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  1. #41
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    I don't see how anyone can form an opinion based on the amount of information at hand. From the Post. And the Daily News.

    Really? The two articles even disagree on the amount of the lawsuit. And not by a small margin.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
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    Feb. 18, 2001
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    New York, NY
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    Just imagine my surprise when I woke up this morning and saw my trainer quoted in the Post! That doesn't happen every day.



  3. #43
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    Apr. 10, 2013
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    California
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    ..I'm going to go make myself feel better and clean the pee stains off my horse's coat...


    Sheesh, 175k for a pony. Wow.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
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    Dec. 5, 2004
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    Lexington, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    The plan was to START at $175,000, pay a minimum of $1,000 a week in expenses, and then flip or lease for a profit???

    Do we need a power point presentation on why this was unlikely to work?

    When math meets reality, it gets ugly.

    Actually, could be done if all went well. Young pony and lease prices for the really good ones are 100k+ for a year. So not crazy to think you could pay 175k, show for a year, and lease for many years and make a profit.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
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    Sep. 12, 2006
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    Loudoun County, Virginia!
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    isn't it relatively easy to see how old the founder event is? I thought they could make a pretty educated guess based on xrays and the hoof lines etc. Maybe that is what leads them to argue that this is something that the old trainers/brokers had prior knowledge of? I have got to think they are not stupid enough to risk a very visible lawsuit if there is a possibility that the pony foundered more recently...I could be wrong of course


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Aug. 25, 2005
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    Northeast
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    I suspect they bought and campaigned a pony who was a latent IR candidate. Somewhere along the line someone, overfed, or underworked said candidate, who ceased to be a candidate and graduated into the miserable group of foundered equines.

    It can happen in the blink of an eye, or something can precipitate it.

    It is a pony!!! Shetlands used to be notorious for this.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    May. 15, 2010
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    It can happen in the blink of an eye, or something can precipitate it.

    Sure it can founder in a blink but founder means the lamina is damaged, wall separating and coffin bone rotating down, all immediately very painful, animal is dead lame.....however the pony could have had 'laminitic' episodes where minor damage happens and with meds on board they continue to work but often the cycle repeats and damage continues, more meds are used, pads, wedges are added till nothing helps and oh my, everyone is surprised and shocked when they see x-rays.

    It is a pony!!! Shetlands used to be notorious for this.[/QUOTE]

    I don't know how tall the girl is but that pony is a duplicate of my hackney pony who was marketed (unsuccessfully) as a hunter/jumper by a trainer, little bugger could really jump but was wound too tight for a child and ended up in a rescue.
    Also it doesn't say when that picture was taken but those feet look healthy other than excessively tall for a jumper.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
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    Oct. 2, 2012
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    "But Tincher-Dildabanian said she was clearly victimized by a sale-hungry group and that the pony world is infested with shady characters. “There is incredible fraud in this business,” she insisted."

    Wha?!?! Really???!?!
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    Jun. 7, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by keepthelegend View Post
    Actually, could be done if all went well. Young pony and lease prices for the really good ones are 100k+ for a year. So not crazy to think you could pay 175k, show for a year, and lease for many years and make a profit.
    Sure, and when you have zero contacts in the industry you have to make an extra 20% just to break even after commissions.

    It's not crazy, but it's also not very likely.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Apr. 2, 2011
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    Westchester, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by keepthelegend View Post
    Actually, could be done if all went well.
    I have never met any horse person (including myself) who ever who actually thought all would go well. Usually because, in their experience, it never does.
    Currently blogging for Chronicle of the Horse. Articles can be found here: http://www.chronofhorse.com/category...ryan-lefkowitz


    9 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    Jun. 19, 1999
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    Averill Park NY and Citra Fl
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonterStables View Post
    I'm seriously beginning to wonder how much of an understanding concerning ETHICS these BNTs have. Drugging is as much of an MO in this sport as the non-disclosure of a horse or pony's issues is. As much as I have respect for Andre and Heritage Farm, I'm seriously beginning to wonder how many of their actively competing horses have the same said issues that this pony had that were not disclosed to this lady. I mean, think about this for a moment REALLY hard. Lillie Keenan is one of his riders. Granted Parkland is a lease for her, but that horse is currently stabled with him because of that fact. That horse dropped at the ring at WEF. Last year, Lillie had that incident with Bases Loaded in the ring. They've had more recent incidents than we've ever heard about and quite frankly, that's scary to me.

    But everybody knows that not disclosing the issues of a horse or pony is one of the biggest problems in this sport. That's why we have show horses like the one I leased who live on a regiment of joint injections, etc.
    SO unless the previous owners had a crystal ball and/or God shoes it would be impossible for them to do the "ethical" thing and predict a future founder event. It is disgusting that people choose to make their money the old fashioned way, by SUING for it. As bad a rap as horse dealers might enjoy, the suing public should enjoy equal time as amoral pieces of crap.
    The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
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    Jun. 12, 2007
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    Who knows what happened.

    Option A: Pony was fine until it was moved to a new barn where it was overfed/underexercised, then foundered.

    Option B: Pony was 'at-risk' for laminitis, maybe had a scare at some point. Trainer 1 knew this and managed pony accordingly, but didn't disclose to new owners and owners didn't know pony needed special management when they took it ouf of Trainer 1's care, then it foundered at new barn.

    Option C: Pony foundered and rotated with Trainer 0. Trainer 0 sold to Trainer 1 without disclosing. Pony was sound with Trainer 1, so they never found out. Trainer 1 sold on to current owner with no knowledge of founder.

    Option D: Pony had foundered and rotated with Trainer 1. This was not disclosed at the time of sale. [Maybe pony was sound and happy at time of sale, or the more sinister version, maybe pony was being medicated the whole time it was in Trainer 1's care.] When pony goes lame, new owner finds out by (running into old vet, running into old barn manager, people talk, etc.).

    Depending on the state law and the sale contract, there may be a claim in Option D as there should then be vet records proving that Trainer 1 knew/treated pony for founder.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
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    Mar. 21, 2013
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by joiedevie99 View Post
    Who knows what happened.

    Option A: Pony was fine until it was moved to a new barn where it was overfed/underexercised, then foundered.

    Option B: Pony was 'at-risk' for laminitis, maybe had a scare at some point. Trainer 1 knew this and managed pony accordingly, but didn't disclose to new owners and owners didn't know pony needed special management when they took it ouf of Trainer 1's care, then it foundered at new barn.

    Option C: Pony foundered and rotated with Trainer 0. Trainer 0 sold to Trainer 1 without disclosing. Pony was sound with Trainer 1, so they never found out. Trainer 1 sold on to current owner with no knowledge of founder.

    Option D: Pony had foundered and rotated with Trainer 1. This was not disclosed at the time of sale. [Maybe pony was sound and happy at time of sale, or the more sinister version, maybe pony was being medicated the whole time it was in Trainer 1's care.] When pony goes lame, new owner finds out by (running into old vet, running into old barn manager, people talk, etc.).

    Depending on the state law and the sale contract, there may be a claim in Option D as there should then be vet records proving that Trainer 1 knew/treated pony for founder.



  14. #54
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Or a variation on Option C: Pony foundered and rotated with Trainer ) and pony was sold to Trainer 1 knowing this but they managed it and sold pony on to current owner with out disclosing.



  15. #55
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    Dec. 22, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    I don't see how anyone can form an opinion based on the amount of information at hand. From the Post. And the Daily News.

    Really? The two articles even disagree on the amount of the lawsuit. And not by a small margin.
    This.

    ("thumbs up" wasn't going to cut it on this point.)
    ExchangeHunterJumper.com
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    9 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56
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    Aug. 9, 2000
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    Houston, TX
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    Clearly many of you have not been in a similiar situation so good for you. I have and if there is indeed sketchy stuff then I say more power to the lady with the lawsuit!


    6 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
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    Feb. 18, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blinky View Post
    Clearly many of you have not been in a similiar situation so good for you. I have and if there is indeed sketchy stuff then I say more power to the lady with the lawsuit!
    JMHO, but judging by the trainers involved in the sale(s) of said pony (one of whom I know very well), my money is more on the mom being naïve and not fully grasping the risks involved. Just because you pay six-figures for something, doesn't guarantee it sound for life.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #58
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    Apr. 29, 2011
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    Maryland
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    Whats with the random pics in the Post article of the PM pointing to said pony on a t-shirt?!

    And more seriously, WHY drag a child into this mess? She may be well known in the pony world, but why does all of NY (i.e., the world) need to see her face and know her name? She's 12! So inappropriate IMO
    Barn rat for life

    The Big Horse


    9 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
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    Jan. 7, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Sure, and when you have zero contacts in the industry you have to make an extra 20% just to break even after commissions.

    It's not crazy, but it's also not very likely.
    Even if she DOES have lots of contacts, at this level there will surely be commissions die. I doubt the likes of Heritage allow their clients to arrange lease deals for ponies in their care, even when the client is the owner of said pony.

    Back to the originally scheduled thread on yet another wealthy pony mom complaining about life being unfair...
    F O.B
    Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
    Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique



  20. #60
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    Sep. 12, 2006
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    I'm wondering why there is nothing up on ratemyhorsepro yet... I'm betting there is more to this story than a naïve mom and a recently foundered pony but I'm awfully curious!



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