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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2006
    Posts
    465

    Default Flying changes question

    I recently started my horse on flying changes.

    I ride in a countercanter on the rail, then ask for a little renvers, then straighten and change over to a slight shoulder-in. Then I give the new canter aid.

    The horse reacts immediately when I ask for the new lead, by giving a buck and changing leads.

    Here's my question, what would you do? Ignore the buck for now and praise for te effort/change? Or go back and redo the whole thing? Punish the buck?

    My friend and I were having this discussion and disagreed on what the right course of action is. Curious to see what COTH has to say



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2001
    Posts
    9,062

    Default

    IMO, don't ever punish a change. If you get one where you don't want one, make a calm correction but no punishment.

    For the bucking, try to emphasize straightness and collection. When asking for the change, give a micro release but maintain the poll position, that should inhibit the buck.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2004
    Posts
    7,538

    Default

    i would not punish because how is horsey supposed to know what he is being punished for? the buck or the change?

    so instead i would continue with the work and make sure you are riding forward enough and praise him when he changes as asked. The exuberance can be part of the learning process.

    also, how is the timing of your aids? is he possibly bucking due to a timing issue?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2006
    Posts
    8,592

    Default

    Never punish a buck during a change. Ignore and carry on.

    In fact most of the time, I don't punish misbehaviors. I just ignore and carry on with my original plan.

    Ignore and ask again. Ignore and ask again. Horse learns, without violence or negative emotion, that playing along is easier for all involved. He comes to this conclusion on his own, and thus proactively decides to ride WITH you, the easier way. As opposed to resenting being made to do something.

    Especially with the lead change, he doesn't even understand. There he is cantering along in counter canter like you asked and now your aids are all over him. So just ignore and carry on and look for places you can tell him, "Yes!! That's it!!"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2001
    Location
    Purcellville, VA
    Posts
    5,927

    Default

    My horse would buck when I did not have her straight enough. Essentially I was asking for the change when she was positioned in her own way and bucking was her way of getting enough airtime to get out of her way and do the change.

    i do not punish for the bucking change...I just try it again to see if I can get her set up better.


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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2000
    Location
    Proud owner of one Lunar acre! (Campanus Crater, The Moon)
    Posts
    14,018

    Default

    My thought is that you are asking too strongly with your aids. That the horse should be super light off the aids and listening and the rider needs to trust in doing less when asking and if not getting the change they go back to clarifying the lead aids through walk canter transitions on the long side asking for alternating leads.
    "Relinquish your whip!!"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 24, 2013
    Posts
    6

    Default

    I wouldn't punish, just stay calm and repeat the process until he gets it.
    I'd also say look at the timing of your aids. Give the aids as the leading leg is coming forward, before suspension, it takes a while for him to register your request.
    But never punish, how will he know exactly what he's being punished for.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr. 1, 2003
    Location
    Cocoa, Fla
    Posts
    4,101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SaddleFitterVA View Post
    My horse would buck when I did not have her straight enough. Essentially I was asking for the change when she was positioned in her own way and bucking was her way of getting enough airtime to get out of her way and do the change.

    i do not punish for the bucking change...I just try it again to see if I can get her set up better.

    When my mare was learning the changes she would leap up (about 4 ft off the groud) to get the proper clearance for a change. Easy to sit since she wasn't trying to unseat the rider - so I ignored it. Changes are now (when I set her up correctly) clean - without leaping - I just have to ensure she is VERY active with her hind legs prior to asking for the change.
    Sandy in Fla.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2006
    Posts
    1,073

    Default

    If you have the horse too restricted (too tight, too 'slow', etc) they might HAVE to 'buck' to accomplish the change.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
    Location
    Northeast
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    10,327

    Default

    I'm not a fan of moving the hind quarters around to set up for a change. On some horses keeping them straight during multiple changes is hard enough. Think now of where you want to be next in your training .

    So if a buck happens, I wouldn't punish. I would rethink my "set-up" for the change.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2007
    Location
    Triangle Area, NC
    Posts
    6,709

    Default

    It may be that his hind steps are not close enough, and he's getting claustrophobic.
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



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