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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2011
    Posts
    535

    Default WWYD, if sold a horse with undisclosed dangerous behavior?

    Purchased a horse advertised as super laid back, very easy, kid friendly, basically wonderful in every way. Within 2 weeks she's rearing. Call seller, response was: wow, she has never done that! This is sooooo unlike her!!! I ruled out all other issues (dental, lame, sore, tack) and am at a loss. Find an interesting blog on the internet on a trainer's website about this horse. She was sent there as a last resort after several other trainers had given up on her for REARING, and just nastiness in general, and owner clearly could not handle her. Hmm, funny seller told me this was so unlike her. Apparently she is much improved, so she didn't think it mattered?!?! It has only been 3 weeks so I plan to run a drug screen on the blood pulled from prepurchase. Seller is also the breeder. Advice welcome.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 26, 2008
    Posts
    1,303

    Default

    print the blog and send it to the seller letting them know you want your money back and take the mare back

    its one thing to buy a "project" with full disclosure, another to hide such a dangerous behavior

    yes all horses can buck or rear, however obviously this behavior is NOT new


    15 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2011
    Posts
    535

    Default

    Sent it to her in an email amd also to the professional who assisted with the sale (she was also unaware of any issues). Thanks


    6 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2012
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Take screenshots before it disappears...


    8 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 2001
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    6,995

    Default

    Does your sales contract explicitly state that it can be nullified if bloodwork shows masking agent? If not, most sales contracts are as is and include no implied warranty language. You may be able to work this out but whether you have a legal leg to stand on depends on the contract...
    The big man -- no longer an only child

    His new little brother


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2000
    Location
    Somewhere in the Midwest
    Posts
    2,210

    Default

    deleted post
    Last edited by NJRider; Feb. 26, 2014 at 05:40 PM.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2011
    Posts
    535

    Default

    The statements made regarding the animal's suitability and safety were made verbally to myself and the other trainer involved who found the horse. There is also an ad with similar language about her being safe for anyone including children and lesson programs. I will print this as well. I also have a written conversation where owner states in writing she has never had any behavior or training issues with her. This was in response to my concerns once red flags started popping up. The contract says as is but I have more than enough in writing where she is blatantly lying about a behavior that is dangerous no matter who you ask.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2000
    Location
    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
    Posts
    20,376

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Win1 View Post
    The statements made regarding the animal's suitability and safety were made verbally to myself and the other trainer involved who found the horse. There is also an ad with similar language about her being safe for anyone including children and lesson programs. I will print this as well. I also have a written conversation where owner states in writing she has never had any behavior or training issues with her. This was in response to my concerns once red flags started popping up. The contract says as is but I have more than enough in writing where she is blatantly lying about a behavior that is dangerous no matter who you ask.

    Even though you may have an "as is" contract, there is such a thing as fraud in the inducement. If that can be proved, then any contract is either void or voidable, I forget which. You really need to talk to a lawyer about this before you get killed.

    If you are in certain states, the protection for buyers is greater than in other states. That's another reason you need to get a lawyer involved, especially if the transaction was interstate in nature. Your rights will depend to large extent on which state's law is deemed to apply. If you have a void contract, your options are much greater than if you live in a state other than the one whose law is 'chosen" in the contract.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2012
    Posts
    519

    Default

    Take screen shots and print out duplicate copies of everything! Keep us in the loop with how it turns out...


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 27, 2013
    Posts
    48

    Default Horse with bad behavior

    Unfortunately this is why they use the term 'horse trader' in a derogatory way.....
    If the horse was tranquilized or aced before you viewed then you would have a very good case for misrepresentation. It's always best to trial a horse for a week for this reason - usually if sellers don't want you to do this it can be a red flag.
    I would definitely do the blood work and see if you can research the complete history - I managed to get my horse's breeder, first owner and second owner through internet searches so you might be able to find some more info to help your case.

    Good luck!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2006
    Posts
    1,922

    Default

    You're doing great so far with your paper trail, etc. I would never be in the sellers shoes (I am more into over disclosure, I tell everything and am always worried I forgot something!) But if I was, you can bet I would be on my way with your money and my trailer after getting handed that blog entry. Like others said consult with an attorney but most importantly...

    Do not get on that horse anymore. Not worth it.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2009
    Posts
    372

    Default

    Did anyone else automatically wonder if the seller had a big cast on her leg... ?

    Maybe I spend too much time on here!


    5 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    12,071

    Default

    I don't know if you plan on keeping her, or what you are going to do if the seller will not take the horse back.

    Have you gotten in touch with the trainer the horse was at? I would be interested in finding out how or if they solved the rearing issue. Then you could replicate their program and maybe get something out of the horse. If you tried the horse and nobody tried to put the horse on the bit and the solution was to not put the horse on the bit then that could be why it didn't come up when you tried the horse but comes up now. You could either sell the horse to someone who isn't interested in it going on the bit if it does its job otherwise or work on retraining it to accept contact.

    How old is the horse? Personality? If you are dealing with a young horse that rears when you try to take up contact it might be fixeable to a certain extent. I restarted a horse that reared over backwards several times with a trainer. The issue ended up being a hard handed trainer who overwhelmed a confused and sensitive baby horse who chose to rear instead of buck and I never had the issue crop up with my training style. An older horse with a solid habit might not be as easy.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2011
    Posts
    535

    Default

    The horse has been nasty on the ground and reared when asked to do any work from the very beginning. It's a well ingrained and learned evasion, not just here and there like a normal baby might and this is what she reverts back to with very little provocation. I'm not looking to reform a horse with this history who I've owned for 3 weeks. I purchaed her as an easy ammy ride, family and kid horse. Several trainers were unsuccessful, doubt I'm the one to take it on even if I wanted to.

    I've contacted the seller via FB, email, text and phone several times. She is not responding. All the more proof for my case in court as I see it.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 8, 2008
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    My own little utopia!
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    888

    Default

    Sounds like you have good evidence. Good luck with the lawyer. I hope you get your money back because I am sick and tired of sellers pulling this crap. Unfortunately it's rampant in the horse industry. It's happened to me and other people I know.

    I have a $$$ horse that was retired at age 8 within 6 months of my buying him due to an undisclosed prior condition that rendered him dangerous and unrideable. Could not get any money back or even give the horse away in good conscience. Seller would not respond to me after I contacted her about it despite the spiel about how she'd take him back at any point in the future, blah, blah. This person is trying to make it a pro and continues to sell horses. Ugh

    And despite having good evidence that a horse was given to a BNT as a last resort because of its bucking problem a friend was unable to get her money back. When the friend no longer felt safe riding the horse she disclosed all prior history to a third person and gave the horse away. A few months later that person sold the horse on!!!! I wonder how many years this will go on with this particular horse...

    Sadly, many duped buyers can only hope for karma to come back to sellers who have lied about sales horses.
    Last edited by BestHorses; Apr. 27, 2013 at 10:05 AM.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 1999
    Location
    Someplace Wet
    Posts
    9,015

    Default

    I've contacted the seller via FB, email, text and phone several times. She is not responding. All the more proof for my case in court as I see it.


    this is no longer the proper way to try to contact her

    certified letters and a lawyer, that is your method from this time forward


    10 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
    Posts
    10,432

    Default

    There was one like that the barn a while back. She belonged to the working student - was constantly balking and rearing, even on the lunge line. She was also very nasty to handle - bullish, hostile, and aggressive. Found out she had been given to someone else at one point, and had broken that lady's pelvis while flipping over. So she went back to the working student. The BO/trainer is really, really good with "difficult" horses, and they were making some progress, but the mare was not trustworthy at all. The day she reared up and struck at the BO when she went to get her in the pasture was the day the BO laid down the law to the WS - told her she wanted the horse off the property before she hurt someone. Mare was gone within a few days - apparently the WS gave her to a local breeder. I shudder to think of what kind of babies that mare will have. She struck me as a classic case of a horse needing the needle.

    OP, I agree with above posters that you should contact an attorney.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    12,071

    Default

    Bummer, I understand your feelings on the issue. So sorry your purchase turned out this way.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2000
    Location
    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
    Posts
    20,376

    Default

    I had a mare who would rear. Trainer thought that she had been in loco weed because she was so great on the ground and only sporadically "crazy." We found out after her death that there was a physical reason.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2011
    Posts
    535

    Default

    Thanks everyone, I appreciate the input.

    I contacted an equine law specialist in KY, where the sale took place and they will be contacting her with a certified demand letter. I REALLY didn't want to have to do this, but my choices are limited and she said this sale was 'as-is'. I sent pages of communication and the detailed story from the trainer's website to the attorney today and he said it's worth going after given all of the things in writing I have. I'm just hoping she steps up and tries to work this out with me the right way. I even offered to pay a month of board-training, vaccines, dental, in exchange for a quick return. She refused.

    This industry is truly sickening. I hear all too often horses are resold with issues and I refuse to let it happen to this one. If we can't find a solution and I end up stuck with her I feel better about euthanasia or donation to a vet school than I do about resale. It will make me feel like the biggest jerk and most evil person ever, but if it potentially impacts someone's life who may have ended up hurt I suppose I'll get over it.


    16 members found this post helpful.

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