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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    That form of drugging is illegal.

    Trainer, or whoever is the author of that "you betcha" conviction that they will use whatever means to make sure the client's horse is "100% Saint" at a show for a timid rider who "enjoys" shows are in the wrong.

    The part that bugs me is that you are so sure that the desires and needs of the client trump all else.
    I was taught that those calm-and-cool pastes don't have any effect on the horse and are simply psychological band-aids for the rider. If those things actually have an effect on the horse, then I would find it unethical. I want to make it very clear that I absolutely would never use such a product.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #182
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    Actually, Calm-And-Cool IS an illegal form of drugging. Whomever taught you it's only a psychological bandaid fed you a line of junk.

    If I'm not mistaken, C-A-C also tests (but I could be misremembering).

    I'm not sure where I stand with my opinion on the rider, but I am firm on my stance with this "trainer" and her connections. I hope she is shamed into "rehab" by this blog.
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique



  3. #183
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    Nov. 16, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by californianinkansas View Post
    I was taught that those calm-and-cool pastes don't have any effect on the horse and are simply psychological band-aids for the rider. If those things actually have an effect on the horse, then I would find it unethical. I want to make it very clear that I absolutely would never use such a product.
    All of them? Because some of them do indeed, have drugs in them, or at least naturals that are widely used as calming products. They may not work on every horse in every situation, but they aren't psychological.



  4. #184
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    Mar. 10, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by californianinkansas View Post
    Regarding the drugging:
    Definitely not restricted to the hunter world. My background is (non-sored) flat-shod TWH and Arabians. I would expect this to be a problem across all breeds and disciplines.
    I don't think I was clear with my original question, what I was trying to ask was does this happen in the jumpers? I assumed it wouldn't be bothered with in disciplines judged on clear cut performance (like jumpers or team penning) as opposed to those judged more subjectively on style (hunters or wp), but I'm wondering if I'm incorrect with that assumption.



  5. #185
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    May. 5, 2009
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    Location: Indiana, but my heart is in Zone II
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    Quote Originally Posted by marginall View Post
    I'm vehemently against drugging but I think this thread is awful. This girl is a beginner level rider who clearly loves her horse, spends more time with her horse than the average rider by the sound of it, makes time to take care of her horse at the crack of dawn before work and helps her barnmates at shows. There is no malice behind what she wrote. The person truly at fault is the trainer and the proverbial system. This girl only knows what she knows because of the people training her.

    Anyone making fun of a beginner rider should be ashamed. It doesn't help the rider or horse, doesn't encourage learning and seeking advice outside her circle and is just plain bad horsemanship.
    I don't see anyone making fun of her. She clearly knows its wrong to drug because she states not to make comments about drugging her horse. I do think the topic of hideously unethical trainers is more appropriate at this point. Some owners will always be sheep, letting trainers do "whatever it takes" to earn the almighty dollar. These trainers need to be taken out if circulation (and the clients need to wise up).
    Come to the dark side, we have cookies


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  6. #186
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    May. 4, 2008
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    Virginia
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    I just want to say that if my googling led me to the right person for the rider and subsequently the right person for the "trainer" and their show stables, I'm really angry. It's not a little barn that only goes to local shows unless I'm really out in left field with my suspicion of who this is. They're drugging to win, and clients are bragging about it on the net. That's so far beyond wrong as to be unbelievable. I love cached pages, I just love them. What's on the internet stays on the internet - forever! Thank goodness. It looks like a lot of folks might have been beaten recently by a group that drugs.

    Honestly, I'm hoping the drugging is limited to one green horse at a local show and is not their usual MO to win. Unfortunatley, they've now been painted with the drugging brush and even if they've never drugged another horse besides THIS one animal, it will be impossible for them to undo the damage to their reputation. (And since the blogger posted openly that cocktails are slang for 'druggies' at their barn, I'm guessing the use of druggies is pretty widespread). I hope they are caught out at an A show so they can be appropriately penalized for what they are doing. Shameful, really.
    Sorry to see xtranormal is gone
    For funnies, search youtube for horseyninjawarrior!

    Www.caringbridge.org/visit/mysecretgarden


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #187
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    Aug. 28, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenike View Post
    Actually, Calm-And-Cool IS an illegal form of drugging. Whomever taught you it's only a psychological bandaid fed you a line of junk.

    If I'm not mistaken, C-A-C also tests (but I could be misremembering).

    I'm not sure where I stand with my opinion on the rider, but I am firm on my stance with this "trainer" and her connections. I hope she is shamed into "rehab" by this blog.
    Just to clairify: I have never used C-A-C or anything similar. The trainer that I worked for never used C-A-C or any similar substance.


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  8. #188
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    Apr. 28, 2005
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    Chicago
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    The trainer name on the horse shows results seems to be different than the name in the blogger's post. Did I read that wrong, or can someone explain that to me?
    ~ Citizens for a Kinder, Gentler COTH...our mantra: Be nice. ~



  9. #189
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    Aug. 28, 2012
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    Kansas
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    Quote Originally Posted by hundredacres View Post
    All of them? Because some of them do indeed, have drugs in them, or at least naturals that are widely used as calming products. They may not work on every horse in every situation, but they aren't psychological.
    Again, I am not defending using C-A-C or any similar substance. The trainer for whom I worked never used any substances on himself or his horses. He believed that taking shortcuts in training was morally wrong. He would not all even running martingales to be used. I was simply curious. I find the placebo and the nocebo effects on humans to be fascinating.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Button View Post
    I don't think I was clear with my original question, what I was trying to ask was does this happen in the jumpers? I assumed it wouldn't be bothered with in disciplines judged on clear cut performance (like jumpers or team penning) as opposed to those judged more subjectively on style (hunters or wp), but I'm wondering if I'm incorrect with that assumption.
    Oh, sorry. My bad.



  11. #191
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    Sep. 30, 2010
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    SE PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    I found it easily by following the directions posted on this thread.

    Apparently I was too stupid to do that. Someone kindly pm'ed me the info though.


    Quote Originally Posted by kcmel View Post
    I guess you are right about that. I wonder if this will effect their business? Probably not....
    On some level it will. I wanted to know the trainers name, so I know who to avoid.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #192
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexS View Post
    Apparently I was too stupid to do that. Someone kindly pm'ed me the info though.




    On some level it will. I wanted to know the trainers name, so I know who to avoid.
    I'm sorry,I didn't mean to imly that you are stupid.
    I had to ask how to find a cached page and never would have found the other info if not for help from the links on this thread.

    I am tech challanged, and am still wondering if there is any way this person will be able to get rid of the cached pages.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #193
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by snaffle635 View Post
    The trainer name on the horse shows results seems to be different than the name in the blogger's post. Did I read that wrong, or can someone explain that to me?
    I had the same question and was told that ,in the "about" section of the blog, it was stated that the names used in the blog were not the actual names of the people involved.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexS View Post
    Apparently I was too stupid to do that. Someone kindly pm'ed me the info though.
    Yoy aren't alone...except I was called lazy (essentially). Grateful someone was kind to you!

    I wouldn't be giving this barn business, either. But I will tell others to stay away (and pray none of our ponies end up there).
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    I had the same question and was told that ,in the "about" section of the blog, it was stated that the names used in the blog were not the actual names of the people involved.

    Thanks, skydy. I've been trying to keep up with all the posts, but I must have missed your question.
    ~ Citizens for a Kinder, Gentler COTH...our mantra: Be nice. ~



  16. #196
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    Jan. 9, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenike View Post
    Yoy aren't alone...except I was called lazy (essentially). Grateful someone was kind to you!
    Don't let the holier-than-thou posters here keep you from requesting information. Even more so, don't let them make you feel as though there is something wrong with YOU for asking for information. The internet seems to exponentially increase the a$$hole-ness of those who are prone to that type of behavior to begin with.


    18 members found this post helpful.

  17. #197
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    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    Quote Originally Posted by Button View Post
    I don't think I was clear with my original question, what I was trying to ask was does this happen in the jumpers? I assumed it wouldn't be bothered with in disciplines judged on clear cut performance (like jumpers or team penning) as opposed to those judged more subjectively on style (hunters or wp), but I'm wondering if I'm incorrect with that assumption.
    Of course it happens in the Jumpers. Calming at low levels, pain meds and various concoctions for "feel good" tonics, anti pain/inflammatory and whatever equivalent of speed guaranteed not to test is the must have of the moment.

    You might be surprised how many of the often idolized big jumper names have been on short vacations- one year about 1998 or so when the tests started getting more sophisticated a large number of GP riders, including Olympians came up with positives. Some more surprises a few years after that when they could pick up Reserpine.

    Anyway, thanks for the trainer name. Never heard of them. But I know the name now.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #198
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by marginall View Post
    I'm vehemently against drugging but I think this thread is awful. This girl is a beginner level rider who clearly loves her horse, spends more time with her horse than the average rider by the sound of it, makes time to take care of her horse at the crack of dawn before work and helps her barnmates at shows. There is no malice behind what she wrote. The person truly at fault is the trainer and the proverbial system. This girl only knows what she knows because of the people training her.

    Anyone making fun of a beginner rider should be ashamed. It doesn't help the rider or horse, doesn't encourage learning and seeking advice outside her circle and is just plain bad horsemanship.
    I think someone can be a nice guy, clear on some bits of morality while being unclear about others.

    What others have pointed out is correct: Post-Lance Armstrong (and the various steroid scandals is baseball), you'd have to be living under a rock to not know that drugging your show horse is illegal.

    The "blame the reader" remarks posted by the blogger when she took it down were what riled me up. No mea culpa involved, just a snarky, passive-aggressive non-apology to people she had offended.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    6 members found this post helpful.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I think someone who writes a blog about their nefarious dealings is fair game. They are stupid, but fair game. How do you get a more direct (and presumably accurate) account than that? If the trainer wants to rebut the story, she/he can do that.
    Again, YOU might think it is enough. COTH does not.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugBug View Post
    Again, YOU might think it is enough. COTH does not.
    Really? I haven't paid close attention. What's an example of COTH ending or redacting a thread when someone directly involved in something bad described that themselves?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



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