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  1. #61
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    Godwin's Law: A term that originated on Usenet, Godwin's Law states that as an online argument grows longer and more heated, it becomes increasingly likely that somebody will bring up Adolf Hitler or the Nazis. When such an event occurs, the person guilty of invoking Godwin's Law has effectively forfeited the argument.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Godwin's Law: A term that originated on Usenet, Godwin's Law states that as an online argument grows longer and more heated, it becomes increasingly likely that somebody will bring up Adolf Hitler or the Nazis. When such an event occurs, the person guilty of invoking Godwin's Law has effectively forfeited the argument.
    A "law" that is obviously a "new wives tale".


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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post

    Pick your battles.
    I agree with this, Lady Eboshi. That's why I am not freaking out, writing letters to the editor of horse mags, starting a FB page, creating a petition, or actually doing anything else except post the OP here on COTH.

    I saw it posted in a disparaging vein on a horsey FB page, and just simply thought, lemme put this on COTH (even though I knew that some people would inevitably want to get personal rather than debate the topic - but if I let that stop me, I would never post anywhere )

    In the grand scheme of all-things-PETA, this is comparitively small potatoes. But I stand by my opinion that their feed guidelines can be harmful, especially to the types of new horse owners which would be attracted to PETA for info in the first place. It also "educates" other readers who will no doubt use the "information" to criticize, harass, and even possibly report local horseowners who aren't doing things the PETA way.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  4. #64
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    Mar. 23, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by californianinkansas View Post
    Cleaning out the 45-gallon water tank Every. Single. Day?
    I just can't even... there are no words. *headdesk*
    I am not positive, but are you responding to my post? I agree that PETA's suggestion of daily cleaning is insane. I am at the barn every day, so I can clean their tank when needed, which is every 5-6 days in the summer (since it is in the sun and they drop food into it, which mucks it up even faster). It can go a couple of weeks in the winter if they are not too messy and a bunch of birds don't crap in it



  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Grey_hunter View Post
    I cannot stand PETA for more reasons than it's possible to list. But this is a pretty decent 'basic horse care' guideline. It's just that... a guideline. It tells a novice horse person what basic care needs to be given for a horse. If they accounted for every 'individual' need of a horse, it would be 50 pages long and STILL incomplete. Some of the things are a bit OCD, but nothing harmful or blatantly incorrect.

    I'm all for bashing PETA for what they are doing wrong, but picking apart a short guide to horse care JUST because it's from PETA is just petty.
    I think the issue is that do-folders take a guideline like this and use it as evidence that anything less is abuse. Like the anti-carriage types do with their harping on some stall size guideline. This type of guide isn't just useless, it's attempting to create a standard that most of us probably don't - and shouldn't - adhere to. And then using it against us in their "advocacy" efforts.

    That's why we should be publicly denouncing this guideline. Not bickering amongst ourselves. Horse owners, unite!
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns



    9 members found this post helpful.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Realistically, folks? How many horse owners are going to use PETA as a primary source for horsekeeping advice? About as many as consult Greenpeace on how to clean their fish tank, I'd bet. Nothing they say is really that off the wall; and if it DID prevent even one or two of those Craigslist-from-hell ads for racks of bones it might be worth it.

    I'm no apologist for the more radical leanings of any of these "animal" groups, but I don't think everything they do is devoid of merit, either. At least they're advocating feeding enough hay, which is something beaucoup people in my own county could stand to learn and their vets or feed dealers don't seem to be teaching them.

    Pick your battles.
    Actual horse owners aren't the ones pointing to this type of guideline as proof that anything less is abuse. Do you want thousands of ignorant, non-horse people forming their views about whether we're all taking adequate care of our horses based on this guideline? And screaming to their elected officials that we shouldn't own horses because we aren't complying with this guideline?

    Because that is what made NYC carriage horses the front page issue in the NY Times coverage of the NYC mayoral election. This isn't speculation. It is happening.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns



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  7. #67
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    Oct. 14, 2007
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    I don't have a problem with the discussion of the PETA equine guidelines.... Or anything PETA puts out there.

    Not only can discussion of even heated topics bring some clarity to an issue but furthermore; if PETA wants to publicly claim to be an expert in animal keeping, there is nothing wrong with challenging their offered guidance.
    Train like you have never won and show like you have never lost!!!


    7 members found this post helpful.

  8. #68
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    Aug. 28, 2012
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    Kansas
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Thank you. I can link to my favorite website...Let Me Google That For You.

    ****Not trying to be mean, for some reason I really find the whole idea of let me google that for you very funny.
    You're right. *blushes* I know better, having worked at a call center for a phone company (worst job ever). In my defense, I babysat my 2-year-old and my 9-month-old godsons today; they plumb wore me out. I don't see how people with children survive.


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  9. #69
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    Aug. 28, 2012
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    Kansas
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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    I am not positive, but are you responding to my post? I agree that PETA's suggestion of daily cleaning is insane. I am at the barn every day, so I can clean their tank when needed, which is every 5-6 days in the summer (since it is in the sun and they drop food into it, which mucks it up even faster). It can go a couple of weeks in the winter if they are not too messy and a bunch of birds don't crap in it
    Nope not responding to your post at all. When I boarded, I checked on my horse a minimum of once at day, every day. I (happily) don't have children. I clean my horses' water tank as often as you do. I used to be a groom. Then I was in the Army (OCD = heavily reinforced as the positive value of "attention to detail"). I pick hooves every day. I openly admit to being OCD when it comes to my horses. I just can't imagine dumping all that water out and refilling every single day, that's all.


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  10. #70
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    This whole thread makes me roll my eyes. It's a general horse care article, the same info is available on a thousand other websites out there. Who the hell really cares if PETA is the one posting it? I sure don't. I don't see anywhere in there where it says horses shouldn't be ridden or they should get any sort of ridiculous treatment because they are spechsul creatures.

    Even the bad guys can do some things right.


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  11. #71
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    Oct. 26, 2010
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    If I refilled all my tanks every single day (let me refresh memories, I have three tanks and the smallest is 140 gallons, the others are bigger), I'd live in a swamp in the driest part of Orygun. The last ranch I lived on, had tanks of about 1000 gallons. That adds up, yanno. They wouldn't get filled before they'd have to be dumped again. *Yes, I'm being silly.*

    But, as for Peta's 'suggestions', you know good and well that there are going to be uptight new horse owners who are suseptible (sp?? Can't make it look right) to TV trainers and blowhards who will take this more to heart than you or I. It's not likely they are going to be on a site such as Coth to get the real skinny on horsekeeping.
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneriding24 View Post
    If I refilled all my tanks every single day (let me refresh memories, I have three tanks and the smallest is 140 gallons, the others are bigger), I'd live in a swamp in the driest part of Orygun. The last ranch I lived on, had tanks of about 1000 gallons. That adds up, yanno. They wouldn't get filled before they'd have to be dumped again. *Yes, I'm being silly.*

    But, as for Peta's 'suggestions', you know good and well that there are going to be uptight new horse owners who are suseptible (sp?? Can't make it look right) to TV trainers and blowhards who will take this more to heart than you or I. It's not likely they are going to be on a site such as Coth to get the real skinny on horsekeeping.
    I guess if someone is stupid enough to base the entirety of their horse care on one page of a website, then I guess that beats the alternative. Otherwise they would be feeding bread and grass clippings, leaving the horse stalled 24/7 and riding hard on Sat/sun and offering water once a day. And I don't think anyone is stupid enough to try to clean 50 gal+ water troughs daily. They probably mention that, hoping that people will at least clean them before they are 90% algae and muck. And I would love to see the response of any knowledgeable horseperson to a newbie telling them they need to dump and clean a 100 gal trough daily! They'd get quite the education right there!

    We had a Cother that rescued a gray horse that survived on Bread, and was stalled 24/7 with no exercise. Maybe that owner would have benefited from this webpage. I can't remember the horse's name...Artie, or something like that...I think he recently passed away.


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  13. #73
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    Oct. 28, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    I guess if someone is stupid enough to base the entirety of their horse care on one page of a website, then I guess that beats the alternative.
    That's right. That page is on par with most basic guides to horse care. They all shoot for the ideal, and hopefully the actual care given falls somewhere in the ballpark. If they start going into the specifics, imagine how long it would get. You want people to actually read it!

    Think about the English riding/horse care books (other people read those obsessively as children .... right??), and the fussiness of stable rubbers and once-a-day strapping. Few people actually do that, but hey, it would be nice (if we had the time/groom-power/whatever).

    Aside from that, did anyone else note the comment by "zepher"?:
    lol I've owned horses my whole life. I never pick out my horse's' hooves unless their gait shows me something's wrong.
    Yikes!


    6 members found this post helpful.

  14. #74
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    Oct. 14, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAcres View Post
    This whole thread makes me roll my eyes. It's a general horse care article, the same info is available on a thousand other websites out there. Who the hell really cares if PETA is the one posting it? I sure don't. I don't see anywhere in there where it says horses shouldn't be ridden or they should get any sort of ridiculous treatment because they are spechsul creatures.

    Even the bad guys can do some things right.
    I get what you are saying; Many people know of PETA and may just give it more credibility because of their years of marketing strategy. Regardless that they throw things at people to get their notoriety. LOL
    Train like you have never won and show like you have never lost!!!


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  15. #75
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    Nov. 12, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneriding24 View Post
    I was going to post some snarky comment but really, don't want to be on their radar.
    If you do leave a response just make sure you un-check this box at the end!

    Sign me up for PETA Living E-News and special announcements from PETA.


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  16. #76
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    Feb. 6, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by californianinkansas View Post
    You're right. *blushes* I know better, having worked at a call center for a phone company (worst job ever). In my defense, I babysat my 2-year-old and my 9-month-old godsons today; they plumb wore me out. I don't see how people with children survive.
    Well I am delighted you asked, californianinarkansas, because I now know of that utterly fabulous site LauraKY posted! That's the best thing I've seen all day!
    And after a day with a 2 yr old and a 9 mo old, I'm not sure how you were even still awake and typing.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #77
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    Feb. 6, 2013
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    I'd have zippo issues with PETA's list if they had called it "Basic Guidelines -- consult knowledgable local sources for info specific to your situation and location".

    But they didn't. They called it "10 COMMANDMENTS" of horse care. Like they are the Holy Word handed down from the Horse Care Gods. This is not by accident.

    PETA is very active in trying to abolish human ownership and use of animals. All animals. Everything they do must be viewed in THAT light. Not whatever light any individual prefers to view it in. It's about *their* agenda. Not yours. Not ours. THEIRS. How many situations can you think of where these commandments are not obeyed? Keep your eyes peeled. You will, at some point, see these PETA points used to argue against those situations.


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  18. #78
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    I actually do most of the things on that list. I have to keep water troughs in the shade or the water gets very warm down here in Hades, erm, central NC.


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  19. #79
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    May. 23, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    I'd have zippo issues with PETA's list if they had called it "Basic Guidelines -- consult knowledgable local sources for info specific to your situation and location".

    But they didn't. They called it "10 COMMANDMENTS" of horse care. Like they are the Holy Word handed down from the Horse Care Gods. This is not by accident.
    Except they didn't call it "10 Commandments". The called it "Caring for Horses."

    PETA sucks shit through Hefty bags on practically every level. However, the galaxy probably wouldn't implode if more people kept cleaner water troughs. If it were me, I wouldn't be going around the internet announcing that I only clean'em once a month, like it was a point of pride or something.
    Dreadful Acres: the chronicle of my extraordinary unsuitability to country life


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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAcres View Post
    This whole thread makes me roll my eyes. It's a general horse care article, the same info is available on a thousand other websites out there. Who the hell really cares if PETA is the one posting it? I sure don't. I don't see anywhere in there where it says horses shouldn't be ridden or they should get any sort of ridiculous treatment because they are spechsul creatures.

    Even the bad guys can do some things right.
    Maybe we are using different browsers, but when I click on the link it says right at the top that among other purposes, animals are not ours to use for entertainment. That means riding, driving, and every other equine use including pasture ornament.

    They believe animals are "better dead than fed". In Virginia, they immediately kill 95% of the animals they take into their care, healthy or not. Yet they still have people thinking, "Call PETA," when an animal is in trouble precisely because their PR is designed to make people think they are the good guys, at least some of the time.

    THAT'S why this isn't another fluffy Horse 101 piece. It's designed to set PETA up as a benevolent authority in horse care, make it appear that they give a crap about animals' lives, and bring supporters to their deadly cause. It's not the equivalent of a poorly researched Horses For Dummies. It's the equivalent of the manufacturer of Blue Juice (Fatal Plus), the most widely used euthanasia drug for small animals, putting out a happy little piece on dog and cat care; even if it's right, it's wrong.

    (I was going to use the analogy of Michael Vick writing a book on caring for pit bulls, but in this context I thought that might be risking prosecution under Godwin's Law.)
    Last edited by Karyn; Apr. 22, 2013 at 10:27 AM. Reason: One More Thing


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