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  1. #241
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    Any news on reporting this drug use or not from the OP??

    I just don't understand - - -

    When I was a kid riding a horse that was too much for me I got bucked off, learned how to stay on. I survived thank goodness. Today things are much different. (this was 30 some years ago)

    Now I have found when my horses are idiots they need more work. And there are those days you have to exit the show ring, forfeit your show day, walk into the schooling ring, change YOUR own attitude because your horse is trying to tell you something. Not go to druggies. It's about the horse and clearly if the horse acts like an idiot there is something that has been done wrong. In the last few months I have spent a butt load of money just taking my new horse to the shows simply for miles. My horse doesn't know he's not in a judged class. I know this is a part of it and we will have good days and bad.

    To be an excellent horse person the key is to understand your animal and know pushing them or drugging them is never the solution. It's on their time not ours. And we have to face the fact when we have a horse and it's just not going to work out to find another option for that horse and find one that can do the job safely.
    How people treat you is their KARMA.... how you REACT is yours!


    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #242
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    May you never get old and have less, not more, to look forward to!

    And I'm not so old yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by dags View Post
    The little kid can also break her neck and never walk again.
    True, but the little kid (or middle-aged adult) doesn't walk in expecting that outcome. Someone who is 70 certainly knows that her riding days are numbered in a way that the younger types don't. It would be cool if the oldster didn't have to face yet one more limitation.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  3. #243
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    Mar. 20, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2tempe View Post
    years ago in my hunter days one of my "show mates" was a 60+ woman, not great rider who showed a lovely adult hunter. She rode the horse to probably 3-4 bad distances every time, got left in the tack, slammed him in the teeth etc. He NEVER did anything naughty, but after about a year or so, he began to shake his head
    every time she rode him. I have always wondered what that horse was on...
    I will say that that barn did whatever it took to keep said rider happy - she had a couple horses, lots of $ and was happy to go to every show from Ky horse park to Saratoga and Vermont.
    It always comes down to money, doesn't it? Instead of a trainer being honest with a not so capable rider (old or young, it doesn't matter), they will do anything to keep that client happy, and the money rolling in. This goes hand in hand with over horsing a client, to keep them dependent on them, and thus a forever client.
    Heaven forbid the client be told they need more work, the horse is too much for them, they will sometimes have to scratch, if the horse is having an off day, etc. And the # 1 reason, maybe the trainer hasn't done such a good job training the horse and the rider.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candle View Post
    Nobody is forcing the older lady to compete. I'm sure there are a lot of other activities that she also can't do, and coping with that is part of aging gracefully.
    That's a way to show the old lady the door nicely and make it sound like a good idea for her to accept less and less. Look, if you are 70, you are already well aware that your life of physical recreation will get more narrow. No fun to have the whippersnappers rub it in your face.

    If you read my above posts about this spin-off case, you guys know I don't think it's OK to drug a horse because someone wants to show really, really bad. Along with that, it's nice to have some compassion, too.

    And for the person who has had a rough time of it with a tough horse, too bad. I have owned horses not sound enough to show. That sucks big rocks, I assure you.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #245
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    Co
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublesstable View Post
    Any news on reporting this drug use or not from the OP??

    I just don't understand - - -
    I don't think that there is anything to be done at this point in time.
    The show is over, the trainers connections are involved with the show, and it is too late to test the horse.

    You'll have to be satisfied that the trainer has been called out (albeit unintentionally) by her student.
    As for the other participants in the classes that the blogger entered, they really have no recourse at this point in time. They can only know that , perhaps THEY were really the best that day, and lost to a cheater.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #246
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    Jan. 27, 2003
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    CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    You mean, I should name names so that the Mods can close a thread because it's possible to figure out the IRL people and some COTHer did that?

    IMO, the reason they haven't closed this thread is because no one has done that yet. So as long as the blogger remains anonymous here, things can roll along. That has nothing to do with whether or not the blogger decided to out herself to the public on her own blog. The damage done to the trainer is between the blogger and that pro.

    I don't know who the rider or trainer is. I don't care particularly. I wasn't the one to suggest that this thread was breaking COTH rules. I believe it is not. I asked you for examples of similar ones, which you didn't provide. I have nothing invested in testing this rule; I'm happy with my hypothesis about why it has not been closed.

    I'm also happy with the standards of discussing stuff that goes on in H/J world and leaving IRL identities out of it unless there's a compelling reason to name names. I appreciate the discretion of people in the area of the blogger's barn who want to get the rider or pro's name via PMs. That's useful for them, and COTH's public BB plus the PM feature help.
    OMG, that is not what I said at all.

    You asked me for threads as examples of someone breakin the rules because in your 5 years and 11k posts you haven't seen it done before. In my 10 years and 9k posts, I have BUT I will not go searching for it for you. If you want an example, go find it for yourself. I couldn't care less about whether this thread stays open or gets closed.

    What I suggested was if you want an example so badly, why don't you test the rule for yourself? Personally, I don't really want to see the names posted. I think this girl will suffer enough and I'm sure the trainers are not happy about the situation either. Good enough for me.

    I just don't get you, honestly. I can't tell if you are the queen of the flip-flop as I've seen a number of posts from you that seem to outright contradict others you post or you are just post off the cuff and don't keep track of what you've written.
    Last edited by RugBug; Apr. 28, 2013 at 10:27 PM.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #247
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    california
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    I come from a non-drugging show experience and to say that a 70 year old "requires" that her horse be druggedto show is just silly. There are plenty of saintly horses that are great in the show ring-I suppose the trainer of the 70 year old picks her up and drops her off at her doorstep since driving might result in a very serious accident.

    Riding is a sport, as is skiing, ice hockey, cycling and other sports that come with physical risk. The idea that people should have this risk eliminated in order to participate, is one of the most assinine arguments I have ever heard. We all take risks from our sports, and drugging IS CHEATING, period.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  8. #248
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    Jun. 3, 2012
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    Louisa County, Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Riding is a sport, as is skiing, ice hockey, cycling and other sports that come with physical risk. The idea that people should have this risk eliminated in order to participate, is one of the most assinine arguments I have ever heard. We all take risks from our sports, and drugging IS CHEATING, period.
    Well said. And again, there's no one holding a gun to your head, requiring you to enter a competition.

    Sometimes in my fantasy life, where catfish muck stalls and chickens lay bacon, I think we should let competitors ingest, inject, and subject their horses to anything they want -- but it would all have to be disclosed on the judge's card, on the sign above the ring, in the prizelist, and over the loudspeakers. Oh, and their veterinarian's name, also.

    Yeah, people would lie and cheat about this too, but you know, that's why it's Fantasyworld. It would make those Devon photos with "Where Champions Meet" in the background MUCH more interesting.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  9. #249

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    I have, on occassion, given the odd horse a small hit of Ace to relax them at their early show experiences - that said, they were at schooling shows and I always showed hors concours.

    Sometimes lunging and schooling the hell out of them just doesn't work in their early experiences.
    http://www.tbhsa.com/index.html

    Originally Posted by JSwan
    I love feral children. They taste like chicken.



  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    I come from a non-drugging show experience and to say that a 70 year old "requires" that her horse be druggedto show is just silly. There are plenty of saintly horses that are great in the show ring-I suppose the trainer of the 70 year old picks her up and drops her off at her doorstep since driving might result in a very serious accident.


    Getting in a car has a percentage of danger too... I don't see people drugging other drivers because they create too much risk. As a matter of fact wouldn't that be MORE dangerous. Oh, makes my point - riding a drugged horse is dangerous too.
    How people treat you is their KARMA.... how you REACT is yours!


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #251
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    Mar. 27, 2009
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    Upstate NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sing Mia Song View Post
    If I texted my trainer that I needed a cocktail, she would have sent over a gin and tonic and a longe line.

    Seriously, I'm in the area, and gobsmacked at who the trainer is. Zowza.
    '

    Seriously - my trainer's answer for the bloggers problem is: "So double his ride times and ride him every day of the week with one day off for a break. A tired horse is a good horse! Oh, and, yes, the longe line is your friend!"

    How many times have I heard her say that - a tired horse is a good horse!

    Edited to add: When I don't ride my horse everyday, he finds ways to keep himself highly entertained - he reaches over his fence and bites, he calls and whinnies and gallops around sliding into fences because other horses are hanging with what he percieves as "his" mares; He (tries) to dance circles around you on the ground; drops one shoulder and scoots out from under you in the ring; he throws his grain bucket around, drops mouthfuls of grain into his water bucket and blows bubbles trying to retrieve it, turns around in the cross ties and watches you get something out of the trunk behind him with his head at the ceiling, rolling one eye down to watch you from on high. Piaffes in the trailer.

    But work him every day (with Mondays off) and he can be found dozing under a shade tree. He'll lean his head against me when I get him out of the field, drops his head and cocks one hip in the crossties, opens his mouth and reaches for the bit during bridling, digs in and works during his workouts. I don't have to drug him, although there are moments when my mind runs desperately through all the reasons why I don't drug my horses. I have to work him harder and he straightens up just fine.
    Trainer's website - photos of my horse Airborne under About and Francesca Edwards also in media page 1

    http://www.patricianorciadressage.com/


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #252
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    Oct. 14, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyGiantPony View Post
    I have, on occassion, given the odd horse a small hit of Ace to relax them at their early show experiences - that said, they were at schooling shows and I always showed hors concours.

    Sometimes lunging and schooling the hell out of them just doesn't work in their early experiences.
    I would support and do support Ace being used for a nervous horse trailering, new to farrier, clipping problems or needed for vet treatments such as teeth, sheath, xrays...

    I don't even have a problem with a hit of ace at a show as long as the horse isn't competing. I personally would wait until the horse has been to a few shows to just hang out and can go to a show without ace then could compete.

    Even acing at a schooling show and competing IMHO would be cheating. Take the horse to as many shows possible safely until he gets the hang of it before competing. The horse doesn't know if your are being judged or not and still gets the exposure.
    How people treat you is their KARMA.... how you REACT is yours!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #253
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    Feb. 20, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublesstable View Post
    I would support and do support Ace being used for a nervous horse trailering, new to farrier, clipping problems or needed for vet treatments such as teeth, sheath, xrays...

    I don't even have a problem with a hit of ace at a show as long as the horse isn't competing. I personally would wait until the horse has been to a few shows to just hang out and can go to a show without ace then could compete.

    Even acing at a schooling show and competing IMHO would be cheating. Take the horse to as many shows possible safely until he gets the hang of it before competing. The horse doesn't know if your are being judged or not and still gets the exposure.
    I'm pretty sure "hors concours" means it was unjudged, just going through the motions of showing for experience without being in the competition. Which, if the girl writing the blog had done just to "give her horse a good experience", would've been fine enough from a no-cheating perspective.
    Old lady should consider doing the same, although her third-party story has apparently now changed from "it's ok for old ladies to cheat" to "no, most of the time the trainer's just messing with her".


    7 members found this post helpful.

  14. #254
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    I can only think of one show that I have heard thru the grape vine that management and other competitors are fine with the competing horses getting some calm and cool or something similar

    and that show would be the state special Olympics were this is almost the only show that these horses and riders show at and it is at a big indoor arena, riders only are judged not horses and they want the horses to be a good as gold

    and most of these horses are donated therapeutic horses owned by programs that are fine and dandy at home but can get big eyed at the show

    so if you are not showing at this show, no drugs/paste/cocktails etc for you


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coanteen View Post
    I'm pretty sure "hors concours" means it was unjudged, just going through the motions of showing for experience without being in the competition. Which, if the girl writing the blog had done just to "give her horse a good experience", would've been fine enough from a no-cheating perspective.
    Old lady should consider doing the same, although her third-party story has apparently now changed from "it's ok for old ladies to cheat" to "no, most of the time the trainer's just messing with her".
    LOL - Read Concours - my hubby has cars.. LOL which means you compete on the look of others cars...

    I think saw the hors part but thought she typed horse wrong. LOL

    Yeah, no problem with that at all and think that is the issue of this thread - if the blogger would have just schooled through it and that's what she should be taught by her trainer....
    How people treat you is their KARMA.... how you REACT is yours!



  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martha Drum View Post
    Sometimes in my fantasy life, where catfish muck stalls and chickens lay bacon,
    Ranks right up there with one of the funniest things I have read on this BB. Well done!

    WRT the original blogger, it just makes me sad (a little angry, but mostly sad). Hopefully she will have realized the error of her ways, had a monstrous epiphany,dumped the current trainer, and joined a nice drug-free barn to learn to get it done the old fashioned way.
    "Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing" - Robert Benchley
    Cotton would fight.
    http://buildingthegrove.blogspot.com/


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sing Mia Song View Post
    If I texted my trainer that I needed a cocktail, she would have sent over a gin and tonic and a longe line.

    Seriously, I'm in the area, and gobsmacked at who the trainer is. Zowza.
    This made me LOL!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #258
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    Mar. 10, 2013
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    Of course it happens in the Jumpers. Calming at low levels, pain meds and various concoctions for "feel good" tonics, anti pain/inflammatory and whatever equivalent of speed guaranteed not to test is the must have of the moment.

    You might be surprised how many of the often idolized big jumper names have been on short vacations- one year about 1998 or so when the tests started getting more sophisticated a large number of GP riders, including Olympians came up with positives. Some more surprises a few years after that when they could pick up Reserpine.
    Glad you couldn't see my face fall reading that, really disappointing. I suppose it's good to be aware that this goes on at all levels, but dang. Good thing I had this to cheer me up...

    Quote Originally Posted by Martha Drum View Post
    Sometimes in my fantasy life, where catfish muck stalls and chickens lay bacon,


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #259
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    Mar. 21, 2013
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    Adding my two cents in again here.

    I was really thinking about this today. Some people have no concept of ethics in this sport. Like everyone somewhere in this post was saying (or really, its just the general theme here or so it looks like to me), this girl has obviously been taught somewhere down the line that drugging(aka just cheating in general) to get the desired result is okay. In my opinion, its probably started from a young age and not having your parents hang the whole mantra of "Cheating isn't okay" over your head. That's something that my parents instilled in me from a young age and that i've carried over into this sport. Grabbing and going for the needle might be easier than preparing your horse and actually putting in the elbow grease, but ultimately if you're the type that puts in the work then it'll show in the ring. I'll admit that some judges i've shown under in the past can definitely tell and will reward you when they see that you're the kind of rider who actually thinks as opposed to just sitting there and going through the motions.

    But then again, its common sense. Are you that desperate to win? That you'll drug for even the smallest shows? Sure, i've always had the mentality that schooling show or A rated show, a show is still a show and you should treat it as such. But if my horse is having a bad day, they're having a bad day. You just have to go back and work through it.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #260
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    Wow, I guess I could just drug my mare and I could comfortably move up the levels? Why didn't I think of that? Maybe because it's my responsibility to learn how to ride, not mask it with drugs.

    I can't imagine drugging a horse for a competition and feeling anything but sick about any ribbons I received because of it. It's cheating on so many levels.
    Born under a rock and owned by beasts!


    2 members found this post helpful.

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