The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2011
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    122

    Default What colour could she be?

    After reading the other thread about sabino and other patterns, I was wondering if anyone could give me an answer as to what might be going on with my 2012 (bay) filly Happy Dayz.
    Breeding, she is by the stallion Cardento who is a grey and by Ojoysie a black KWPN.
    She has a few grey hairs in her mane and a bunch on the underside of her tail. That being said I do not think she is going to go grey as I can't find any other greying (though it is still a possibility).
    She also has white on her bottom lip so I am wondering if she is sabino. When they have white on the lower lip does that automatically mean they are sabino?

    Here are some photos of her (there are also photos of the dam, the sire and her full sibling, a black going grey colt):

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...3815297&type=3

    Hopefully you can get an idea by the photos that are in that album, I will take more tomorrow. There are pictures of the dam and sire in the album as well.
    I should mention this is not a sales add, she is my keeper!
    Thank you in advance
    Last edited by ShortStory; Apr. 25, 2013 at 11:18 AM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    18,755

    Default

    She looks brown to me--but my "brown" meter is admittedly a little questionable, so hopefully JB checks in here, as she is the brown expert


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2011
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    122

    Default

    Thanks! I am really hope JB will come and give me answers I was just thinking she was a bay with some kind of sabino going on. I am just curious as I think that the genetics behind them are cool! I also have a rabicano mare which i think is really neat (she might be brown).



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    18,755

    Default

    FWIW, I think JB called my mare frame with her lower lip white, but she's a little different than your girl. I don't have any great pics of her online but you can at least get an idea here.

    I also thought sabino with all the white, but apparently that's not the only gene that causes such markings.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    37,133

    Default

    I really think she's black, and the "brown" pictures are of her faded. However, she'd be an interesting one to test. Her head shot just looks very much like a black, especially her muzzle. Even in her 'brown" pictures, her head does not look like what I'd expect a brown to look like ,but what I'd expect a faded black to look like. The problem is that I've seen a picture of a tested brown horse who was pretty much jet black LOL However, I did not see a picture of that horse in the faded timeframe, so I can't compare that one to this one. I do think black for this one.

    As for the white - very much Splash due to the horizontal nature of the LH sock in particular, but all the white socks in general, and likely Sabino putting some jaggedness on the edges.

    Simkie - I don't remember your mare off hand (sorry!) but I wouldn't have called her Frame based on lower lip white. She might have something else going on that might have caused me to think frame, but not that

    And you're right in your "apparently" Splash loves to put bottom-heavy markings on horses,and behaves very much as if a given body part was dipped in white paint, which gives the horizontal look to leg white, even if the edges themselves are not smooth, and gives a bottom-heavy appearance to face white.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 7, 2005
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
    Posts
    5,377

    Default

    I think people are looking at the mare? It's the foal in the photos closer to the bottom that you're curious about, correct?



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    37,133

    Default

    Ok, you'll have to clarify which foal, as I see an obviously bay one, though I think you might be referring to the second one, which is a black foal I'm 99% certain will gray.

    https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...16504672_n.jpg
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2002
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,839

    Default

    Based on the six grey foals I have raised so far, I would say the foal in those pictures will grey.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2011
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    122

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by furlong47 View Post
    I think people are looking at the mare? It's the foal in the photos closer to the bottom that you're curious about, correct?

    Thank you, I guess I should clarify, the mare I believe is true black, she has not faded since those pictures in 2011 before I owned her. The black going grey colt is in the album as he is a full sibling to the filly I am questioning about..

    The bay filly is the one that I am wondering about, you might not be able to see it fully, but the tail is grey underneath and the mane has a few grey hairs. Thanks again, sorry I thought I had mentioned it was the bay filly, I was confused by the brown discussion.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    37,133

    Default

    So it's this filly you're asking about?
    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...46689766_n.jpg

    Any white/silver hairs in her tail at this point are very typical baby flaxen, which 99% of the time disappears within a couple of years, and 99.999% of the time by the time they are fully adults.

    I actually do think she's brown. She may also be homozygous brown, as it's theorized by researchers, and I'm seeing more tested ones, that AtAt is lighter than Ata. I'm seeing AtAt horses who actually look very much like "mahogany bay" which is really throwing a wrench in things LOL
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2006
    Posts
    10,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Simkie - I don't remember your mare off hand (sorry!) but I wouldn't have called her Frame based on lower lip white. She might have something else going on that might have caused me to think frame, but not that
    Sabino does that, right?



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    37,133

    Default

    It can, as well as Splash.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2011
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    122

    Default

    Here I took more photos of her tail today, originally I thought it was just the baby tail as you said JB but I have never seen one so grey underneath, and it seems to be growing more grey hairs. Here are the new photos:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2008
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    579

    Default

    I seem to remember something about the "gulastra plume" being a lighter tail with the other typical black point on a bay. I believe it is a modification of the sabino gene - perhaps that is what you are seeing?
    Alison/Mikali Farms
    www.mikalifarms.com



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    37,133

    Default

    That's quite a lot, you're right. And it's quite gray.

    Gulastra Plume is not currently thought to have a link to Sabino, and it tends to be a lot more silvery as opposed to looking so gray.

    There is quite a bit of evidence now that Sabino (and maybe even Splash) can cause some "color shifting" in the mane, tail, body color, or some combination. Given she's probably at least Splash, maybe also Sabino, that could be what's going on. That would be very cool if she keeps the lightness
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2011
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    122

    Default

    thanks everyone! JB I am hoping it will stay a fun colour, who do you think it came from, the dam?



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    37,133

    Default

    I can't tell if Cardento has any face white, though it doesn't look like he's got any leg white. That said - don't need to present Sabino or Splash for it to be present So in this case, it could have come from either parent.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2007
    Posts
    1,928

    Default

    I think bay and pretty sure she is not grey but we could be wrong on that. The tail could be rabicano white like a skunk tail but it could be "wild" bay as it seems more flaxeny I think that her legs in the foal pictures show that flaxeny baby color on her lower legs that goes away and is replaced by black...none of the older pictures show her legs clearly to see what has happened there. The presence of that flaxeny tan is making it less likely she is a grey as like a black foal looking smokey as a foal a bay going grey looks bay before it greys with black legs. I am guessing she might be a more wild type bay with more faded black markings on her legs and a more faded tail. Though wild bays http://www.whitehorseproductions.com/ecg_basics2.html tend to be more tan between their back legs and she seems red. Winter color and baby coats can be different coat to coat in young horses, it is a more adult color by about 3. Such a nice filly congratulations. PatO



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    37,133

    Default

    The tail is just much too gray to be rabicano or Gulastra Plume - those are white/silver. Even baby flaxen is much more blonde.

    Flaxen doesn't present on black-based colors.

    This picture shows very high black points, and nearly 100% rules out any type of wild bay
    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...36669950_n.jpg
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2011
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    122

    Default

    Thanks everyone, so we are thinking bay or brown, and splash and with maybe sabino? I can't test her for the splash/ sabino, right?
    Also, for the dam, if anything what would I test her for colour wise?

    Quote Originally Posted by columbus View Post
    Such a nice filly congratulations. PatO
    Thanks! I am actually super excited about her, she is everything I wanted and more! I am still on cloud 9 as I just purchased her dam (who I rode and have been trying to buy for the past few years). The filly is hilarious she has now jumped the 5ft by 6ft round bale and the gate, but very methodically :P Can't wait to breed her then show her in the future



Similar Threads

  1. Is this colour even possible...?
    By Ibex in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: Apr. 27, 2013, 11:45 AM
  2. Can Someone Please Help Me Colour Calculate?
    By Hony in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Oct. 2, 2012, 05:15 PM
  3. Just for fun: what colour?
    By stolensilver in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Apr. 21, 2012, 09:08 AM
  4. What colour...
    By Made In Canada in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Apr. 23, 2010, 04:12 AM
  5. Confusing Colour
    By SquishTheBunny in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Mar. 5, 2010, 08:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness