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  1. #261
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    Oct. 6, 2002
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    Philadelphia PA
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    Once I rode a horse coming back from 9+ months of layup Aced, at home, for his first ride back (no turnout until he was up to 20 mins trotting). It was not a pleasant experience. I didn't really feel like the horse was calmer, he was the same amount of wound-- he just wasn't 100% sure where his feet were. NOT a feeling I EVER care to replicate. I cannot fathom someone intentionally riding and jumping a horse that felt like that at a show.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


    8 members found this post helpful.

  2. #262
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    Aug. 19, 2012
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    PA
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    331

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    To me, the whole concept of drugging a horse for safety and/or the perception of safety of the rider goes against logic.

    I would feel much safer on a horse that is maybe a little "up" or "full of himself" but has full command of his faculties and knows where all his legs are, than I would on one that has been sedated.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  3. #263
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2010
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    Satan's Steam Sauna
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    I have to say that I continue to think about and be disturbed by this. I am flabbergasted that, if what the blog said is true, a trainer with so very much to lose would be so flagrant about drugging horses - at a competition, no less. I keep thinking about it from the perspective of a non-horsey parent or a young horse crazy student. Everyone who has commented here seems very clear that drugging is wrong for many reasons - including the fact that it is CHEATING; and we are clear that cheating is WRONG. However, the blogger is completely non-chalant about drugging and seemingly oblivious / in complete denial that drugging is cheating.

    "Please, no crit for using drugs. It was a local show and <Horsey> has limited experience being off the farm. He is the type of horse who worries and gets oversensitive, difficult, and strong to ride. The only way to help him is to keep taking him on trips and insure that he has good experiences. I will never assume that we need drugs to have one, I will always give him the benefit of doubt and see where his head is at before I decide. It is also entirely my trainer’s decision, and I trust her judgement of where we are both at. By no means will I ride my horse drugged at every single show, I know by the end of the season (at least, if not before) he’ll be calmer. He just needs positive experiences, and if we need to drug him to get that then that is what we will decide to do. Thank you all for reading, and I do appreciate your comments."

    Somebody mentioned "Drinking the Kool-Aid", and I doubt if any non-horsey parents would question experienced, respected trainer regarding "calming" medications. When the expert says, "this is how we do it"; and the result is a positive outcome - Drugged horse takes home 6 ribbons; just How many kids are being brought up this way???
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #264
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2009
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    Location: Indiana, but my heart is in Zone II
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    2,731

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticky Situation View Post
    To me, the whole concept of drugging a horse for safety and/or the perception of safety of the rider goes against logic.

    .
    Whatever do you mean? It's common knowledge people drive better when they are drunk or stoned! People who are riding drugged horses can be the crash test dummy volunteers.

    I wonder if they would jump into a car with a friend who's tipsy.... I'm sorry... a friend who just had a few to take the edge off...
    Come to the dark side, we have cookies


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #265
    Join Date
    Oct. 9, 2002
    Location
    Shippensburg, PA
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    1,688

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    *FACEPALM*

    When you are 22-23 you know damn well that drugging is inappropriate. Drugging isn't allowed in any sport. This is common sense. Someone of this age is totally responsible for what they say and do... at that age you can be shipped off to war and fight for your country, you definitely know right from wrong. Whatta maroon!!!!!!
    Erin and
    Instant Karma "Sunny", ShineDown "Liam"

    "You can't control the wind, but you can adjust the sails."


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #266
    Join Date
    Jul. 22, 2008
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    1,369

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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    Once I rode a horse coming back from 9+ months of layup Aced, at home, for his first ride back (no turnout until he was up to 20 mins trotting). It was not a pleasant experience. I didn't really feel like the horse was calmer, he was the same amount of wound-- he just wasn't 100% sure where his feet were. NOT a feeling I EVER care to replicate. I cannot fathom someone intentionally riding and jumping a horse that felt like that at a show.
    My farrier refuses to work on a horse who has been aced. He says it's dangerous. If a horse needs to be tranquilized he prefers dormosedan.



  7. #267
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2010
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    Satan's Steam Sauna
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAY View Post
    My farrier refuses to work on a horse who has been aced. He says it's dangerous. If a horse needs to be tranquilized he prefers dormosedan.
    Whatever my vets use when floating teeth is NOT something I would ever want to be near the horse - much less ride it. It makes them wobbly drunks. I am assuming the "druggie cocktail" is something different???
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Instant Karma View Post
    *FACEPALM*

    When you are 22-23 you know damn well that drugging is inappropriate. Drugging isn't allowed in any sport. This is common sense. Someone of this age is totally responsible for what they say and do... at that age you can be shipped off to war and fight for your country, you definitely know right from wrong. Whatta maroon!!!!!!
    You are correct. However, it is not hard at all - in fact it is quite easy - to convince people of something they want to believe. And, it sounds like there is a barn full of enablers. And, if true, it seems like there is a whole culture of "druggie cocktail" acceptance.

    Blogger comes across as a macaroon, yes. But, I really worry about the younger riders who are being indoctrinated into this drugging / cheating culture, and I feel sorry for the unwitting parents who invest so much time and money thinking their child is involved in something positive and wholesome -- a character building activity. I have recommended horses for so many of my academically struggling / low self esteem female students, and it makes me angry to think that any of them might end up like the blogger
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #269
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    Oct. 9, 2002
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    Shippensburg, PA
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    I see where you are coming from, but she wrote her own disclaimer that she essentially didn't want to hear it from people about her horse needing to be drugged. So she knew it's not a good thing, she just lacked in discretion. Craziness.
    Erin and
    Instant Karma "Sunny", ShineDown "Liam"

    "You can't control the wind, but you can adjust the sails."


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #270
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2005
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    PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticky Situation View Post
    To me, the whole concept of drugging a horse for safety and/or the perception of safety of the rider goes against logic.

    I would feel much safer on a horse that is maybe a little "up" or "full of himself" but has full command of his faculties and knows where all his legs are, than I would on one that has been sedated.
    I wont get started on competing a drugged horse...because that is just plain wrong.

    But re-habbing. Absolutely. I have one who has been on stall rest for over 9 months. A cc of Ace and she keeps her head and doesn't rear or buck which could undo the MONTHS of re-hab we have done. It is more than sitting on a horse full of themselves....you can NOT ride them like you normally would. They are typically limited as to what they can do. No sharp turns, NO circles...walk only (for MONTHS) then walk 40 minutes and trot 2. etc. Again, not situtations where you can ride them out if they are full of themselves and if they do buck, rear spin....it could undo months of the rehab...and hell if they get you off...real damage. I know ones that ended up with career enders.

    I've had several others where Ace was not enough in the re-hab. There is a drug called SediVet that is great for this purpose as it will take the edge off them more than Ace (which most horses can blow right through) but they still know where their feet are. BUT this is at home...and in extreme situations. If they are still dangerous on SediVet....they get sent to rehab barns that have the equipement to do the controlled exercise without a rider.....

    But there can be situations where there is a need to drug a horse for safety.

    But it IS NOT a training tool. Green horses need miles...yup...they need miles undrugged with a decent handler and rider and in the right situations. If they are too freaked out at a show to be managable...they are not ready for a show and need to go out to lower key outings until ready.
    Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Apr. 30, 2013 at 06:27 PM.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #271
    Join Date
    Jul. 22, 2008
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    1,369

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    Quote Originally Posted by ldaziens View Post
    Whatever my vets use when floating teeth is NOT something I would ever want to be near the horse - much less ride it. It makes them wobbly drunks. I am assuming the "druggie cocktail" is something different???
    No, I wasn't suggesting that someone ride their horse after giving it dormosedan. I was responding to vxf111's post about not feeling comfortable riding her horse when he was given ace after a lay-up. My farrier feels that it makes horses too unpredictable as they can blow through it. Still, I think Ace is probably the sedative of choice for local shows without drug testers.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #272
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2004
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    NE Indiana
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAY View Post
    No, I wasn't suggesting that someone ride their horse after giving it dormosedan. I was responding to vxf111's post about not feeling comfortable riding her horse when he was given ace after a lay-up. My farrier feels that it makes horses too unpredictable as they can blow through it. Still, I think Ace is probably the sedative of choice for local shows without drug testers.
    I agree with your farrier. I don't like Ace because if it's given to a horse when they are already anxious, it just seems to make things worse. I can't believe people have success drugging. It seems to me like a wreck waiting to happen. Why do the stupid people get away with so much stupid stuff?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #273
    Join Date
    Sep. 26, 2008
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    1,291

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    oh heck they can blow through Ace, rode a horse on 2cc's after a layup per vet recommendations, horse was calm as can be before getting it, hanging for a few min after getting it and then hand walking before getting on

    that sucker still bolted off bucking like a fool

    an anxious horse would have to get some serious stuff to go from hyped to "dead"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #274
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2011
    Location
    Maryland
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    2,124

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    This thread would be way funner if we had a house guest or two
    Barn rat for life

    The Big Horse


    7 members found this post helpful.

  15. #275
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2004
    Location
    NE Indiana
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    So true!



  16. #276
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    Apr. 11, 2006
    Location
    Southern Ontario
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    1,102

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    OMFG. If you can't show within the rules, DON'T SHOW. Do not COMPETE against other people if for whatever reason you cannot adhere to the rules. PERIOD.

    Showing is not a freaking god-given right.

    The sport should be RIDING, with shows as icing on the cake -- a chance to SHOW off your hard work and accomplishment. When the "sport" is actually "SHOWING" -- i.e., where the main activity, really, is shopping for expensive stuff, and prep consists mainly of paying a trainer to figure out what cheats and short cuts are necessary to create the illusion that you have put in the hard work so you can take home that ribbon -- well, it greases the wheels of a gigantic industry but it sort of cheapens the whole concept, no?

    Jesus wept.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  17. #277
    Join Date
    Oct. 21, 2009
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    South Central: Zone 7
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    I couldn't get the link to the cached version to work. Could someone PM me a working one if available? If it really is who it seems to be then I am very disappointed as I have worked with them before (albeit in a limited capacity)...



  18. #278
    Join Date
    May. 11, 2010
    Location
    PA
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    864

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    Quote Originally Posted by hntrjmprpro45 View Post
    I couldn't get the link to the cached version to work. Could someone PM me a working one if available? If it really is who it seems to be then I am very disappointed as I have worked with them before (albeit in a limited capacity)...
    I can access other cached pages of the site except the one in question. I think it has finally gone the way of the dodo bird....



  19. #279
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2003
    Location
    Alberta
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    5,356

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    hmmmmm,because I am technically NOT savvy I didn't even know cashed pages could be deleted (I too cannot get them to come up anymore)
    Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!



  20. #280
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2013
    Posts
    20

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    Quote Originally Posted by wcporter View Post
    This thread would be way funner if we had a house guest or two
    It is already fun! In case some of you missed it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEhPXrlK5BQ


    2 members found this post helpful.

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