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  1. #81
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    Aug. 12, 2010
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    This person is on here...not with a video of her horse jumping, but asking opinions on the QH shortly before she bought him. I won't tattle, but if you look you can find it. Same horse as on the blog.



  2. #82
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    May. 5, 2009
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    Location: Indiana, but my heart is in Zone II
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    All I can say is, COTHers are good as sleuths (not me, I am not technically challeneged but just don't "follow the trail" well apparently").

    Both trainer and rider are listed, since the very proudly displayed ribbon have the horse show on them, and it was bragged what division was entered.

    Regardless of age, it amazes me that it does not "ring a bell" that drugging is not the answer. I see when unsuspecting owners' horse may get a hit from a less-than-scrupulous trainer. But wow, just wow to brag about it. Not matter how naive, young or new to the game, you'd think common sense prevails that drugging in NOT right and NOT the answer.

    To brag about it? Seems like an intellectually/morally challenged individual.
    Come to the dark side, we have cookies


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
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    Mar. 21, 2013
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    TX
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    221

    Default Just a question to be curious..

    So theoretically, could they disqualify her still/adjust results? That could explain why the results of the said division/classes are not on the Horse Shows Online page.



  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottagrey View Post
    There is drugging and there is drugging and I don't believe it should be that black and white. I have a friend at a barn she's an older woman who enjoys going to the occasional small local show. She's game but slightly timid, she has 85% of the time a saint of a horse, is her trainer going to make sure when they go to a show (we're talking maybe 3-4 times a year) her horse will be 100% saint.. You betcha. On these occasions the trainer might give the horse some feed-thru calm and cool or paste. I also wouldn't get to worked up over some teen's blog about showing.. we don't know what kind of "drug" her horse might have gotten and it could have been a paste of calmer vs. Ace. I'm not sure why people today feel the need to share every little detail about their lives on social media - but in some ways I'm glad they do..
    See, I don't get this. I am older myself (over 50) and "reriding" for three years after many years off. I'm not timid at all, but I'm certainly not the best rider in the world. I would not, however, want a horse drugged (or otherwise "calmed") so I could ride it effectively, or even getting a gazillion training rides so I could ride it. I like to do things myself and solve problems myself. I don't allow myself to be overhorsed and my idea of a good trainer is not one who can put me on a horse and send me into a show ring, but one who can train ME to train the horse and solve problems, that's the most gratifying thing...being able to deal with what comes your way using your own skills and experience. It means you progress more slowly than those who just want to get on and win something, but it's much more satisfying when you do have a good ride.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #85
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    Jan. 8, 2013
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    325

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcmel View Post
    I'm not sure the kid should be outed here, but I am curious as to what part of PA we are talking about.

    The show was in PA (littlestown) but the association is a local MD one. HCHSA
    "People who think their brains are not worth protecting are probably right!"
    - quoted by Martha Drum



  6. #86
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    Jun. 24, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    Umm, matter of perspective- blogger is less then 1/3 my age and therefore a kid. Thinking back to when I was twenty something in college? Not a tribute to maturity though I thought so at the time. Bust a gut laughing at what I thought I knew looking back.

    Shes a kid.
    I made plenty of mistakes when I was younger, in what I assume the OP's age range is. I am now in my late 20s. I was 19 at a barn schooling show when one of the young barn girls told me how they had given the horse she was riding drugs to take the edge off. Before I could hold back I said it was wrong and illegal at bigger shows.

    I made my mistakes but I had ethics. I know cheating is wrong, I know drugging to win is absolutely wrong. I remember talking to a friend who suggested I do this for a gelding I had and talking about how I would have to ask them not to be judged. I know better, so should she.

    As for the person who said they don't kick kids out for plagerizing... You should or have very severe consequences at the least. By that age we are all capable of knowing we are stealing, or cheating. I cannot get over how non chalant this girl was about it. What is the world coming to?

    PS can someone please PM me who? I am also in PA. I knew that blog URL looked familiar.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #87
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    Mar. 4, 2010
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    1,764

    Default My Mistake - Results are there

    Quote Originally Posted by RockinHorse View Post
    Just checked. Adult pleasure and limited adult eq are still posted with results. Perhaps you checked the wrong show?
    Very sorry. Results are there - I was looking at the 14th rather than the 20th. I guess if I am going to sleuth I ought to at least get the dates right!

    Nonetheless, this was an easy one to track down. Have at it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #88
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    Mar. 13, 2003
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    2,224

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    Um, she isn't a kid, she is an adult. She has adult agency and obviously fully approves of this sort of behavior. If she doesn't figure things out now- in the prime age to do so- she will continue to behave unethically. I'm totally on board with using something to calm a horse down at a schooling show but NOT competing on that something. Wrong is wrong in this sort of situation- there is no nuance about this one. If you want to give you and/or your horse a good experience and use drugs to do this, have the decency and respect for the nature of competition itself to go in unjudged.

    I'm amazed at how many people see this as perfectly acceptable- again, I'm not saying never use drugs, but in this case- drugging to get a calm horse to compete in the hunter ring on- well, how is that acceptable? If anyone who thinks it's ok was riding in the same class on an un-doped horse, how would you feel if you found out that the winning horse was doped? I'd be pissed off- it's a competition, and I would expect that we were all following the rules and be angry to find that some of us were not. The bragging about it part is really the cherry on top, though- again, she is an adult and obviously believes she did nothing wrong. Child or adult, doping your hunter in a competition is unethical. No grey area here.
    You can take a line and say it isn't straight- but that won't change its shape. Jets to Brazil


    7 members found this post helpful.

  9. #89
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    Nov. 30, 2005
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    Northfield MN
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    I don't think anyone here thinks drugging for competition is OK. Where we seem to differ is who deserves the most blame for the problem, clueless newbies coming into the sport or the unethical trainers who prey on them. While neither is blameless, I think the professionals are very influential in what their clients believe is acceptable.

    I keep seeing this girl's blog described as bragging. Did we read the same blog? I read someone describing their daily riding activities, including multiple stops and falls at tiny jumps, entering w/t classes at a very small show and talking about her placings whether first or last. Who brags about that? Her nonchalant revelations about this barn are very disturbing, but "bragging"? Don't see that at all.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
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    Jan. 27, 2003
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    CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by foursocks View Post
    The bragging about it part is really the cherry on top, though- again, she is an adult and obviously believes she did nothing wrong.
    If she thought she did nothing wrong, her blog would still be up. She knows it was wrong. She just didn't realize anyone outside of those who think the same way she does (that it is okay to compete on drugs) was reading her blog.

    Quote Originally Posted by tuckawayfarm View Post
    Where we seem to differ is who deserves the most blame for the problem, clueless newbies coming into the sport or the unethical trainers who prey on them. While neither is blameless, I think the professionals are very influential in what their clients believe is acceptable.

    <snip>

    Her nonchalant revelations about this barn are very disturbing, but "bragging"?
    You are absolving her of too much of the blame. Clueless newbie? She has her first horse. Unless she's taken a very different path into horse ownership than most of us, she's been riding for a few years. That might be a newbie in the grand scheme of some of us, but it's not like she fell off the turnip truck yesterday.

    The "bragging" comments are coming up because there is almost a pride in the comments about what the barn calls drugging. It's flippant...they do it, they have a nickname for it, there is no shame (until others find out). I wouldn't call that nonchalant in the least.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottagrey View Post
    There is drugging and there is drugging and I don't believe it should be that black and white. I have a friend at a barn she's an older woman who enjoys going to the occasional small local show. She's game but slightly timid, she has 85% of the time a saint of a horse, is her trainer going to make sure when they go to a show (we're talking maybe 3-4 times a year) her horse will be 100% saint.. You betcha. On these occasions the trainer might give the horse some feed-thru calm and cool or paste. I also wouldn't get to worked up over some teen's blog about showing.. we don't know what kind of "drug" her horse might have gotten and it could have been a paste of calmer vs. Ace. I'm not sure why people today feel the need to share every little detail about their lives on social media - but in some ways I'm glad they do..
    That form of drugging is illegal.

    Trainer, or whoever is the author of that "you betcha" conviction that they will use whatever means to make sure the client's horse is "100% Saint" at a show for a timid rider who "enjoys" shows are in the wrong.

    The part that bugs me is that you are so sure that the desires and needs of the client trump all else.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    12 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugBug View Post
    If she thought she did nothing wrong, her blog would still be up. She knows it was wrong. She just didn't realize anyone outside of those who think the same way she does (that it is okay to compete on drugs) was reading her blog.
    IIRC, the blogger called/texted the trainer asking for the cocktail. She knows this is a euphemism for drugging and writes as such in her blog.

    I think she knew she was drugging a horse and either didn't know it was wrong or thought it wasn't *that* wrong. Or the blogger is truly stupid, not knowing that a blog is, by definition, a public document.

    Pick one; none are good.

    The blogger's "rebuttal" is just as self-centered. She seems pissy that she has "offended" her readers. I surmise that she means her critics. The person she offended (or should have) is the pro trainer who knows better than to cheat this way.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
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    Aug. 12, 2010
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    Westford, Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    The part that bugs me is that you are so sure that the desires and needs of the client trump all else.
    Or, putting the desires of the client over the needs of the client. Client might desire to go to a show, but they aren't really prepared to do so. What the client needs is to log more hours of hard work at home, some honesty from their trainer and maybe a different horse. I understand that it's hard, because some clients will shop trainers until they get what they "want", rather than what they "need"...I guess in the end, the trainer has to decide what kind of business they want to run. But cheating is not OK, in any event.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #94
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    Jan. 27, 2003
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    CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canaqua View Post
    Or, putting the desires of the client over the needs of the client. Client might desire to go to a show, but they aren't really prepared to do so. What the client needs is to log more hours of hard work at home, some honesty from their trainer and maybe a different horse.
    OR...they need to understand that they are going to have to pay to have someone who can ride the horse through it's nervousness at shows until it has enough exposure under their belt.

    The fact of the matter is, plenty of horses are perfect at home and very rideable but when taken off property, they lose their nut a bit. Instead of resorting to drugging to make a horse rideable for the owner, they need to resort to a better rider how can work the horse through its nervousness...and do it for as many shows as necessary until the horse figures out that going away from home is No.Big.Deal.

    And THEN, they need to KEEP taking the horse away from home.

    So many people don't realize this part of the equation when it comes to showing. Most horses need to go, go, go to become broke, broke, broke away from home.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    Co
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckawayfarm View Post
    I don't think she intentionally outed herself and, like findeight, I consider her a kid. She never mentions her name or her barn and only uses first names when writing about her barnmates.

    I am often surprised by what young people choose to share online. The blog was about "a girl and her first horse" and she was obviously a very novice rider who adored a horse that seemed to be way too green for a beginner.

    Her attitude about showing and drugs certainly didn't come from years of experience, but was probably learned from those she looked up to. It would be nice if all "trainers" taught their clients to respect the rules and could competently train both horse and rider. I'm sure everyone in her area is now aware of who she is and hopefully she has learned from having her mistakes discussed on the BB.

    If anyone needs to be avoided, I'd say it's the ones who sold her an inappropriate horse and then taught her that drugs are a training method. I would rather put my efforts into trying to educate their hapless clients instead of publicly humiliating them.

    The whole situation just makes me sad.
    Thanks for explaining. I didn't read the blog.

    Well then, she unintentionally outed herself AND her trainer. Ruh Roh..


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #96
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    Mar. 24, 2004
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    Pottstown, PA (East Coventry)
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckawayfarm View Post
    I don't think anyone here thinks drugging for competition is OK. Where we seem to differ is who deserves the most blame for the problem, clueless newbies coming into the sport or the unethical trainers who prey on them. While neither is blameless, I think the professionals are very influential in what their clients believe is acceptable.
    Even if she is a clueless newbie to horse showing she needs to be living under a rock in her real life. It is constantly on the news about doping is sports being wrong, illegal ect... Congressional hearings on drugs in baseball, should there be astrics after certain players names for MLB hall of fame, a certain multiple time winner of Tour de France being stripped of his wins, roid rage.

    How can she have not heard about this and maybe gotten some kind of clue that doping, drugging etc... is not good in any sport? Not knowing the rules and laws is never a good excuse anyway.

    She is showing as an adult not as a 12 year old. I would give all kinds of leeway to a junior rider especially a younger one.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)


    3 members found this post helpful.

  17. #97
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canaqua View Post
    Or, putting the desires of the client over the needs of the client. Client might desire to go to a show, but they aren't really prepared to do so.
    That's a good distinction.

    Look, I'm as selfish and greedy as the next guy. I want what I want. So the question is: Who are you willing to hurt in order to get that and how much?

    I think cheaters ought to confront this question. It's not just about each of us alone.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  18. #98

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    I'm familiar with trainer and association. I'm surprised and disappointed in the former.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #99
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    Aug. 12, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Stupid Alter View Post
    I'm familiar with trainer and association. I'm surprised and disappointed in the former.
    Do you think there is a chance that the, quite immature, blogger threw the account of texting for a "cocktail" in for dramatic effect? To seem "cool" to her friends? That would really stink, as the trainer's reputation is now potentially damaged by that blog post.



  20. #100
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    It seems to me that the blogger didn't realize that it was a big deal, and that people would be able to identify her and her trainer.


    2 members found this post helpful.

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