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  1. #1
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    Mar. 1, 2013
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    141

    Default Feed for OTTB

    It was recommended I post here since it seems there are a lot of experienced OTTB people here. I own a lovely mare who scared the crap out of me this last month. She was so high it was scary this last week. Finally figured out it was the darn Farnam weight builder. Two ounces and she's nutty. I tried oats too. Two pounds a day still seemed to much. I am boarding in AZ. We don't have pastures. My barn feeds a lot of grass hay. But I don't know if hay alone is enough. I can ask to pay more for hay and free feed as much as possible. Is there any other choices for a sensitive TB for weight?



  2. #2
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    Jul. 17, 2007
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    Landrum, SC
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    I've had a lot of OTTBs and am a big fan of Triple Crown Senior, plus all the good hay they'll scarf up. I add Accel Lifetime and Omega Horseshine, and make sure they spend most of their time outside in large spaces with plenty of room to play.
    Athletic Horses. Educated Riders.
    www.Ride-With-Confidence.com


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Sep. 14, 2002
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    Azle, Teh-has
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    Not having pastures is fine. Plenty of horses get along well enough. Hopefully you can give her free choice hay. Timothys and Orchards are a better choice than Bermuda or Coastal. B and C are pretty high in sugars.

    I second Triple Crown Senior.
    It is 10% NSC and high in fat.
    Not sure there is a feed out there that is lower than that in NSC count.

    Oats are something like 30-40% NSC. The worst feed you could choose.

    My favorite feed is beet pulp if the horse will eat it. Soak it and drain it to get the sugars out if your horse is carb sensitive.
    Then just add a diet balancer. Triple Crown 30% or Progressive. There are a bunch out there to choose from.

    Purina also makes a fairly decent feed called Omelene 400. It is NOT a sweet feed. Its a beet pulp base but it's still up to about 20% NSC.

    You really can't beat Triple Crown Senior. Even though it's called "Senior", it's not only for senior horses.
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
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    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2010
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
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    107

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    I used Cool Calories on my very hot headed TB cross and I didn't notice a demeanor change. He's also a picky eater and loved the stuff. I also put corn/vegetable oil in his feed each feeding to bulk up the fat.

    *EDIT* Sorry forgot to mention that we used that with Triple Crown Senior.
    Last edited by tldickinson; Apr. 27, 2013 at 06:44 PM.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Boston Area
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    I also really like Triple Crown Senior!
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.



  6. #6
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    Jul. 25, 2012
    Posts
    238

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    I feed my mare the Purina Healthy Edge... Again not a sweet feed. It's a 12% and it's complete I find that I don't have to feed anything else with it, (except her meds).

    Have you tried adding more Magnesium to her diet? My girl was diagnosed with a deficiency in Magnesium. It may be worth it to you to have a blood test done. When my mare doesn't have her levels right she can be a handful.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 23, 2006
    Location
    New York State
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    1,466

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    I feed Nutrena Lifedesign Senior with oil, warm beet pulp mash and second cutting for my Thoroughbred. I can't find the Triple Crown Feeds around my area but my vet has stated that a senior feed is a good choice. My Thoroughbred is 12 and has been off the track for 4 years. Currently I'd say he receives about 12 pounds of feed a day and he's not in work. I have no grass but he has free-choice second cutting hay. I'd say he eats about 3/4 of a bale a day and he's just about perfect weight-wise. He always has hay to nibble on - he's just not a huge eater.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 24, 2004
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    Another vote for Triple Crown Senior! Don't let the word "senior" scare you - it's an excellent feed that is high in fat and has a low NSC number. I wouldn't recommend the Triple Crown Complete as it has a much higher NSC number (20.6 vs. 11.7).

    And good quality free choice hay like you mentioned - I'd start with those two things and see how she does.

    My OTTB mare is actually on Triple Crown Lite - she's a very easy keeper and doesn't need extra calories - this feed gets the vitamins/minerals she needs without the extra calories/fat and the NSC is only 9.3.


    http://www.triplecrownfeed.com/artic...rown-horsefood
    "When a horse greets you with a nicker & regards you with a large & liquid eye, the question of where you want to be & what you want to do has been answered." CANTER New England



  9. #9
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    Sep. 5, 2006
    Posts
    522

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    ADM Primeglo. Puts weight on super fast, and has next to no starch/sugar. Jester has been switched to it this year and looks fabulous, and there are several other OTTBs in the barn that are on it and look awesome.



    Crude Protein, Min ..........................14.0%

    Lysine, Min ....................................0.65%

    Crude Fat, Min .................................8.0%

    Crude Fiber, Max ............................22.0%

    Calcium (Ca), Min. ..........................1.25%

    Calcium (Ca), Max. .........................1.75%

    Phosphorus (P), Min ........................0.6%

    Salt (NaCl), Min .............................1.75%

    Salt (NaCl), Max ............................2.25%

    Copper (Cu),Min ...........................80 ppm

    Selenium (Se), Min ......................1.2 ppm

    Zinc (Zn), ...................................350 ppm

    Vitamin A, Min ..................15,000 IU/pound

    Vitamin D3, Min ................1,500 IU/pound

    Vitamin E, Min ....................334 IU/pound


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2008
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    Beet Pulp. It is an amazing additive, and if you look, a lot of the low starch feeds have it in them. BUT, make SURE, you don't feed the one that has molasses added, cause they don't need those calories, and make sure you DO soak it for 12 hours. People will say you don't need to soak it that long, but I have found that it gets pretty gooey as well as soft, and the horses eat it better. Another thing you can add in is Rice Bran oil. Seminole makes one that we use, it isn't super expensive, but adding in two ouces to each feeding will give you a shine. and put weight on. Of course, hay is important, and if you can feed as much as they will eat, great. Watch out though, Coastal is NOT a good hay for TB's. IT WILL cause Illium impactions, and don't let anyone fool you into thinking it doesn't. It will, it does, and it isn't worth it. Good Luck. Also, obviously, check teeth, think about ulcers, etc. There is a new product out, called T.H.E. we have found that it is working well, and we also feed succeed to our really really difficult horses to get weight on. That stuff, I don't know what is in it, but it REALLY works amazing. Even if you can only do it a month or two, the difference is ....out of the world.
    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
    www.mmceventing.com



  11. #11
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    Dec. 31, 2010
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    154

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    I'm in Az, too - it is hard to find good hay here. I feed lots of a timothy/orchard grass hay, and a mixture of beet pulp and oats - 40# of beet pulp to 50# of crimped oats, 1 gal of veg oil (soy, not corn!). I know lots of people don't like oats for TB's, but my worst, squirrly-acting TB does well with this. They also get half a cup of rice bran pellets and two tablespoons of ground flaxmeal twice a day, along with a pound of the oat/beet pulp mix twice a day.

    I had one on Quiessence for six months/year and it worked WONDERS. If something set him off, it was impossible to get his brain refocused. He'd walk his stall, too - the Quiessence dialed that down, which helped him keep weight on on much less feed. Finish Line makes a product that is similar, but it is a liquid rather than a pellet.

    Absolutely ditto what Gold 2012 said about bermuda - said squirrel colicked twice on it.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    843

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    The barn where my mare lives feeds Bermuda grass hay. I supplement with alfalfa and Timothy so that she has free choice hay. In addition she gets rice bran pellets, ATB pellets, beet pulp and a balancer/vitamin supplement. I disagree that you must soak the bp 12 hours. In the summer it will spoil, and in the winter, if you use hot water (and I'm speaking of the shreds) it only takes 10 - 15 minutes to soak. And that is according to the directions on the bag. Pellets take a little longer, but not much. I would not feed Bermuda grass alone, but as long as you also feed a rough stemmed hay like alfalfa with it, or the bp, it's fine.



  13. #13
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    Oct. 4, 2008
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    Yes, in the summer we do tend to not have to soak as long, but personally, I wouldn't feed it if it hadnt soaked considerably longer then 15 minutes. But each has thier own way of doing it. As for pellets, I REALLY wouldn't. But I do tend to be a bit OCD.

    Also, FYI, Bermuda is a type of coastal, just more of a hybrid. I won't feed any type, as every time I have been at a vets, and someone has brought in a colic, first question out of the doc, do you feed any kind of coastal, bermuda, etc....

    I do know a lot of people cut with alfalfa...and that seems to work for them.
    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
    www.mmceventing.com



  14. #14
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    Jul. 25, 2003
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    Boston Area
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    Quote Originally Posted by gold2012 View Post
    Beet Pulp. It is an amazing additive, and if you look, a lot of the low starch feeds have it in them. BUT, make SURE, you don't feed the one that has molasses added, cause they don't need those calories, and make sure you DO soak it for 12 hours. People will say you don't need to soak it that long, but I have found that it gets pretty gooey as well as soft, and the horses eat it better.
    Absolutely NOT necessary to soak BP for 12 hours. In fact, if the weather is warm, you would run the risk of the BP going rancid.

    The reason you soak BP is that some horses choke on it (not all and there are people who feed BP dry). Having seen a horse choke, I always soak it because it's not worth the risk to me. However, the point is to make it damp/soft. Shredded beet pulp is fine to feed after 5-10 minutes; pelleted beet pulp takes longer because those pellets can be large and hard. Adding warm water speed up the process.

    I've written quite a bit about feeding beet pulp in my blog:

    http://equineink.com/2008/08/07/beet...t-and-fiction/
    http://equineink.com/2009/12/13/more...-on-beet-pulp/

    As for molasses? I worked with a nutritionist when I first set up my horse's feeding regime. He said the amount of molasses added to BP is negligible. I prefer to feed it without molasses, but the few times I have fed it with, it didn't make a difference. Of course, your mileage may vary but I'd look at the whole diet rather than the tablespoon full of molasses. BTW, my horse is very hot and does best on a very low NSC diet. Right now I do not feed BP separately because I am feeding Triple Crown Senior but he thrived for years on BP, a ration balancer, free choice grass hay and a bit of alfalfa. I used oil to add weight as it gives you the biggest bang for your buck in terms of calories. I've fed rice bran in the past and many horses really like it. The RB oil is quite $$ for the amount of calories it provides so I've always used regular oil.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.



  15. #15
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    Apr. 2, 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
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    5,410

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    I feed Triple Crown to mine as well (so glad you decided to post over here!) but I feed Complete b/c he has an insane metabolism and needs it plus lots of extra fat.

    Both rice bran and Cool Calories offer fat without making a horse hot, I use both of them. For vitamin/mineral balancer if you are not feeding very much grain, I really like SmartVite line from SmartPak, very nicely formulated.



  16. #16
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    Oct. 4, 2008
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    To each thier own on beet pulp. I worked for an equine practioneer, who had clients who felt that you could soak beet pulp for a short time as well. Beet pulp can cause choke, but it also gets into the intestine, and continues to absorb water while in the gut.. If you have a horse that is adequately hydrated, that you KNOW to be adequately hydrated, and it is a small amount, you may be fine, the problem occurs in a horse that may bre partially dehydrated, a horse who has ate a lot of BP, and the mobility of the BP once it gets in there. IE, are they standing around not eating after the beet pulp, so it less likely to get pushed along.

    I won't go into details on some of what saw, regards to ruptures and the like. But I will not feed pelleted beet pulp that has NOT had at the minimum 8 hours to soak, during the warmer months, and 12 during the winter. Perhaps this is overkill, but I have done this for 35 plus years, and haven't had a problem. I know others who won't feed it, cause they have had nothing but problems, or can't trust people to follow directions.

    OP, beet pulp is a wonderful additive, and yes, it takes a bit of attention to detail, but it is a valuable way to get weight on a horse. Talk to your equine practioneer, and ask them how long they suggest soaking the pulp for. Then, at least, if something happens, you have a resource to go to.

    Here is a really fun way to truly get the idea of how much beet pulp changes. Start with a cup of dried, add water, and over the course of a day, measure the difference in how many cups you have 15 minutes later, to 12 hours. Then decide for yourself, what the chances of impaction is fed 15 minutes after rehydration. On pellets, if you can still fill anything hard, you are REALLY running a risk.

    As for Molasses and beet pulp, there is enough in it to make it the water turn brown, and gummy. TO me, it isn't worth adding it. I try to manage everything that goes in, and it is empty calories, much like sugar to a child. There is no point to it, and most horses eat the beet pulp fine if you start with small quantities and add over the space of a few weeks. Rice bran helps make it a bit tastier, and has the added benefit of adding fat.
    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
    www.mmceventing.com



  17. #17
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    Jul. 25, 2003
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    Boston Area
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    Quote Originally Posted by gold2012 View Post
    To each thier own on beet pulp. I worked for an equine practioneer, who had clients who felt that you could soak beet pulp for a short time as well. Beet pulp can cause choke, but it also gets into the intestine, and continues to absorb water while in the gut.. If you have a horse that is adequately hydrated, that you KNOW to be adequately hydrated, and it is a small amount, you may be fine, the problem occurs in a horse that may bre partially dehydrated, a horse who has ate a lot of BP, and the mobility of the BP once it gets in there. IE, are they standing around not eating after the beet pulp, so it less likely to get pushed along.

    I won't go into details on some of what saw, regards to ruptures and the like. But I will not feed pelleted beet pulp that has NOT had at the minimum 8 hours to soak, during the warmer months, and 12 during the winter. Perhaps this is overkill, but I have done this for 35 plus years, and haven't had a problem. I know others who won't feed it, cause they have had nothing but problems, or can't trust people to follow directions.
    I don't know if the equine practitioner you mention is a vet, but I've researched beet pulp extensively and there are studies conducted by vets and research institutions that refute the myths concerning ruptures, drawing water from the intestines, etc. Certainly if you want to soak beet pulp for that long and you are not worried about the beet pulp going rancid, it's not a problem but neither is feeding it when it's been soaked for 10 minutes.

    Dr. Susan E. Garlinghouse's article, The Myths and Realities of Beet Pulp by is a good place to start. Here is an excerpt that addresses the question of ruptures.

    Many horse owners are also concerned that, due to the amount of water that beet pulp soaks up, and the volume that it expands to, a large meal of dry beet pulp will somehow cause the stomach to swell up and rupture. A simple explanation of the equine stomach will allay this particular concern. The capacity of the equine stomach is 2-4 gallons, equivalent to approximately 4 1⁄2 to 9 1⁄2 pounds of dry beet pulp. Movement of food from the stomach to the small intestine can vary depending on a number of factors, but as the stomach begins to reach maximum capacity, stretch receptors in the walls of the stomach will trigger the release of motilin, a hormone which in turn stimulates the emptying of the stomach and passage of food into the small intestine, cecum and colon. As the capacity of the gastrointestinal system-approximately 38 to 48 gallons-is more than sufficient to adequately contain even a very large meal of beet pulp (or any other feed), the only horse in danger of a gastric rupture is one suffering from impaction or other severe lack of normal peristaltic movement.

    Concerns about beet pulp "pulling water from the blood and into the stomach and causing dehydration" are also unfounded. Regardless of the type of feed, horses will generally drink approximately 3 to 4 liters of water for every kilogram of dry matter consumed (dry matter is what's left over in a feed after its own moisture content is disallowed). Assuming free access to clean, fresh water, horses will voluntarily consume enough water to adequately process any amount of beet pulp consumed. If soaked beet pulp is provided, drinking will be proportionately less as the moisture content of the soaked pulp supplies considerable water. In either case, it is unlikely that fluid shifts from blood plasma to the interior of the gastrointestinal tract will be significantly different from those occurring with any other type of feed with similar moisture content.


    In the end, what you feed your own horse needs to work for you. It seems, though, that beet pulp is one of those feeds that many people still don't understand.

    Keep in mind that beet pulp is the primary ingredient of many popular complete feeds such as Triple Crown Senior, Purina Ultium, etc. and yet most people do not soak those feed before giving them to their horses.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    Oct. 4, 2008
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    Bogie, Kudos for finding the article. AND In a perfect world, a horse who has lots of fresh water, etc, go for it. I feed mine well soaked, it has worked for me for years. I have seen/done surgeries where the intestine was jamed with dry beet pulp. And it was a major blockage. Perhaps the beet pulp didn't cause it, perhaps it combined with coastal caused it, regardless, it hasn't been a single case. I saw a horse, in an autopsy, that did have a rupture, and there, inside, was pellets, partially expanded, was it the "SOLE" thing, no, but it isn't worth it to me to take a chance. I have found the best defense against colic is a good Offense.

    As I suggested to the OP, talk to her vet, and see what they recommend for that particular horse.

    I don't pretend to understand everything there is about the dynamics of how the horses gastrointenstinal system works. I just go by things I have expieranced. One article isn't going to convince me, and particularily when it is just as easy to soak it, and know my horses are getting fluid in them.

    I obviously don't feed rancid beet pulp, and actually, my entire feed room is climate controlled. SO....I might be a bit better equipped them some to feed it after a long soak. I just know my horses, my routine, and my success. And have seen others with not quiet as succesful outcomes.

    OP, Beet pulp is a wonderful feed, research what you feel comfortable doing, and good luck, let us know how the guy is doing!
    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
    www.mmceventing.com



  19. #19
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    Jul. 25, 2003
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    I agree with you on many fronts -- a well hydrated horse is essential and keeping your horse hydrated is a good strategy for avoiding colic. I have fed beet pulp for many years and have have (knock on wood) never had a horse colic, or for that matter, choke. I choose to soak both my horses' grain (Triple Crown Senior and alfalfa pellets) because there's no harm to it, it helps to prevent choke and the extra hydration is beneficial.

    The only thing I disagree with you on is that beet pulp can expand in the stomach and cause ruptures if it is not soaked for 8-12 hours. I agree that pelleted beet pulp takes more time to absorb water than shreds (which is why I never fed pellets) but I think it's alarmist to attribute the problems you saw to inadequately soaked beet pulp.

    Here are a few more articles. The only thing I haven't been able to find is which universities have done the research but if I can uncover that I'll add the links:

    Beet Pulp Myths by Lori K. Warren, Ph.D., P.A.S., joined Alberta Agriculture, Food & Rural Development as Provincial Horse Specialist in May 2000. She received her M.S. and Ph.D. in Equine Nutrition and Exercise Physiology from the University of Kentucky. Her research focuses on the nutrition of performance horses and forage utilization by young growing horses.

    Can beet pulp cause colic? Rutgers Equine Science Center

    Myths and Wives' tales of feeding horses "some truth some fiction" by Stephen G. Jackson, Kentucky Equine Research.

    Horse feeding myths and misconceptions by Dr. Martin Adams, PAS, Equine Nutritionist for Southern States.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.



  20. #20
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    I just researched as well, and it would appear that it can't cause a rupture, on it's own, but combined with a horse that may be impacting, can cause issues. It can also, not on it's own right, cause impaction anymore then a regular grain can, unless one is already starting and then can make one worse. IN a well hydrated horse.

    I will stick to soaking. I don't have any reason to not do so, and I like that it does get extra water in. We feed cavalor, which I love, don't think it has beet pulp in it, but considering how wet and mushy the beet pulp is...

    I still don't trust it won't alone, cause colic....sometimes science just doesn't always take into account variables. One being what hay is being fed....but I admit when I am wrong...though, by golly, I almost died reading most of it. But I have seen surgeries, opened up, that the beet pulp was a large culprit...and I don't understand if hay, grain can cause impaction of thier own, why beet pulp wouldn't have the same ability. Also, I find a lot of people who feed it, live in sandy areas, and I believe wet beet pulp can help with that, but haven't really researched it.
    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
    www.mmceventing.com



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