  18. #298
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    Jun. 27, 2005
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    If I recall correctly, weren't there some issues with both AC4H and VFH raising funds for the same horses without combining them?

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  19. #299
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    This is so true. I'm one who would never again donate or adopt a horse from a rescue. Besides the shady dealings of so many faux rescues, the final straw is purchasing some poor animal and instead of euthanizing immediately, pump thousands of dollars into vet bills to either have to euthanize anyway, or end up with some crippled pasture pet instead of using the funds to help serviceable horses. When you're using donated funds, we actually DO expect you to use it wisely. I DO help individual horses when I can and have purchased to horses out of rescue situations on my own, kept them until they expired, one for 10 years, one for 12 and am currently awaiting delivery of my next case. But no more donations for me.
    There's a difference...at least there should be, between a sanctuary and a rescue. And I agree, it's crazy to spend thousands on one horse when you could use that to rehab and adopt out 10 for the same amount of money.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  20. #300
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    Jun. 27, 2005
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    KY
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    Oh, this gets even more interesting:

    Celita Kramer claims that AC4H is trying to sell one of her horses.

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2005506&type=1

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



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