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  1. #61
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    I agree that it was the right thing to do, OP. It is your horse, so your decision. Just because teenager now realizes she made a mistake does not mean that you should just go back on your word about not sending the horse. That is how teenagers learn they can manipulate and control.
    Now at least she knows you are serious and will maybe think more about the consequences in the future.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/NBChoice http://nbchoice.blogspot.com/
    The New Banner's Choice- 1994 ASB Mare
    Dennis The Menace Too- 1999 ASB Gelding
    Dreamacres Sublime- 2008 ASB Gelding


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  2. #62
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    double post
    http://www.youtube.com/user/NBChoice http://nbchoice.blogspot.com/
    The New Banner's Choice- 1994 ASB Mare
    Dennis The Menace Too- 1999 ASB Gelding
    Dreamacres Sublime- 2008 ASB Gelding



  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by honeychile View Post
    I was a youth whose mom went back and forth between feeling like she is rewarding me with horses, to threatening to take horses away.

    In the end, I am glad I had the horse and my mom did not punish me the way you are punishing your niece. While I did attend the parties, have my grades slip in school, experiment with different intoxicants, in the end I could always go to the horses and feel grounded. I don't know where I would be without the horses in my life that helped me get through my teenagehood, and my mom realized this and took the harm reduction approach rather than the tough love approach.

    While I understand you are angry/upset, and it is your horse, are you mad because she messed up (a very typical teenage behaviour), or because you feel some personal slight has been taken against you due to her lying. By the sounds of it, it looks like the latter. In the end it is your horse and your decision, but I don't think it is the appropriate way to go about this.

    Also, I am a youth probation officer as well, and have experience with teenagers who mess up. Look up motivational interviewing, find a way to connect to your niece in order to foster positive behavioural change that is also important to her.

    Good luck.
    But what so many don't seem to get is SHE STILL HAS HORSE ACTIVITIES, people!
    She gets lessons, which means barn time, which means a wholesome activity to "ground" her, good (I'm assuming) horse people and an instructor to encourage her, etc.

    LBM isn'tsaying "one party, you'll never see a horse up close again, child!"
    She is saying, "I'm willing to go above and beyond and spend time and $$ so you can have your own horse to use if you follow the rules which are XYZ."
    SHe then said, "I have heard you are going to do something stupid (throw a party), if you follow through with that, the consequences of your action will be XX (no horse to use)."
    LBM has repeatedly said that it is not a permanent thing; that niece can work her way back into the horse coming to her.

    I can't believe that people think that, after LBM laid out the actions expected and the consequences that would occur if she did not "toe the line re: party" that she should just cave in and send the horse anyway; how does that teach a kid that actions have consequences.


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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    But what so many don't seem to get is SHE STILL HAS HORSE ACTIVITIES, people!
    She gets lessons, which means barn time, which means a wholesome activity to "ground" her, good (I'm assuming) horse people and an instructor to encourage her, etc.
    If this is true, that is not how I read the original post. I read it as "if I send my horse to the niece, maybe she'll choose the better path." That is why I felt that taking away the "carrot" before she even has a chance to decide to choose that better path would be a mistake.

    If the kid is already getting riding lessons and has the opportunity to be around horses, etc., then sure, I agree that getting her very own horse is extra nice and she shouldn't take it for granted.

    I am also glad to hear that she will have a chance to earn back the chance to have the horse.



  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post

    I can't believe that people think that, after LBM laid out the actions expected and the consequences that would occur if she did not "toe the line re: party" that she should just cave in and send the horse anyway; how does that teach a kid that actions have consequences.
    That's not what I am saying.
    I don't know all the intricacies of the relationship, but if the kid is struggling *perhaps* taking the horse away was not a good threat.
    I got the impression that the OP didn't have the time to really think what she should/could do, and horse was the easy punishment to throw out there, right or wrong. Maybe I have that wrong.
    Only OP can know for sure on all the thoughts.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/



  6. #66
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    Yes Angela, you do have it all wrong.

    She has been taking regular lessons for years, normally half leases a horse year round.

    For the love of God, I am not taking horses away from her. I am just not giving her MY horse, as was the plan, under the agreement that she keep her grades up and stay out of trouble.

    She did not stay out of trouble. For pete's sake, the COPS showed up.

    She will continue to take lessons, I have no control over that and dont want to. I offered my horse to keep her busy @ the barn instead of looking for trouble after school/on weekends, as having her own horse would do so (as opposed to a half lease when she can only use the horse 2x or 3x a week).

    It was an extension of kindness to the child. She knew what she was doing! She had an agreement with me and her grandmother! She broke that agreement.
    mykidshavefourlegs.blogspot.com


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  7. #67
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    It would be one thing if LBM had cancelled sending the horse AFTER the incident. The girl KNEW what would happen. LBM has repeatedly said her parents don't discipline the girl and she is now learning the art of manipulation. This is not the first discipline issue with the girl (caught smoking pot before).

    LBM... good on you! Perhaps if more parents (or those in the influence of being a parent) would spell out consequences for actions and then follow through with the consequences, we'd have more ... not sure what the right word is here... outward respect? Less ego? Less entitlement thinking? Hope you understand what I'm saying. Good Job!!
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    That's not what I am saying.
    I don't know all the intricacies of the relationship, but if the kid is struggling *perhaps* taking the horse away was not a good threat.
    I got the impression that the OP didn't have the time to really think what she should/could do, and horse was the easy punishment to throw out there, right or wrong. Maybe I have that wrong.
    Only OP can know for sure on all the thoughts.
    But she did have the time before to speak with her and warn her of the consequences of her intended actions (go ahead with party=/= horse of your own at the barn like you were hoping for).
    At that point, to reverse or modify the consequence would teach the niece .... what?


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  9. #69
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    hehehehe.
    Sounds like fun.

    The first time I was caught with friends we asked the cops if they would like a screwdriver...

    I wouldn't be upset with the party. That's part of being a kid.
    But I would be upset with the lie.

    bad things are fun

    but lie to aunty= no horse

    we must take a step back and ask ourselves what is really wrong with the scenario?
    Is it the underage drinking?
    or the lying?

    I ran with what my mother would have considered the "bad crowd".
    But in all honesty? they were the good crowd. The non judgmental, do what you want and don't lie about it crowd. Ya they looked weird. Ya know...all freaky and "oh my goth" weird but it was just a way to express feelings.

    All those yuppy kids that my parents liked so much? They brought pot brownies to school and had parties all the time. They just lied about it. AND they were bullies.

    I remember one of my friends...she was getting close to turning 21. I asked her if she was excited to finally be able to drink legally..
    her answer:
    "ya...cause I'm really tired of having to run and jump the back yard fences at parties when the cops come."
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!


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  10. #70
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    When I was little I was supposed to clean my room for allowance and once I just shoved everything under my bed. My mom looked and took my fav toy and made me put it in the garbage in the garage and it was gone. That stuck with me until now and I never didn't clean my room when she asked. Something so small can teach such a big lesson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trakehner View Post
    I was in Florida visiting my "Step-grandkids" (my wife's grandkids)...I bought them each a game-boy (this was 10 years ago). I told them, "if you don't snark, fight or tattle while we're visiting, you can have the game-boys....if you are weenies, they come back to me".

    So, not one day later, the boy is being a tattling jerk. I ask for the gameboy and, CRUNCH!, no more gameboy. His eyes got wide, his sister said nothing and they were both great for the rest of the visit. Behaviours have consequences.

    Yep, I could have given the game to charity...but that wouldn't have had the same effect and I was concerned with them, not somebody else's kid.

    Good for the OP's backbone!


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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    But she did have the time before to speak with her and warn her of the consequences of her intended actions (go ahead with party=/= horse of your own at the barn like you were hoping for).
    At that point, to reverse or modify the consequence would teach the niece .... what?
    Agreed re;reversing decision.

    My point is what do you have to take away this week if she has a party, when all the adults close enough to actually watch said kid don't?

    You've taken away the horse as punishment, which is good considering that it was the warning.
    However, you've also, in doing so, stopped her path to 'right choices, alternate thing to do' in taking him away.

    Yes I read she is taking lessons. That doesn't seem to be getting her on the right path though does it?
    In order for you to hold something over her head, she has to first have something she actually cares about. That is all I am saying.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/



  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargzng386 View Post
    When I was little I was supposed to clean my room for allowance and once I just shoved everything under my bed. My mom looked and took my fav toy and made me put it in the garbage in the garage and it was gone. That stuck with me until now and I never didn't clean my room when she asked. Something so small can teach such a big lesson.
    When I used to work as a youth and family counsellor, I would reward the kids that I worked with to a trip to McD's or equivalent (their choice not mine). But I always warned them that their behaviour in public was just as important as when we worked privately. I would let them know that if their behaviour didn't warrant being in the establishment we would just get up and leave. Those, usually the younger children whose parents would let them get away with anything rather than deal with them, always came to a quick conclusion that I followed through when I would pick up the tray, toss the food in the garbage and say "Let's go." Only had to do that once and surprisingly they would listen to my direction.


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  13. #73
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    Is it me or is it sad that those NOT directly responsible for the child (aka NOT the parents) are the ones who have to follow through. That otherwise the child thinks discipline consequences are merely a bluff.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike


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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by honeychile View Post
    While I understand you are angry/upset, and it is your horse, are you mad because she messed up (a very typical teenage behaviour), or because you feel some personal slight has been taken against you due to her lying. By the sounds of it, it looks like the latter. In the end it is your horse and your decision, but I don't think it is the appropriate way to go about this.
    .
    Wow. So now it's somehow LBM who is not behaving appropriately?

    Yes, LBM probably is angry. I think that's perfectly understandable after she went to the time and expense of getting the horse ready to send to the niece, only to have the niece go back on her promise and do something that was not only illegal and dangerous but also the very thing the niece had been told in advance would result in her not getting the horse..

    Why should the child not be allowed to understand that actions have consequences? Better now than later, when the consequences may be far more serious and long-lasting.


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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Agreed re;reversing decision.

    My point is what do you have to take away this week if she has a party, when all the adults close enough to actually watch said kid don't?

    You've taken away the horse as punishment, which is good considering that it was the warning.
    However, you've also, in doing so, stopped her path to 'right choices, alternate thing to do' in taking him away.

    Yes I read she is taking lessons. That doesn't seem to be getting her on the right path though does it?
    In order for you to hold something over her head, she has to first have something she actually cares about. That is all I am saying.
    I dont see it that way. The horse wasnt taken away as punishment. The horse was being given as a reward to responsible behavior. The kid chose not to do the right thing; Thus no reward. Very simple.

    OP, congratulations on holding your ground. Most people wouldnt do that nowadays. And we wonder why kids feel so entitled.

    Edited to say this is no different from training horses. Would you rather punish bad behavior or reward good behavior? If the girl was punished, she would have been grounded, or spanked, or forced to eat Ramen noodles for a month. That is punishment. Withholding something that you truly wish to have is not punishment. When your pony finally does what you want him to do, he gets a carrot or a peppermint. If he doesnt do what you want, do you hit him with a whip or yank him around with his bridle? Very different training methods with punishment vs. reward. Not that Im comparing this girl to a pony; the pony is probably smarter!
    Last edited by halo; Apr. 22, 2013 at 07:12 PM.


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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by honeychile View Post

    While I understand you are angry/upset, and it is your horse, are you mad because she messed up (a very typical teenage behaviour), or because you feel some personal slight has been taken against you due to her lying. By the sounds of it, it looks like the latter. In the end it is your horse and your decision, but I don't think it is the appropriate way to go about this.
    So the teenager, who was warned that this would happen, should be automatically forgiven because it was "typical teenage behavior"?


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  17. #77
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    Nice to see someone sticking to the consequences! Good on you!!!
    Too bad she did not choose the horse over the partying.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


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  18. #78
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    LBM, good for you - stick to your guns!


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  19. #79
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    I am going to come down on LMB's side on this one, just because she made it crystal clear what would happen if the girl chose to party. Follow-through is SO important. (Same thing goes for horses, too. My mare learned very quickly that if she started pawing when I got her cookies out, I'd walk away from her. And turn back toward her, but if she pawed again, turn away. Yes, she did get the cookies... but only when she stopped pawing. Took two sessions for that to be pretty well cemented in her pony brain. I suspect a teen could learn the same way.)
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine


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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockonxox View Post
    I'm a juvenile probation officer... not my biological kids but I have some craaazzzy stories that come out of this job. I only get to work with the "bad" ones, but I like to see them as "misguided". Welcome to teenagerhood. My mom got super lucky, I didn't drink/go to parties/smoke or anything in high school, I was always at the barn or doing some other kind of sport. Not to say I wasn't tempted but I was too scared to disappoint my mom.
    Your mom didn't get lucky, she raised you right. I got MASSIVE consequences for acting out young (10 and under), so by the time I was a teenager, my parents knew they could trust me not to do stupid things like drink, party, screw around. For starters the horse would have been history. No "friends" were worth risking THAT. So, I wanted to stay at a community theater cast party until a friend's mother picked us up at 1am when I was 14? Sure, no problem. They knew I would not be coming home drunk or worse. And of course I didn't.


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