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  1. #81
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    Aug. 10, 2008
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    My ex husband would snarl, "Oh, go to the damned barn, but you can't take the car, I might want to go somewhere. And you can't leave our daughter, I won't babysit for you to ride." My ex MIL frequently told me that it was WRONG for me to want to do anything that did not revolve around my husband, children and home. She really felt that it would not be enough for me to give up doing something I loved, but that I also should give up wanting to do it.

    There are people who really do think and feel this way, and always will. They were open about their 'men are entitled' beliefs. You may be married to one of these people, and he may not actually really grasp just how unfair he is being. I hope this is not the way your husband feels, but I suspect that it is. He may not realise he feels this way, which will make it more difficult to resolve this issue. He will just resent you for your interests, no matter what they are. I really hope you can work things out. There is something very soul-destroying about being told you should not want to do something you love.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #82
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    Aug. 22, 2001
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    Almost Aiken
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    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
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    Dec. 29, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    Anne, I believe Guilherme is not disagreeing with that a woman needs to have her own hobby or her own time or pursue her own passion. What he is disagreeing is the "way" to say it.
    I get that, but it is getting back again to the idea that women can't be forthright, can't be strong, can't be human but have to pussyfoot around and watch what they say and how they say it. I do understand your point and Guilherme's too, really, and agree; however, in the specific context under discussion the negative reaction was to the suggestion by a poster saying that riding was her stress reliever and she needed it. When men & women take that simply truthful statement as confrontational, hostile, striking a blow, issuing ultimatums, I'm going to disagree. Which I did.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
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    Dec. 2, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    the idea that women can't be forthright, can't be strong, can't be human but have to pussyfoot around and watch what they say and how they say it.
    The tip toe around the male ego? The poor fragile male ego.... that some women bolster to be taken care of.
    The truth is what you can get other people to believe.

    -- Tommy Smothers


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #85
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    Nov. 1, 2005
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    The Prairie
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    And some people say feminism is irrelevant in 2013. Sigh.
    I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  6. #86
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    Oct. 12, 2001
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    are there really people who do nothing except work and then go home and be with their spouse every single night of the week? because even non-horse people don't do that. They go to the gym, they go to yoga classes, they go running; they join clubs and attend meetings; they go out with friends after work; they do volunteer work; they go shopping. Something.
    It seems really unreasonable to me that any person would get upset about their spouse doing something only two nights a week.


    16 members found this post helpful.

  7. #87
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    Jul. 11, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by pony grandma View Post
    The tip toe around the male ego? The poor fragile male ego.... that some women bolster to be taken care of.
    Phew! How sweet. Fragile egos? Who can't tolerate being told what they don't wish to hear? Not getting their ways? For SO's to demand anything of them? For not fulfilling their entitlement hissies? Hint...it's not just guys.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #88
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    Feb. 26, 2011
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    Its not nowhere, but you can see it from here
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    are there really people who do nothing except work and then go home and be with their spouse every single night of the week? because even non-horse people don't do that. They go to the gym, they go to yoga classes, they go running; they join clubs and attend meetings; they go out with friends after work; they do volunteer work; they go shopping. Something.
    It seems really unreasonable to me that any person would get upset about their spouse doing something only two nights a week.
    Sadly, my husband is one of these people. He works 14-16 hours/day 7 days a week. He used to do 7 weeks of rec league basketball, but missed it this year. I had him signed up to do flag football this spring, but we have had snow every freaking Monday.

    He really is fine just coming home. He is also fine with me getting a sitter or dropping our children off at the dairy if I need to go somewhere. He doesn't expect me to be home with him, he just would rather be home than out doing something else, unless it is a cow sale or something. He is taking a half day to take the kids to the zoo, so he isn't a complete hermit!!

    I have a friend who wouldn't do anything on the weekends because her husband traveled 4 days a week for work and she wanted to spend Sat -Mon with him. I would probably shoot myself if DH and I had 3 days non stop of each other
    From AliCat518 "Seriously, why would you NOT put fried chicken in your purse?!"



  9. #89
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    Aug. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    are there really people who do nothing except work and then go home and be with their spouse every single night of the week? because even non-horse people don't do that. They go to the gym, they go to yoga classes, they go running; they join clubs and attend meetings; they go out with friends after work; they do volunteer work; they go shopping. Something.
    It seems really unreasonable to me that any person would get upset about their spouse doing something only two nights a week.
    Most non-horse people I know do just that. Work then home. The occasional outing, usually for errands but most plopped in front of the TV or computer at home. I do t talk a out my activities with them because it seems to make them feel bad. My husband and I are pretty active, usually together. I found a way to incorporate him into my riding time (he trail runs on the trails with me or rides his bike, he exercises or plays on his phone if I do arena work).


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
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    Oct. 16, 2008
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    Central Oklahoma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    I get that, but it is getting back again to the idea that women can't be forthright, can't be strong, can't be human but have to pussyfoot around and watch what they say and how they say it. I do understand your point and Guilherme's too, really, and agree; however, in the specific context under discussion the negative reaction was to the suggestion by a poster saying that riding was her stress reliever and she needed it. When men & women take that simply truthful statement as confrontational, hostile, striking a blow, issuing ultimatums, I'm going to disagree. Which I did.
    Anne, I'm confused why you think being kind and calm and diplomatic (yes, even around your husband) is being weak, not forthright, or even pussyfoot. They cannot be more different from each other. Pussy foot? Did you never meet anyone who can dominate a room without ever raising a voice? How Sad! No strong man will love a woman who are pussy foot around them. No strong man will love a woman who can't communicate without throwing a tantrum either!

    It is good to tell husband that riding is stress reliever. This is part of marriage life: you talk with your spouse about your feelings about things: horses, neighbors, the society, whatnot. What is is NOT OK is to say, "I'm going to do it, regardless," even if it is a stress reliever. The former is a communication. The later is an ultimatum. The former opens a communication channel; the later shut it down. The result will be vast different.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
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    Dec. 29, 1999
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    Gloria, don't put words in my mouth. If you don't get it, you don't get it. Your first sentence is entirely not what I said, which if you read my post you know perfectly well, therefore it's not worth discussing with you. Twist and manipulate away, sweetie. You say you're confused. I can't help that you cannot understand.

    I would repost what Trakehner wrote above but he already said it well. Your post reminds me of that type of person.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
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    Apr. 14, 2007
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    Pen Argyl PA
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    why is not ok? A woman can't make a decision for herself or her well being?

    Who said anything about throwing a tantrum? or raising her voice? I think you are interpreting what was written as much different as it was presented.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
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    Jun. 7, 2006
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    Some things really are non-negotiable. Why pretend they are negotiable when they aren't? Be honest about the fact that it is a non-negotiable position for you.

    Saying, "No, I will never do a threesome with you and the neighbor," is not an ultimatum. It is simply stating a non-negotiable condition.

    Saying, "No, I never want children" is not an ultimatum. It is simply stating a non-negotiable condition. You can not compromise on whether or not there is a child in the home. There either is, or there is not.

    For some people, riding is non-negotiable. "I will never give it up" is how it is.

    If one party's non-negotiable condition is a non-negotiable problem for the other party, then decisions need to be made.

    One of my brothers was in a relationship where he stated that NO KIDS was his position and it would not change. The woman wanted children and left him for that reason 48 hours later. When non-negotiable conditions clash, decisions need to be made. There is no point in pretending you may be convince-able if you really are not. The question then becomes can the other party accept it or not. They may agree with your position, they may not care either way and be fine with whatever is important to you, or decisions may need to be made.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  14. #94
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    Oct. 16, 2008
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    Central Oklahoma
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    Again, it is "how" it is said, not "what" is said.

    If this is so difficult to understand, oh well...


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
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    Nov. 18, 2004
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    Catonsville, MD
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    But the point that Anne is making so eloquently is that she finds it unacceptable that women may not be direct in our communications style, that directness itself is deemed confrontational. When men are 'direct', they are praised for it. It's another kind of prison when women are held responsible for the happiness of everyone in the room, and are forbidden culturally from just flat out saying what we mean. If saying what we mean constitutes going to war, then, wow.

    It is also very telling that when Anne says 'directness', y'all say: confrontation, ultimatum, demands, fighting, etc.
    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09



    11 members found this post helpful.

  16. #96
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    Aug. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lori B View Post
    But the point that Anne is making so eloquently is that she finds it unacceptable that women may not be direct in our communications style, that directness itself is deemed confrontational. When men are 'direct', they are praised for it. It's another kind of prison when women are held responsible for the happiness of everyone in the room, and are forbidden culturally from just flat out saying what we mean. If saying what we mean constitutes going to war, then, wow.

    It is also very telling that when Anne says 'directness', y'all say: confrontation, ultimatum, demands, fighting, etc.

    There's a difference between directness and ultimatums and I think they're beig confused here.

    When you say (using my own words) things like:
    -I'm not quitting so suck it up
    - if you don't like it leave
    - I'm not sitting riding so deal with it or else
    ..and and up threatening to end the relationship from the jump, yes that's an ultimatum. When you take directness and add the "or else" that turns it into something bigger.

    There's no reason why you can't be direct without hinting or threatening a divorce. You should never be telling your spouse things like suck it up or get out. If you're going to be threatening to end the relationship from the moment an issue comes up then there's bigger problems. If you want out, get out but don't use a disagreement as an excuse.

    I have zero problems being direct with my husband and "setting my foot down" so to speak. However I'm not going to go into the whole "I'm not your slave angle"'or the "how dare you" angle because those are confrontations. I try to keep to a "how can we work this out" approach.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #97
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    Sep. 20, 2005
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    Eh, when someone is being ridiculous, I'm not super inclined to cater to them with "how can we work this out".

    On the other hand, I would never have any inclination to stay with someone that behaved the way OP's husband is behaving. Horses for courses, and all of that, I guess.

    I do find it odd that so many are of the opinion that you can't make a statement of fact because that's being confrontational. I'm also genuinely curious how a "non-confrontational" conversation would go in this case. Because it seems to me that those telling the OP to dance around the issue are actually suggesting that she attempt to appease her husband. If husband is being an asshat, why should I go out of my way to appease him? He's an adult. He should act like one.

    Second (or third) question - what if husband's response to said "non-confrontational" conversation is "You will quit riding twice a week". Is he now being the confrontational one? Or is that okay because he has the penis?
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    7 members found this post helpful.

  18. #98
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    Eh, when someone is being ridiculous, I'm not super inclined to cater to them with "how can we work this out".

    On the other hand, I would never have any inclination to stay with someone that behaved the way OP's husband is behaving. Horses for courses, and all of that, I guess.

    I do find it odd that so many are of the opinion that you can't make a statement of fact because that's being confrontational. I'm also genuinely curious how a "non-confrontational" conversation would go in this case. Because it seems to me that those telling the OP to dance around the issue are actually suggesting that she attempt to appease her husband. If husband is being an asshat, why should I go out of my way to appease him? He's an adult. He should act like one.

    Second (or third) question - what if husband's response to said "non-confrontational" conversation is "You will quit riding twice a week". Is he now being the confrontational one? Or is that okay because he has the penis?
    Like so many of the "equine feminists" you have made the mistake of removing this issue from the Big Picture. It's not about the horses, it's about something else. And because NEITHER you nor I are there we don't KNOW what that "something else" is.

    You also don't understand the concept of "amity-enmity." This says that to your friends you are friendly and to your enemies you are hostile. Your approach puts the husband in the "enemy" camp. Maybe you're right, but the evidence for that classification is non-existent. Which means that, without any cause whatsoever, you precipitate a fight.

    I understand that many women have been burned by jerks. There are very few men that post here and that means that we don't get the other side of the story (from men who were burned by women behaving badly).

    Those of us who have had "real world" experience counseling people with problems know that "a soft answer turneth away wrath." It doesn't matter whether or not the person making the soft answer has a penis or not. Nor does it mean that the soft answer will ultimately lead to a positive outcome. The stark truth is that 50% of marriages end up in divorce. But to "come out swinging" because to do otherwise is a sign of weakness (by either the male or the female) is monumentally stupid if the goal is to fix the problem.

    Of course, if the goal is to set up an excuse for a beakup then that's another question.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    5 members found this post helpful.

  19. #99
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    OP- I think the dive class is a great idea. I'm not sure where you are but you might also look into a class or activity that your husband can do with your son; ideally one where there are other dads with their kids. If your son is excited about his night alone with daddy and they're doing something, like a munchkin gymnastics or swim class, where your husband feels he's helping your baby grow into a little man, he might start to enjoy time as "just the guys".


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #100
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    Oct. 16, 2008
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    Central Oklahoma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lori B View Post
    But the point that Anne is making so eloquently is that she finds it unacceptable that women may not be direct in our communications style, that directness itself is deemed confrontational. When men are 'direct', they are praised for it. It's another kind of prison when women are held responsible for the happiness of everyone in the room, and are forbidden culturally from just flat out saying what we mean. If saying what we mean constitutes going to war, then, wow.

    It is also very telling that when Anne says 'directness', y'all say: confrontation, ultimatum, demands, fighting, etc.
    OK. Maybe we are all saying the same thing, just different mindset.... The thing is, no one has said direct communication is unacceptable, not even Guilherme, who as a guy uses an even more direct mode of writing style than most women are accustomed to. Part of communication is "direct communication"; also true is that good communication demands smart diplomacy.

    What got railed is when someone cautioned to be smart about how to go about dealing with this potential difficult situation, it is labeled as "pussyfoot" or "weak," which can't be farther from the truth.

    And I'm saying this because I know exactly where it is from. I used to (still am) to be confrontational. I grew up in a very controlling environment, where as the eldest daughter is expected to be subservient to everyone, including the male sibling (the heir to the family). I had to fight not to be treated like a servant, which earned me all sorts of names; that was what I thought lives were about: fight. It was not until I met my husband that I finally opened my eyes: he taught me how a calm approach and wise communication can get things done better. Honestly if not for his very wise approach dealing with all the differences between us, I would not still have this marriage. So far we have been married for twelve years, been together fifteen. He is my biggest fan and supporter of my horse obsession, - he hauls, loads, braids, fetches stuff for me, - we spend outrageous amount of money on horses, and he does not even ride!


    4 members found this post helpful.

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