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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2010
    Posts
    74

    Default Possible to tell if a horse has stifle or SI issues from video?

    Just curious if a vet would be able to identify what type of issues are going on, stifle, SI, neuro, etc. from a video or if it would be helpful to show them? My slow maturing 6 year old warmblood mare has had some mysterious hind end weakness that we cannot seem to figure out. Acupuncturist/chiro has been out on numerous occasions, she is very "loose" and flexible, she cannot find anything else musculature-wise. She did have some SI problems that we figured out/treated (most likely due to some sort of pasture/turnout incident) but she is still "weak" with her hind end, particularly the left side. Her left rear hoof/sole is also slightly misshapen as she is using her body a different way on that side to compensate. I have had the vet out on numerous occasions and we have not done xrays yet (next step) but she has been sound, flexed fine, no abnormal blood work, etc. I am having the vet out for another full exam this week but was wondering if anything like the below would be beneficial at all in diagnosing the problem as it seems to show differently from ride to ride? She is reactive near her pelvis/SI area but the vet/chiro who looked at her is contributing this to her hind gut ulcers, of which I am currently trying to treat. Do you think recording/sending videos to my vet is beneficial or of no help at all? All I want is for her to be comfortable and sound
    Last edited by bojolove; Apr. 24, 2013 at 01:32 AM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 3, 2003
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,176

    Default

    Problems with the SI or the stifle can manifest in many different ways so it would be really hard to tell from just a video. I would think you really need a vet to do a thorough exam and use more diagnostic equipment to really get an answer. Even if you identify the SI area as "sore" you don't know whether it's inflammation of a facet, arthritic changes, or ligament damage. To determine what is wrong within an SI you probably need a bone scan (which identifies the area of "interest") and then do some more targeted ultrasound. Your vets probably need to use some more serious diagnostic equipment (or refer you to a facility that does have that capability) before they can really figure this out. For a stifle--they might be able to do some xrays and ultrasound--it's not quite as deep and inaccessible as the SI, but it's still something that you want a good lameness vet to handle. The vet that I use for regular maintenance is excellent, but she says that the stifle is a very complicated joint and she refers her clients to other specialists when dealing with the stifle. Good luck--these types of injuries can be super tricky to figure out.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    16,885

    Default

    Sending a video to the vet sure won't hurt, but it might not help, either. Best to get the horse to the vet for a hands on, especially if you're considering neuro problems as a cause. It sounds like you might need to step it up to the next level and hit a large referral hospital and see someone who is excellent at diagnostics. If you post where you are, people might have recommendations. (I can help you out if you're in CO )

    FWIW, several lay people correctly identified right stifle lameness in this horse from the video. The vet confirmed when she saw her. The vet never saw the video, though, or even heard about the guesses from the peanut gallery.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rNqtnPCkrk



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2010
    Posts
    74

    Default

    Thank you for your suggestions and well wishes! Fortunately, I am in an area with a lot of great vets. The next step is definitely ultrasound and probably xrays (neck/spine). I just thought I would post the video in case a fellow COTH'er might see something I am missing



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2007
    Location
    Triangle Area, NC
    Posts
    6,714

    Default

    Right SI
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2010
    Posts
    74

    Default

    Thanks! That is an interesting video to watch actually! We pretty much ruled out neuro and are having them out this week to do another evaluation and determing next steps. Thanks again!
    Quote Originally Posted by Simkie View Post
    Sending a video to the vet sure won't hurt, but it might not help, either. Best to get the horse to the vet for a hands on, especially if you're considering neuro problems as a cause. It sounds like you might need to step it up to the next level and hit a large referral hospital and see someone who is excellent at diagnostics. If you post where you are, people might have recommendations. (I can help you out if you're in CO )

    FWIW, several lay people correctly identified right stifle lameness in this horse from the video. The vet confirmed when she saw her. The vet never saw the video, though, or even heard about the guesses from the peanut gallery.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rNqtnPCkrk



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2010
    Posts
    74

    Default

    Thanks! So you think it still looks like some SI issues?
    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    Right SI



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,821

    Default

    It sounds as if there is a lot going on with your horse with nothing conclusive -
    did you scope before/after each ulcer treatment?
    how were hind gut ulcers diagnosed? how are they being treated? (FWIW I've also read that legumes (including alfalfa) are not recommended when dealing with hind gut ulcers, though I don't recall the paper).
    Have you read this article - it seems a nice summary.
    Is horse kept in a herd on pasture or individual turnouts with free choice hay?

    Have you had more than one equine body worker? sometimes differing approaches can be effective.

    You can run all the diagnostics (including bone scans & MRI), do various injections & still have an undetermined lameness/unsoundness.

    You mentioned that horse is in dressage training, is your trainer doing specific exercises/lunge work to assist the horse?

    Has your vet observed all the behaviour you mention?



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 27, 2003
    Posts
    1,900

    Default

    Her left rear hoof is also slightly misshapen as she must be using her body a different way on that side to compensate....the hoof itself looks normal and is being trimmed proper, I am referring to the bottom of the hoof itself.
    Does it look like there is more hoof/sole on one side of the frog than the other? Kinda like the sole of the hoof has shifted to one side?

    Sometimes this is a sign of a medial-lateral imbalance of the hoof. Which can cause problems further up (eg. SI) or it can be a symptom of something going on further up.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2010
    Posts
    548

    Default

    As you said "slow matureing" It is possible he needs a rest for awhile. I would hesitate to lounge in circles in soft footing until I knew exactly what was going on, especially in a fine young horse you posted in the video. Good Luck.
    Charlie Piccione
    Natural Performance Hoof Care



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2010
    Posts
    74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Piccione View Post
    As you said "slow matureing" It is possible he needs a rest for awhile. I would hesitate to lounge in circles in soft footing until I knew exactly what was going on, especially in a fine young horse you posted in the video. Good Luck.
    Thanks for the advice. The problem is that she doesn't run around her paddock and she is a horse that needs to get her bucks out and play so we longe her once a week and she runs around and bucks, under control, and we utilize the entire ring when longing. If we do not longe, she would be doing it under saddle and that would not be fun....she gets some air! We have tried to get around this and only do it every 2 weeks but she doesnt get enough play time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karosel View Post
    Does it look like there is more hoof/sole on one side of the frog than the other? Kinda like the sole of the hoof has shifted to one side?

    Sometimes this is a sign of a medial-lateral imbalance of the hoof. Which can cause problems further up (eg. SI) or it can be a symptom of something going on further up.
    Exactly. I am working with an excellent shoer and was with a different shoer at my last barn so its definitely related to something further up.

    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    It sounds as if there is a lot going on with your horse with nothing conclusive -
    did you scope before/after each ulcer treatment?
    how were hind gut ulcers diagnosed? how are they being treated? (FWIW I've also read that legumes (including alfalfa) are not recommended when dealing with hind gut ulcers, though I don't recall the paper).
    Have you read this article - it seems a nice summary.
    Is horse kept in a herd on pasture or individual turnouts with free choice hay?

    Have you had more than one equine body worker? sometimes differing approaches can be effective.

    You can run all the diagnostics (including bone scans & MRI), do various injections & still have an undetermined lameness/unsoundness.

    You mentioned that horse is in dressage training, is your trainer doing specific exercises/lunge work to assist the horse?

    Has your vet observed all the behaviour you mention?
    Thank you! I have worked with a few different body workers and they all relatively seem to be on the same page. We don't have any hills near us, otherwise we would be doing more hillwork, but we backup up inclines and I have asked her to do more cavaletti work just to try and strengthen the hind end. She is in a paddock by herself all day, does not get free choice hay but is pretty much eating all day with maybe an hour or two where she isn't. Free choice hay is not an option unfortunately. Interesting on the legumes and hind gut ulcers! I will check out the article and look into tha a bit further. Thank you all so much for your input and advice!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2003
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    916

    Default

    It wouldn't hurt to have a lyme test done. I've heard of horses having difficult-to-diagnose hind end lameness that ended up being lyme disease. And it can definitely manifest as something that appears to be SI or hip-related. It's about $25 bucks for the SNAP test (which would need an add'l test if positive to confirm lyme) but it's a cheap way to eliminate that as a possibility before you do more expensive testing.



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