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  1. #21
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    OP, do you really really want a smaller dog? Because if not, a retired greyhound might be up your alley if you like the Italians but don't like the "fragile" piece.

    I've known many and helped with some rescues and man, most of them are just wonderful. Quiet, great house dogs that (surprisingly) don't seem to need as much vigorous exercise or mind work as some other breeds. Just a thought.

    I am not very familiar with the Scottish Terrier to be honest. But I would steer clear of the Frenchies as you've already decided. I see several at my office and I've only worked at this place for about 2 mos!!! Lots of issues!!!!
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


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  2. #22
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    The current issue of Sighthound Review has an article about the "controversial" Silken Windhound and so-called Long-Haired Whippet (which whippet people say is not really a whippet). They are not very big, starting at 18" at the shoulder and 35 pounds, and sound less active and more "biddable" than whippets. They do have Sheltie in their development.

    How high are your fences?

    Here is a website:

    http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/silkenwindhound.htm

    I have known a couple and they were delightful little dogs. Anyone have one?



  3. #23
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    Oh, sorry, OP, just saw you have four foot fencing. I imagine that would work if you got the dog as a puppy, but best to talk with Silken breeders to be sure, if that is something that interests you. They are not AKC recognized, and seem to have few health issues and a long lifespan.

    18" seems little to me, especially if it only weighs 35 pounds, small enough that you could pick it up if you had to, but then I have IWs where that is never an option except with young puppies. I know as we get older it is a concern not to be able to physically manuever a sick or injured big dog, and sometimes I think it would be so much easier to have a more portable dog!

    I have always liked lurchers, some of them are pretty small, especially if you like sighthounds but the IG is too tiny and the whippet a bit too active (although I know some adult whippets that are total couch potatoes!).

    I agree PVBGs are adorable, but they can be very very vocal, and can be a bit messy for some sighthound people. Scenthounds, you know.



  4. #24
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    Another breed I've been admiring for the past couple of years when I've seen them at shows, and have been tempted by to the extent of talking to breeders, is the Portugese Podengo Pequeno:

    http://www.podengos.com/

    They are classified as a sighthound, and the Pequenos look sort of like a cross between a Norwich Terrier and a PVGB. (They also come in medio and grande size.). The Pequenos are 8-12 " tall and 9-13 pounds. They are irresistible, and seem calm and sweet. They are newly AKC recognized although it is a very old breed in Portugal.



  5. #25
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    I love PBGVs. But definitely hounds. They seem to have great personalities and make me smile. I love my terriers and have friends with Scottie's. they are a bit reserved for me.


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  6. #26
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    Not a breed you mentioned, but I bought a King Charles Cavalier last year and I absolutely adore her!

    She is by far the smartest dog I've ever owned - in a matter of weeks she knew her name, and the basic commands (sit, down, come). She's not a year old yet but she already knows over 50 commands - among them grabbing and bringing stuff I point at, going left, right or back, crawl, beg, jump, stop, speak,... And the funniest thing is she picked most of them out without me actually taking the effort to train her (she just associated a certain word with a certain behavior and started doing stuff by herself to please me).

    I am yet to know someone who doesn't instantly fall in love with her. My grandmother is actually not a dog person at all (shoos our other dog as soon as he approaches her) but loves Summer and will cuddle her for hours!

    She is also very good with other animals. My other dog is very dog aggressive (has killed) and I was obviously very concerned about the two of them living together but he promptly accepted her (she is very submissive). I've also had bunnies leaping around in the garden and she would play with them and never did them any harm. Also great with horses and animals in general.

    Summer also loves kids, which is stunning.

    She is a very active dog who definitely needs a job, but won't destroy anything if left alone. She is the cutest dog with those big expressive eyes.

    I also know other dogs of the same breed and they are just like her - smart, expressive, lovable dogs who would do anything to please their owner.

    Definitely a breed I would recommend. Just be sure you find a reputable breeder who health tests his/her dogs and has the puppies best interest in mind.


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  7. #27
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    We have a Papillon mix and and she is the BEST little farm dog in the world!! No muss or fuss...lots of guts and smarts, but no attitude! She gets along with all the other animals. Stays out of the way, but is all heart when it comes to possums or other critters that don't belong on "her" farm. And the silky hair...is not a problem. Everything...sticks, burrs, dirt, mud and water just slips right off!! She has NEVER had a single health issue, either. We have three VERY big dogs and just one small one, but she fits right in...defends her space, but is not yappy or snappy. Love her to death!!
    www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
    Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma



  8. #28
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    Since you love the sighthound temperament, let me again recommend a Basenji.
    The ones I've known are very personable and easier to train then most other sighthounds, but still give off that dignified sighthound vibe - except when they are being total clowns

    Ignore the breed club page. Really, ignore it.
    They take the whole "making sure someone is ready for our breed" thing and turn it into "scare the crap out of anyone who even thinks about it and send them screaming to another breed."
    Sigh - I hate when breed clubs do that - or when they do the opposite (our breed is so wonderful and perfect for every one and adores children and are born with an obedience degree...)

    Go meet a few (I've had the pleasure and never known one who came anywhere near the puppy antics of your average terrier, much less a lab or herding breed) and see what you think.
    Online info is all well and good - but nothing beats meeting dogs in person.



  9. #29
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    I was just going to recommend a Basenji! I had two and they were wonderful dogs. Kahu was a joyful dog and "sang" when he was happy. I damn near drove off the highway the first time he broke into song in the car! Pharaoh was the opposite; he only "scolded". Come home later than usual and I was in for 10 minutes of chatter.

    They sort of combine 3 of your original breed choices. Colored like a corgi, but not big shedders. Aloof like a scottie but also total happy idiots when the mood strikes them. Smart, smart, smart like a papillion. Added benefit, they are exceptionally clean. Only about 16" and under 30 lbs (IIRC). They'll be happy in a yard and on your couch. Both of mine were big snugglers.
    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
    Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"



  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryswyn View Post
    I was just going to recommend a Basenji! I had two and they were wonderful dogs. Kahu was a joyful dog and "sang" when he was happy. I damn near drove off the highway the first time he broke into song in the car! Pharaoh was the opposite; he only "scolded". Come home later than usual and I was in for 10 minutes of chatter.

    They sort of combine 3 of your original breed choices. Colored like a corgi, but not big shedders. Aloof like a scottie but also total happy idiots when the mood strikes them. Smart, smart, smart like a papillion. Added benefit, they are exceptionally clean. Only about 16" and under 30 lbs (IIRC). They'll be happy in a yard and on your couch. Both of mine were big snugglers.
    You forgot one real warning about Basenjis, they will never stay in the OP's 4' fence yard.

    The stories of Basenjis eating thru garage walls to get out, or climbing 7' wood fences are not fables, but very real.
    I returned one such, that I found wandering down the expressway, on his way West, carrying his bag all packed tight and running from home to new adventures.

    That was a wonderful dog, sad it did have an owner already, I would have loved to have kept him and he seemed right at home here.

    I am not sure, having known plenty of Basenji houdinis, that I would recommend them for someone that wants an uncomplicated couch potato type pet.


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  11. #31
    DownYonder is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Thanks again!

    When I was showing dogs, I was never particularly fond of Basenji's. Not sure why, but they just didn't "float my boat". And I agree with Bluey, it seems most of the ones I knew were escape artists.

    As for Cavalier's, I think they are darling, and I did forget to put them on my initial list. But after another conversation with Mr DY, I don't think a Cavi will work. His comment about Papillons was "After all, I will have to walk it, too", and a Cavi falls into that same "froo-froo" category.

    Re PBVG - I don't mind the hound temperament. But then, I had sighthounds - a bit different from scenthounds. I didn't know the PBVG's were very vocal, though. We don't want something that tunes up every time a leaf blows (our neighbor's Australian Shepherd does that - drives us crazy!).

    So far, we are leaning toward a Scottish Terrier. Our main concern is if they can handle brisk 2 mile walks through our neighborhood (with some hills). We also hit some hiking trails when we can - we don't want to end up carrying a popped Scottie around!

    A friend mentioned "miniature Borzoi". Does anyone know anything about them? They are the same thing as a Silken Windhound", right?



  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    So far, we are leaning toward a Scottish Terrier. Our main concern is if they can handle brisk 2 mile walks through our neighborhood (with some hills). We also hit some hiking trails when we can - we don't want to end up carrying a popped Scottie around!

    A friend mentioned "miniature Borzoi". Does anyone know anything about them? They are the same thing as a Silken Windhound", right?
    Scotties also have a tendency to bark, and can have issues with dog aggression, if you are walking in an area where other people walk dogs this might be an issue. I too love the look, but they are Terriers with a capital T! I know this is a broad generalization and these tendencies can often be modified, but Scotties are not the easiest of the terriers.

    The Silkens and Podengos would tend to be much more mild mannered and manageable.

    Silkens are not miniature borzoi, but the borzoi was used early on in the creation of the breed , and they do resemble a downsized borzoi:

    "The intention of the creation of the Silken Windhound breed is not, contrary to some beliefs, to produce a mini-Borzoi or some kind of longhaired version of a Whippet.*It is to fill a niche that for so long has been empty—the niche of a small longhaired sighthound.

    The Silken Windhound is an established breed that is bred according to the standard*accepted by the International Silken Windhound Society.

    The studbook of the Silken Windhound breed was officially closed in December 2000."

    The Silkens and Podengos would have no trouble with the level of excercise you propose.



  13. #33
    DownYonder is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    I'm liking the sound of the Silken Windhounds! I will have to check into them some more.

    I'm not sure I understand this part - "the studbook of the Silken Windhound breed was officially closed in December 2000." So who now maintains the studbook?



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    I'm liking the sound of the Silken Windhounds! I will have to check into them some more.

    I'm not sure I understand this part - "the studbook of the Silken Windhound breed was officially closed in December 2000." So who now maintains the studbook?
    That means that the registry no longer accepts anything other than registered Silken Windhounds, in other words, no more Shelties, Whippet, Borzoi, or crosses thereof etc. can be registered as Silken Windhounds, both parents have to be registered Silken Windhounds in order for the puppies to be registered as Silken Windhounds.

    Purebred breeds in general have closed stud books, except in particular circumstances such as the native Basenjis brought over from Africa.

    This means you have a closed genetic population, which can be problematic in terms of some health issues, but can also have benefits in terms of behavioral and phenotypic consistency.



  15. #35
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    As a Basenji enthusiast/former owner (my Cleo has since passed) and current IG owner, I don't think a Basenji is right for OP given what she said. Being a sighthound enthusiast is a plus, but I think Basenjis are sighthounds + their own extra flair.
    That said, I have an Italian greyhound currently, and I love him to death, but he is NOT a typical sighthound. The description read at Westminster describes them as "affectionate almost to the point of neediness," but I have to disagree--my dog crossed way over the neediness line a long time ago. That and he is adorably, painfully dumb. I swear my Basenji could have done my taxes, and my Iggie MAY have two functioning neurons in his head.
    That said, he has no broken legs at 3 1/2 years, and is a really fun dog. He will even go on short jogs with me. From my understanding the breed is trying to improve from a time the dogs' proportions were so extreme that broken legs were unacceptably common.
    YMMV on the IGs, though, since mine is from a puppy mill bust and therefore has dubious parentage.
    Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique

    Former owner of the best Amish-carthorse-turned-eventer ever



  16. #36
    DownYonder is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Houndhill - LOL, I interpreted "the studbook was closed" to mean "the studbook was closed down". Hence my question of who was maintaining it.



  17. #37
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    I wondered, if you like scotties, how about small schnauzers?
    The are less intense and independent and nothing fru-fru about them, even the smallest of them makes anyone take notice it is a D-O-G.

    They will go on walks with you, those in our dog club are excellent obedience and agility dogs and they make good couch potatoes if that is what you want of them.
    Plus, there are more of them out there than more rare breeds.



  18. #38
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    ....or, if you like terriers, how about a Border Terrier? Less barky and less dog aggressive than most other terriers. Lots of IW people have them as a second breed because they are easy in comparison with many other terrier breeds, tend to get along well in groups, and also very good at obedience/agility.

    Do look at the Podengos, they have the terrier look but more the sighthound temperament.



  19. #39
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    I like Scotties. I personally have met over 50 that have been in and out of the vet hospital. All have been reasonable to handle, not aggressive etc. They are terriers, so need training but I stick my my initial statement that they are the quieter of the terriers



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquishTheBunny View Post
    I like Scotties. I personally have met over 50 that have been in and out of the vet hospital. All have been reasonable to handle, not aggressive etc. They are terriers, so need training but I stick my my initial statement that they are the quieter of the terriers
    Yes, they are not hyper or over the top busy dogs, that is right.

    Then, practically every scottie we had in dog classes had to be kept isolated from the others and others warned away from it, they were very over the top dog aggressive, even as puppies.
    Not in an "I will kill you!" way, just in a "get out of my way!" type confrontation, wanting much personal space.

    Eventually, with plenty of training, they were manageable, but still touchy about their space around other dogs, their owners had to work on that big time.

    Now, for an alone dog in a household, they may work fine.



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