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  1. #61
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    OP, you have gotten some good advice and you seem to have a plan, good for you, hope it works out. Now for those of you not yet married, marry a golfer, they have a hobby that will keep them busy for 4-5 hours and that gives you a nice chunk of free time to ride, works out very well.


    16 members found this post helpful.

  2. #62
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    And more important than a hobby, when you are choosing a spouse: don't reproduce with anyone who isn't as invested in having children as you are, unless you want to do all the care. And believe me, you do not.

    And flat out tell them: you will do solo child care some part of the time, just as I will. You will not whine. You will learn what is necessary to do this competently, just as I will. Husbands do not 'babysit', they care for their own children just as mothers do, and doing so isn't some kind of cosmic super special good deed favor they are doing you, it's the job of parenting, and if your spouse isn't prepared to own this fact now and going forward, babies are a guarantee of strife and unhappiness and servitude for the person who wants 'em more.

    I think that a lot of these problems come from the fact that more than a few mothers I know wanted children more than their spouses, who largely acquiesced to parenthood, rather than being 100% all about it. Knowing this is true, women are then timid about demanding a full share of childcare gruntwork from their spouses, and men think this is how it should be.
    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09



    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nezzy View Post
    Explain to your hubby that this is your therapy. it is your stress relief. And that you will NOT be stopping. He needs to understand that you are not a subservient wife. You are an individual who needs this. yes if he cannot handle taking care of your baby, then maybe a babysitter will be the solution.
    Guilherme calls the above statement "feminine machismo," a "confrontation," and "fight." Wow.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  4. #64
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    Warning...long post!!

    OP, I feel ya! Also mil to mil AF here, my husband and I had this same issue when we were first married (for about 2 years). We had dated off and on for 7 years prior to getting married and I rode 6 days a week throughout that ENTIRE time except for the 6 months I was downrange. So I was a little surprised that HE was surprised that I was still riding 6 days a week after we got married

    Fast forward 7 years and we now have a small farm with the horses at home and he actually really likes them...and is very supportive of my riding now! But we went through 2 years of what you are dealing with-minus the kiddo...

    Some things that worked for us, and some things to consider...

    What Guilherme said is totally true...there are some military aspects to consider here. What career field is he in? What about you? Who outranks who? Is he coming from a place at work where he's used to being in charge? Are you? My husband and I are both super Type A personalities, in charge of a lot of people and huge operations at work...coming home and trying to figure out marital roles is tough...counseling helped me, lots of calm RATIONAL talking helped him.

    Something that non-mil families don't get is the separation aspect and also who his peers are at work. AWFUL STEREOTYPE AHEAD: many mil wives are in very traditional roles at home...they don't have jobs outside the home, they certainly don't have expensive time consuming hobbies like riding...so his buds at work could be feeding some of this, when he complains because you're spending time and money at the barn, they are all appalled because that is soooo far outside the norm for any of them, and they could be feeding your husbands frustration...AWFUL STEREOTYPE OVER

    The posters that talked about it being good for your mental health are right on IMO. I'm not advocating a blow out confrontation, but a calm rational discussion (or 10) about how this is what makes you happy, reduces your stress and makes you a better wife and mother. That was a big piece for my husband, to really understand that when I don't ride I'm cranky and irritable and when I do ride, I'm happy and easier to deal with.

    What helped us, and I recommend it to you, is talking about give and take and fairness. You guys are working the same amount, and making approximately the same amount of money (I assume). There are 7 days in the week. You want two days after work to do your hobby, or to just lay on the ground and look at the clouds. You want to give him 2 days a week to do the same. That leaves 3 days a week to do things together as a family (all 3 of you). How you each use your days is up to you. You need to figure out what you want and what he wants during those together times as well.

    Something like that divides up your child care times equally and gives him time to do what he wants, diving, hanging with friends, whatever and gives you time together as a family.

    I do think there is something larger going on here, it's almost NEVER about the actual horses. He either resents the time you spend away from him, resents having to care for your son alone, or something else. Does he want you three to spend all of your non-working hours together? Is he stressed about the cost? My husband had a combo of financial concern (unfounded) and resentment that I was choosing to spend time with my horse over him.

    You need to determine what his idea of "how married life should be" is...counseling can help with this. But another fun aspect of the military is that most of us (esp the guys) want NOTHING to do with counseling! If he's open to that at all, RUN there!

    You haven't mentioned a TDY or deployment schedule, is he gone a lot? My husband was and that was part of his problem, when he was home, he wanted to spend time AT HOME with ME. I had to explain that while that time was important to me too, I had a life too and couldn't hinge my weekly schedule on his unpredictable travel schedule...BUT that I would set aside 2 days and one weeknight to spend time with him. He appreciated that plan and that I would put forth the effort to set aside that time for him and for us.

    I will tell you that there is light at the end of the tunnel! If he is a good guy and you both try to be fair with each other you can work out something that makes sense.

    I also think that for what you are trying to do, 2 nights a week, you should NOT get a babysitter! If his problem is that he's uncomfortable taking care of his son, address that with education or classes, but your child is at daycare or the CDC 5 days a week already, Dad can take care of his son two nights a week! IF you got a babysitter, would he be off doing a hobby? Although, one alternative schedule you could think about is to have you guys do your hobby on the same two nights, get a babysitter, and then have 5 nights together as a family? If spending time all 3 of you is his big issue, then hiring a sitter to maximize your nights together would make sense.

    The biggest thing I found is to talk about this stuff RATIONALLY and WITHOUT EMOTION, when you get upset, angry, whatever, it derails the whole conversation. Try to be fair and figure out what it is that he wants and articulate what you want in a very calm and clear way.

    Good luck! I empathize with you very much! Let us know how it's going!
    TPR!
    Thoroughbred Placement Resources, Inc
    www.goodhorse.org


    12 members found this post helpful.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    Guilherme calls the above statement "feminine machismo," a "confrontation," and "fight." Wow.
    Yup...l called it that because that's what it was. The sentence "And that you will NOT be stopping." is not an offer of discussion, it's a state of clear intent. That makes it a confrontation. It's likely the first blow. It may or may not be "feminine machismo." (Or would that be "feminine machisma"?).

    The world is full of solutions to problems that simple, direct, and wrong. This approach is one of them.

    The OPs idea of diving lessons is a very good one. It may or may not address the real issue (which not one poster here, save the OP, has any real idea about). It is a positive step. Confrontation (which the OP states has already occurred) is a negative step.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #66
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    We'll agree to disagree. Women expressing a desire/will/determination to do something is not women being confrontational or "striking a blow." That's a ridiculous myth we women have been hearing for hundreds of years. "She wants to do something outside the home? All for herself? She's sticking to it? And I have to "babysit" my own child 2 evenings out of 7? That BITCH." It's about time both sexes got past this.

    Agree about pacifying hubs with diving lessons or whatever else his heart desires to help them both lead fuller lives by helping one another do so and making their time together more valued and interesting & taking pride in each other's interests and successes.


    16 members found this post helpful.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    We'll agree to disagree. Women expressing a desire/will/determination to do something is not women being confrontational or "striking a blow." That's a ridiculous myth we women have been hearing for hundreds of years. "She wants to do something outside the home? All for herself? She's sticking to it? And I have to "babysit" my own child 2 evenings out of 7? That BITCH." It's about time both sexes got past this.

    Agree about pacifying hubs with diving lessons or whatever else his heart desires to help them both lead fuller lives by helping one another do so and making their time together more valued and interesting & taking pride in each other's interests and successes.
    In a "stand alone," academic discussion you might be right. In the present context you are completely wrong.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #68
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    Anne, I believe Guilherme is not disagreeing with that a woman needs to have her own hobby or her own time or pursue her own passion. What he is disagreeing is the "way" to say it. Giving an ultimatum (the my way or highway style) is simple and easy, but ultimately wrong in this scenario. Remember this is a husband, not a stranger or an enemy. This is a man she has pledged her life and have a child with. In order for a marriage to work, both sides need to compromise, and that compromise includes the willingness to stop saying what you like to say, but saying what will ultimately lead to satisfaction on both sides.

    There are many ways to be firm and strong, and express what she wants without causing a blowout. Ultimatum should only be reserved for the very last resort. Oh and this applies to "both" sides, not just female.


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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    Confrontation (which the OP states has already occurred) is a negative step.

    G.
    The fact that most people cannot separate "conversation" from "confrontation," especially when trying to resolve a problem, is indicative of a mass failure of communication skills in this society.

    When the barn owner catches a boarder riding too late at night, do they start with "WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON IN HERE?" or do they start with, "Hello?" Generally it is the former, although usually the boarder isn't deaf and can probably hear the same communication without all of the puffery.

    When someone has an issue with their neighbor's dog for whatever reason, do they huff and puff and yell over their side of the fence, or do they feel the need to STORM UP the porch, ring the doorbell furiously, and commence yelling the second the door opens a crack or are they CAPABLE of approaching their neighbor politely and starting calmly with "Hello?"

    When someone comes up to you yelling and stomping on your porch over something you had no idea was going on, do you immediately yell back or are you CAPABLE of saying, "Hey, whoa, would you like to come in? Perhaps I can understand the problem better if we start from the beginning. Can I offer you anything to drink?" This is assuming the other party hasn't stomped up, yelled three sentences, and then stormed off again before you can even respond while you are standing there with your mouth open in your towel.

    One of the secretaries at work repeatedly complains about her neighbor calling about her dog barking all the time 'just to spite them'. I always say, "Have you ever gone over there with a plate of brownies and apologized for the noise your dog makes and outlined the steps you are taking to try to solve the problem?"

    The OTHER secretary at work has a neighbor whose dog barks. She is REALLY MAD about this dog barking and her husband is going to GO OVER THERE AND GIVE THEM A PIECE OF HIS MIND. Me: "Have you tried going over there with a plate of brownies and bringing it up calmly first? Perhaps if you give them a chance to solve the problem they will."

    My brother once came out of his apartment and found somebody immediately ceasing what they were doing, running over to him over where he had parked his car, and commence aggressively shouting and carrying on. It was some guy who has to do whatever thing for the property every week. There was yelling and screaming and carrying on and when he was given a single MOMENT to interject, my brother said simply, "How can I help you?" Completely changed the entire conversation. The solution was to park his car on the other end of the lot on whatever day of the week so the guy would have an easier time turning his truck around, which my brother was perfectly happy to do and did not need to be shouted at to agree to. Why this could not be discussed in a reasonable manner is beyond me. 99% of people would have IMMEDIATELY shouted back but my brother to his credit did not.



    1% of the population has that level of communication skills. Other people don't KNOW HOW to communicate without being confrontational. They either avoid the issue entirely or work themselves up into a froth until they are brave enough to spit it out. The strategy is to hit first and hit hard and make sure for the love of God that the other party is just caught up in the wave of ire and can't even formulate a response. Actually giving the other party room to respond (when they have done everything in their power to ensure that they yell back) makes them feel too vulnerable, so they just puff puff puff and then run off before anyone can answer. Hey, the other party might agree with you and be perfectly happy to come up with a solution if you give them a chance! They will probably be perfectly happy to keep their dog out of your yard if you inform them that the fence has been breached while they were showering and needs reinforcements.

    Meanwhile if someone is on the receiving end of this nonsense, they have no idea how to change the communication for the better by simply communicating calmly in return.

    They don't know any better.
    Last edited by meupatdoes; May. 1, 2013 at 11:27 AM.


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  10. #70
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    When I was single and dating the guys thought my horse activities were so cool. If we continued dating there usually came a time when they couldn't understand why time with the horses wasn't turning into time with them. I think it's how they measured their importance in my life. I think its a shame OP has to run home after her lessons. Half the fun is the camaraderie in a good barn.
    I hope offering him dive lessons helps but my experience is that hobby-less people are very difficult to motivate. And those who are self motivated already have hobbies.
    One way to look at it is how much are you willing to compromise if it leads to a life filled with not getting to do what you want.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    Anne, I believe Guilherme is not disagreeing with that a woman needs to have her own hobby or her own time or pursue her own passion. What he is disagreeing is the "way" to say it. Giving an ultimatum (the my way or highway style) is simple and easy, but ultimately wrong in this scenario. Remember this is a husband, not a stranger or an enemy. This is a man she has pledged her life and have a child with. In order for a marriage to work, both sides need to compromise, and that compromise includes the willingness to stop saying what you like to say, but saying what will ultimately lead to satisfaction on both sides.

    There are many ways to be firm and strong, and express what she wants without causing a blowout. Ultimatum should only be reserved for the very last resort. Oh and this applies to "both" sides, not just female.
    You got it!!!

    Sadly, the rise of "electronic social media" has seriously degraded old fashioned "communication skills." On TV how many heroes/heroines begin a conversation in a casual manner (a la Columbo)? There was a piece I read the other day about recent college grads in interviews, and how one in five is disqualified for poor social skills during the interview (answering their phone; texting; laying in a chair; one word answers; etc.).

    A couple of months ago an e-mail was addressed to me (as part of a group) accusing me of gross wrongdoing and calling me everything but my given name. Since I had not had any contact with the sender (a retired lawyer, old enough to have known better) in several months my first reaction was "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???" I wrote a rather terse reply that I did not send. I then made inquiry about the communication. When I found out that the alleged miscreant was the first person in the list (and since we were all on the same board of directors we all got "tarred" with the same brush) I archived my response and never sent it. Sometimes age does bring wisdom.

    meupatdoes is quite correct that some folks see any disagreement with an idea of theirs as an attack upon their intellect, character, honesty, etc. Electronic social media seems to amplify this tendency. In our society the logical fallacy of argumentum ad hominem is pandemic. That bodes ill for any effective addressing of any issue (potentially contentious or not).

    A parallel tendency is to pull things out of context and then ignore the context; this is equally troubling. Sometimes things do have to be removed to be effectively discussed, but then they have to be put back when they came from.

    A good offense is not always the best defense; and winning a battle is not always the way to win a war.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    6 members found this post helpful.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    We'll agree to disagree. Women expressing a desire/will/determination to do something is not women being confrontational or "striking a blow." That's a ridiculous myth we women have been hearing for hundreds of years. "She wants to do something outside the home? All for herself? She's sticking to it? And I have to "babysit" my own child 2 evenings out of 7? That BITCH." It's about time both sexes got past this.
    It's about not issuing ultimatums. I mean, if she wants to say that, fine, she should be prepared if he says "Fine" and walks out, leaving her with the baby and the horse. If the OP is on a leave from work to care for the baby, and he's on duty all day (I'm assuming neither is deployed), yeah, I think it's reasonable for her to do more of the home work. My mother quit her job to raise the kids, and she didn't expect my father to get home from 40 hours of work and do 50% of everything at home, too. Doing a 40+ hour week (admittedly I'm on my feet more than my dad, who was an engineer and did law work on the side) and having to come home and do everything myself, too, I find that more than reasonable. That's before you bring military family tensions into it. Not to mention I completely understand the old-school trend to farm childcare out to the hired help if you can afford it because babies are a ton of work and terrifyingly needy to boot. He may not want to be alone with a young child because he doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't want to express it that way. Which is something counselling, rather than "I'm gonna go ride horsey and spend hours at the barn afterwards [something I don't get as I liked when no one was around at the barn] and I don't care about your feelings on the subject, there will be no compromise" can address. Not being a bitch about it does not mean giving up riding, it means making an effort to find out what the problem is and finding a way to address it.



  13. #73
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    To clarify- i did not say for her to issue an ultimatum. But i did say she should tell him she is not stopping just b/c he wants her to. The father of the child should be able to watch his own child 2 night a week while she gets her equine therapy If she starts putting up with high demands, then she will ALWAYS have to put up with them. a marriage is a partnership. no one should have to be bullied into stopping an activity they enjoy. standing up for oneself is not being a bitch. If you think that is a being a bitch you have never met some real bitches.


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  14. #74
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    Very sorry for you OP, you're in a tough situation. I don't have any advice for you, but want to wish you the best of luck.
    I LOVE my Chickens!


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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    From the OPs story I see an iceberg. That means I see about 10% of the problem. That means there's 90% of the problem I don't see. Under such circumstances rendering advice is difficult to the point of being presumptuous.
    I wholeheartedly agree from experiences in my past relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jealoushe View Post
    I said look, things are never going to change for me; either accept it or move on. He has accepted it and the horses are no longer an issue.
    I did the same with my hubby. At the beginning of the relationship, which is what I feel was important. I saw it as the equivalent of single mom with kids, you get the single mom but only if you accept the kids. If I had started riding later on and all of a sudden started spending hours at the barn, I could imagine some resentment may form if I "abandoned" him and the routine we had built.

    My husband and I are a very "split down the middle" kind of couple. Expenses and such are all contributed to equally by both. He and I don't have human kids yet, but we've already had the discussion and agreed to split "me" time. If I spend time with the horses sans kids, he gets to take the same amount of time for his own hobbies sans kids.
    But, right now, I spend every single day with those monsters and he has never questioned it. But over our 6 years together, I have always spent every single day with those monsters, so he doesn't know much different.



  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizbachfan View Post
    OP, you have gotten some good advice and you seem to have a plan, good for you, hope it works out. Now for those of you not yet married, marry a golfer, they have a hobby that will keep them busy for 4-5 hours and that gives you a nice chunk of free time to ride, works out very well.
    Yup, married to a golfer for almost 43 years
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBD View Post
    ... but my experience is that hobby-less people are very difficult to motivate. And those who are self motivated already have hobbies.
    This is absolutely my observation and experience as well. It is never really about the horses, btw.
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/


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  18. #78
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    There is some GREAT advice on this post! I only wish I would've seen it 3+ years ago... Divorced, sold the farm, and got out of horses... I am just now getting back into it, on a very low level. Knee issues to boot :/

    My Ex-husband initially had fun with the horses and included himself often, then he started to resent the "horses"... Then he full blown spit fire and resented them, as they became known... I read this post and was instantly like "Rut-Ro, that sounds familiar"

    My experience of the downward slope was similar to what you are experiencing, at first, so nip it in the bud NOW.

    Honestly, my time away from home was only one night per week at the time and the shows on the weekends, which I usually took the kids to if he was working, otherwise he generally went along. The rest of my time devoted was during the hours that he worked.

    For me, it was a lifestyle for most of my life and I forewarned him (when we met) that I had a plan and that "such and such" is what I wanted to eventually do. When the time was right he allowed me to quit my job and start a business. A business that I financed, I did all of the work, and I LOVED more than anything. 2 years into it, I was making as much as I did on my job and I had less time involved, it just overlapped into "his time" on occasion - the start of it... 5 years into it I was making almost as much as he was, we started enjoying a little better of a lifestyle - but those horses, those damned horses...

    Well, now I'm single. I relocated up North to where I was raised and sold EVERYTHING from my breeding stock to the water troughs. I work P/T for the Postal Service, sell tack on the side, and I own two horses. One that I raised from birth (lifelong companion and the Family Pony) and another who is a toss up, I haven't decided yet if he's a keeper but we bond REALLY well so I have taken him off the market to give it a shot. I currently rent a home that I can keep them at and I have a garden It aint much but it's better than what I had.

    I look back and my marriage was in trouble when it started. My independence was an issue for HIM, not me. Funny how things work though. Now he has a new wife who is one of those pretty little dependent Betty Crocker types...

    Not so happy now are ya buddy?

    My point however, is we had NO communication. We also had "gender roles" and when things didn't go textbook, we had issues... We didn't have a solid marriage so when those issues came up we didn't address them like they should've been addressed. He's repeating the same behavior. I just am glad I learned something from it rather than do the same thing again!

    Don't wait until it's too late. The afterlife of a divorcee is not a pleasant one. I'm managing but it's a HUGE life changing event that truly takes an enormous toll on one's mental health...

    I'm glad I have my 3 babies (my children, two of which are almost adults) and my other babies (my horses). Because without them I'd go bonkers

    Good luck, God speed, and read then re-read everything in this post... Good stuff
    Last edited by kimbees; May. 2, 2013 at 01:13 AM. Reason: I referred to my "EX" Husband as my "Husband" HA!


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  19. #79
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    The men in my family must be anomalies. They actually LIKE their alone time with the kids and are very good with them. From babies on. Both military and civilians. My second daughter was premature and when we brought her home from the hospital, I was a mess and hubby sent me to bed while he sat up with the little crittur, who was totally uncooperative at eating. Whenever hubby came home from being deployed he'd actually send me out and about for "me time" and so he could spend time with the girls getting reacquainted. They thought he walked on water. Every guy in the family (well, except my niece's husband who is very selfish) enjoyed the dynamics of one on one with their children. And I know a few single fathers who got the kid(s) in the divorce because they were better parents than the mother.


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  20. #80
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    "I read this post and was instantly like "Rut-Ro, that sounds familiar"

    Me Too! My Ex hated the horses-hated the time, hated the money. Even though the time I spent was while he was at work and the money came from my paying off the board by cleaning stalls and my second job (also done while he was working). He worked second shift-wouldn't work first shift-too lazy.

    My second husband is a golfer and an Elk Lodge member. He's away from home almost more than I am!!! Also, I reserve Monday/Friday night for him exclusively unless I'm away at a horse show. He knew before we got together that I had a horse and that my time with the horse was sacred.

    I also agree with the other poster. Those who are self motivated already have a hobby. Those who don't have a hobby aren't going to get one...
    ~~~~~*~*~*~*~*~
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