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  1. #1
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    Default Drips from IM bottles

    I've been having issues with the bottles of multiple application injectibles I use leaking when I turn the bottle upside down after inserting the needle. I'm sure this is because I'm not getting the exact same hole in the rubber part every time.

    Is there anything I'm doing wrong? Right now I have a 50ml bottle and 2 1/2 inch needles.



  2. #2
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    How many times have you breached the rubber stopper?

    I would chuck it--if the drug is leaking out simply from the bottle being up-ended, the drug is almost certainly contaminated.

    Multi-dose bottles can only be breached so many times before the stopper loses its integrity.

    That is a very long needle, but the length should have little or nothing to do with how well the stopper holds up, unless you are using gigantic ones.

    A general rule of thumb is to use as small a gauge needle as possible to draw up a drug (some drugs are more viscous than others and you can't use baby-fine ones, though) for multi-dose vials, switching to a larger needle if necessary to inject.

    THROW IT AWAY. Not worth the risk.
    Click here before you buy.



  3. #3
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    Default

    It was on bottles of Acytl D from Wedgewood, it leaked after the 3rd time and was a 100ml bottle. I just got a new bottle of Pentosan from Wedgewood and want to prevent the same thing from happening. I've been using 18guage needles.



  4. #4
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    Use a 22 gauge. 18 is a freaking harpoon.
    Click here before you buy.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    Leave one capped needle in the bottle. Draw out solution then change needle for actual injection. Wash hands and wipe metal needle connector and cap thoroughly with alcohol swab before and after each use.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  6. #6
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    Default

    If you leave a needle in the bottle, capped or no, you are compromising the integrity of the rubber stopper. This is not recommended by anyone I know unless the entire apparatus is kept in a STERILE HOOD and then only for very short periods of time, like under an hour, if at all. No way would I recommend that this be done, ever, with a multi-dose bottle in any other setting. No offense. Just not worth it.
    Click here before you buy.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    Sterile integrity over time with a multi-dose vial is a fantasy under any circumstances. just sayin'

    All you can do it pick the least worse solution.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    Default

    True, but leaving a big, slippery metal object in the vial leaves plenty of room for germs to slide on through.

    I will spare everyone the ridiculous lengths I go to to maintain the "best possible" level of safety for my multi-use bottles. Let's just say it involves a lot of alcohol and about 20 minutes. (rubbing alcohol, of course)
    Click here before you buy.



  9. #9
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    Default

    I'm curious if most compounding pharmacies put any preservatives into their multi-dose products. That isn't a fail-safe solution, bit is certainly helpful. I have a feeling they don't.

    When I have multi-dose drugs, I usually pull out the doses I'll be giving in the very near future through one needle, and put a new capped needle on the syringes and store them at 4*C if congruent with the medication. The bottle is swabbed with alcohol before and after use and at least stored in a zip top bag where there isn't dust and whatever getting on the stopper.
    As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.



  10. #10
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    Default

    Okay, I WANT to hear how Delta does it!!! I have my big bottle of Pentosan, and I use a sterile needle to draw, and I keep the bottle in a ziploc bag inside my house. I am sure I am doing everything wrong already.

    Also, will rubbing alcohol erode the rubber lid on the bottle?
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    Default

    The issue of concern about preservation isn't as much of a concern as contamination, imo.


    If you are worried about this stuff, probably the best thing to do is buy single dose vials.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  12. #12
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    I'm pretty sure multi-dose vials all contain some sort of preservative. Single-dose vials generally do not. But as nhwr said, preservatives are to protect the drug from degradation, not to keep contamination from happening.

    My prep is pretty fastidious, but I realize there is always a risk of site infections. I just try to mitigate the risk as much as I can.

    Bottles are stored inside a sterile glove that is kept inside a baggie, in my house. When I pull the bottle out the first thing I do is swab generously with rubbing alcohol and LET IT SIT. Alcohol works to kill germs by DRYING them. Wet alcohol dribbled on a germ for 2 seconds isn't going to kill anything.

    While the top of the bottle is drying, I'm doing a prep on the horse--hefty alcohol wipes (the size that are like baby wipes, big tubs of them from the drug store) and I SOAK the chosen injection site after swabbing vigorously to get the major dirt off. WET the skin and let it sit and dry--at least 5 minutes x 3 separate dousings. I do other stuff while I'm prepping the skin--pull some mane, clean a bridle, whatever, but am not grooming the horse and blowing dirt all over the place at this point.

    Every time I pull a wipe out of the tub I swab the bottle first, flip it over and then go at the horse's butt. Total of four wipes, minimum.

    Finally I'm ready to get on with it--clean hands, unwrap a sterile syringe, and without touching the rubber top I draw up my drug and immediately go inject the horse into the now-dry and previously alcohol-drenched site.

    Clean up the vial with another wipe, pop open a sterile glove and slip the bottle inside, then into a baggie it goes and back to my pantry.

    Kind of makes me cringe when I see people just draw up a dose of whatever off the shelf and bang it in there. And horses do FINE with this method, but if I can reduce the risk of a site or systemic infection by even a couple of percentage points with my method it's worth it TO ME. Takes almost no effort and it fits inside my own PERSONAL risk/benefit "box".
    Click here before you buy.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nhwr View Post
    The issue of concern about preservation isn't as much of a concern as contamination, imo.


    If you are worried about this stuff, probably the best thing to do is buy single dose vials.
    Benzyl alcohol would be the preservative used for the "comparable" drug in this question (Adequan) and it is added to prevent bacterial growth.
    As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.



  14. #14
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    Delta,

    I give my IM shots (Pentosan) in the neck. Is there a reason to choose the butt over the neck?

    As far as prepping the injection site on the horse, why alcohol wipes as compared to iodine or chlorahexadine or other stuff? (I'm asking b/c I figure you have a good explanation). I haven't been taking site prep seriously, b/c I read something saying that unless I shaved it; it was futile. It said the most important thing was using a sterile needle - it gives me the willies thinking about injecting multiple animals w/ the same needle &/or syringe; but I guess that was something people did???

    I should probably just shave a magic triangle on each side of mare's neck, so that I don't spend so long mentally calculating and then double checking over the exact spot to inject. My vet emphasized not overthinking the process, but, it's what I am good at

    Now to find a source of sterile gloves...
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  15. #15
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    Default

    I use the hamstring for all injections that I do; just a personal preference. I save the neck for vets. I find horses virtually never get sore with hamstring injections, and there's a lot more real estate back there without getting into the wrong territory.

    One could also use chlorhexidine and I'd imagine the efficacy is similar but alcohol is just so easy to keep in those big pop-up tubs of big wipes. Iodine I don't care for--one of my horses is a mostly-white pinto.

    I believe there are at least a couple of studies in the veterinary literature that showed shaving was not particularly helpful in preventing infections during joint injections, but I haven't looked for anything lately in that department.
    Click here before you buy.



  16. #16
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    Default

    I could see where a close shave might potentially break/irritate the skin and maybe provide access for more germs to come in - or something - who knows?

    I will investigate the hamstring option. Thankfully, this mare is VERY patient, and she allows me to do my "pull back" and contemplate it thoroughly and completely before I push in. Thanks to this board, I am too aware that things can go awry very seriously and quickly; so I try to do my best. I also just had my own "slow healing" incision experience after a very small & simple biopsy, and it makes one think a lot more and assume a lot less

    Thanks for the info.
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  17. #17
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    Aug. 22, 2009
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    Default

    I had a new bottle from wedgewood that also leaked after only entering through the stopper twice using 16 gauge needles.

    I would call Wedgewood and let them know the problem. It may be a "bad batch" of the empty sterile vials that they use. That really does happen. They can then report that to the manufacturer. They might even honor a replacement at no charge.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    Default

    What do you all use 16 and 18 gauge needles for? I've only ever used an 18 for penicillin. Everything else is a 21/22 gauge depending on what the vet left me.



  19. #19
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    Default

    I agree--16 and 18s are huge!
    Click here before you buy.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Apr. 14, 2001
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rockfordbuckeye View Post
    I had a new bottle from wedgewood that also leaked after only entering through the stopper twice using 16 gauge needles.
    A 16 g needle is a FIREHOSE. I'm really not surprised to hear you're seeing leaking if you're using 16 g.

    Try something smaller.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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