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  1. #21
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    Jan. 10, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by IFG View Post
    You are in Southern Ca, right? How much turnout is he getting?
    Daily for about 30 minutes for the week I've had him. I get the sense that his owner was working him once or twice a week at best. She's a third year vet student, so you can imagine her schedule. That's why she leased him.



  2. #22
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    Jan. 10, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
    I thought ulcers as well. Also....significant feed changes and turn out changes can really unsettle green horses. Hell...it unsettles some of my not so green horses.
    Do you think he could have developed ulcers in the week I've had him???

    Regarding feed changes, he is quite thin. He was being boarded in a very low income situation (unsafe IMO, but that's why there's 31 flavors I suppose) and was only fed two small alfalfa flakes a day. Now, he is being fed two generous alfalfa flakes per day plus Timothy for lunch and I'm giving him Safe Choice plus supps. Oooo, as I write that, that might be it! Maybe he's just being overloaded with (the appropriate amount of) food! Maybe he was so mellow at home because he was hungry and lethargic and now he's feeling his proverbial oats. Hmmmm....I love COTH.


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  3. #23
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    Jan. 10, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simkie View Post
    Otherwise, it's lots of repetition, consistent and FAIR handling. If a horse like this feels you're being unfair, all is lost.
    I get the sense that he's very happy. He runs to the end of his stall when I drive up and waits for me. He nuzzles me everywhere (which we are stopping...although it's cute, it's not respectful of my human bubble) and is responsive to discipline. However, I think he just doesn't know what's expected of him. He acts like he wants to please, but isn't sure how. He strikes me as not only green but mentally immature. I feel like I'm dealing with a baby, which is okay, just unexpected since he was so mature under saddle when I tried him.



  4. #24
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    Jan. 10, 2013
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    256

    Default When you're just leasing, what do you do about tack fit???

    So, I haven't officially tried my saddles on him, but I can just feel it in my gut...they're not gonna fit. They are both medium-wide and, at least right now as underweight and undermuscled as he is, he's no medium-wide. He may never be, being half TB. I am not going to spend thousands of dollars replacing my beloved saddles for a horse I may or may not keep in the long run. But, of course, I want him to be safe and comfortable. Any ideas?



  5. #25
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    Feb. 13, 2005
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    Columbus, OH
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    Look, it could be anything. It sounds like he's eating a lot of very rich food, he's getting almost no turnout, and he's a baby. I would still suspect pain as part of the equation since this nonsense started on the trailer ride over, not after he started eating like a king and getting minimal turnout. And yes, a horse can easily develop ulcers with one massively traumatic experience (like a bad trip from a commercial shipper.)

    That said, there's no reason to go blowing cash on ulcer treatments until you've addressed these other more obvious factors like handling, food, turnout, etc. If he's still being a pig in a week or so, you can figure out your next move then. Which might be to just send him back, it might be go to a cheap diagnostic for ulcers (like Tums before a ride or a few days of ranitidine/sucralfate 3x daily), or whatever.

    All of this is assuming the owner didn't flat-out lie to you about the horse being unflappable and trailering well. Not to point out the obvious, but the horse's name is Sriracha. I would have had a lot of questions for the owner about why they named an allegedly unflappable horse after a super spicy condiment.
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  6. #26
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    Jan. 10, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by jn4jenny View Post
    Not to point out the obvious, but the horse's name is Sriracha. I would have had a lot of questions for the owner about why they named an allegedly unflappable horse after a super spicy condiment.
    Hahaha, should have been my first clue. When I'm not staggering around sick, I'll try riding him every day for a week and see where we end up. I'm thinking he is just eating like a kinf and needs mental and physical work to counteract the mental stimulation of a new situation. I'll report back.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Mar. 6, 2002
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    Oregon
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    Quote Originally Posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
    Hahaha, should have been my first clue. When I'm not staggering around sick, I'll try riding him every day for a week and see where we end up. I'm thinking he is just eating like a kinf and needs mental and physical work to counteract the mental stimulation of a new situation. I'll report back.
    Stupid question that maybe you've addressed and I missed it, but have you talked to the owner about how he is acting? I'd think a quick call to say hey, your horse is acting like a total spook monster that is afraid of his own shadow, is this normal for him in a new place? Might be a good place to start. She might have some ideas or insight about how long it might take to settle - or at least express total surprise that he's acting like a fool. And will then be aware of the situation if you decide to send him back.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Oct. 7, 2010
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    I heard rather than saw them coming down the road. He was kicking like a mad man and came off the rig drenched and sweat, whites of his eyes rolling. The owner had told me that he trailers well...um, apparently not.
    She kind of made it seem as if he had show miles, but the real story is that he was supposed to go to a show and had a meltdown on the way there.
    I think you have a horse that REALLY needs to learn how to be trailered. If you ever want to go to a show, or ever need to take the horse to the vet clinic, you really need to start now.

    It's easy to (under)feed a horse into submission. My OTTB was just that way.
    But it does sound like a bit of appropriate firmness on your part is bringing out the gentleman in him, so that is encouraging.

    I would, however, be VERY wary with the trailer thing. It can be hard to find a ride for your horse if you don't have your own trailer, and REALLY hard if your horse has a reputation for kicking the tar out of trailers.



  9. #29
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    Mar. 30, 2013
    Location
    Kansas
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    111

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    Quote Originally Posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
    Plus...Trakkenhers are a bit...different..
    HAHAHA This is so funny... Every Trak I've known has been quirky, to say the least.

    OP... I'd just have to say good thing it's a monthly lease and you're not roped in for longer term. I would let the owner know how he's doing, and if he's not settled more by the end of the month, take him home!



  10. #30
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    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
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    He's only getting 30 minutes of turnout? Get him out for at least 8-12 hours and see what you have.

    And IIRC, Safe Choice is actually pretty high in NSC? Or is that old data?

    An yes, absolutely, he could have developed ulcers in a week.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Apr. 10, 2006
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    7,384

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    Quote Originally Posted by jn4jenny View Post
    Look, it could be anything. It sounds like he's eating a lot of very rich food, he's getting almost no turnout, and he's a baby. I would still suspect pain as part of the equation since this nonsense started on the trailer ride over, not after he started eating like a king and getting minimal turnout. And yes, a horse can easily develop ulcers with one massively traumatic experience (like a bad trip from a commercial shipper.)

    That said, there's no reason to go blowing cash on ulcer treatments until you've addressed these other more obvious factors like handling, food, turnout, etc. If he's still being a pig in a week or so, you can figure out your next move then. Which might be to just send him back, it might be go to a cheap diagnostic for ulcers (like Tums before a ride or a few days of ranitidine/sucralfate 3x daily), or whatever.

    All of this is assuming the owner didn't flat-out lie to you about the horse being unflappable and trailering well. Not to point out the obvious, but the horse's name is Sriracha. I would have had a lot of questions for the owner about why they named an allegedly unflappable horse after a super spicy condiment.
    Bingo!

    And honestly, more turnout! Less grain... get him on a low sugar diet....!
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2007
    Posts
    1,899

    Default Baby brain

    I don't think you have unusual, you may just have an active young horse who has not had discipline or real training. It is not uncommon to have "training" for management basics that only goes as long as there is argument and as soon as the young horse stops arguing the hander assumes that means they are trained. Real training is not a passive activity. Really being trained, like training to tie, is not...he is good if I am standing here. Many many people do not "train" past a gentlemans agreement. You end up with many many holes in the training. Horses who don't tie...that is likely the basic problem with the hauling...because they have never had their training finished but just assumed. He has never been taught that you still behave and stand quietly even if you are bored or impatient...people assume he will behave but never really stretch training beyond initial concepts. I think you will enjoy the work and it is likely what you will encounter with many young horses you will come to in the future in one way or another. You seem thought full and stubborn enough to make this fellow better for have known you. In your brain...start from scratch...be happily surprised if he already has a concept down and is ready to move to the next issue. Don't skip basics...test them all so that the next time he gets in a trailer he is mentally better prepared. I agree use a chain without guilt he will be safer with clear rules. Have fun. PatO



  13. #33
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    Jan. 6, 2008
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    Area II, the Blue Ridge Mountains
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    Quote Originally Posted by Event4Life View Post
    You're right, he should have settled in within the week, easily IMO. When we take a horse to show there's usually no "settling in", just get on and ride, so it should be the same when they move barns too. Granted he's getting used to a new routine/new people/situation, but again, it shouldn't be as big of a deal as it sounds. I would worry about drugging too.

    I think you should get in touch with his owners, or ask your trainer to do so, and try to get the real story before you put a lot of time/money/effort into addressing anything. This is supposed to be fun, and if you are not going to have any on this horse it may be better to move on quickly without devoting a lot of resources to it. There is something to be said for a horse who can teach you, of course, but you also shouldn't be totally miserable in the process.

    Just food for thought.
    ^^^ Agree.



  14. #34
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    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
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    11,450

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    Now that I understand that you are doing a free lease with an option to buy I have a slightly different opinion!

    I would take into consideration any training or handling issues you run into from this point forward and use those to adjust the price you are willing to offer. Is this horse worth $5500 with his issues as present? In a month after you've put all that work into him, is he worth MORE because you trained him, or LESS because you HAD to train him? Is the owner going to take back their nicely trained horse and sell him for the asking price or higher?

    I find it unusual that he's a free lease for an option to buy at such a high price. If he were worth that price then he'd be for sale period or you'd be paying to lease him.


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  15. #35
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    Jun. 3, 2010
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    179

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    I hope he works out for you!



  16. #36
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    Aug. 15, 2003
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    340

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    Quote Originally Posted by blame_the_champagne View Post
    Do you think he could have developed ulcers in the week I've had him???

    Regarding feed changes, he is quite thin. He was being boarded in a very low income situation (unsafe IMO, but that's why there's 31 flavors I suppose) and was only fed two small alfalfa flakes a day. Now, he is being fed two generous alfalfa flakes per day plus Timothy for lunch and I'm giving him Safe Choice plus supps. Oooo, as I write that, that might be it! Maybe he's just being overloaded with (the appropriate amount of) food! Maybe he was so mellow at home because he was hungry and lethargic and now he's feeling his proverbial oats. Hmmmm....I love COTH.
    The fastest ulcers can develop is about 48 hours.

    My last OTTB came off the track VERY underweight, and was super lethargic, barely jog-shuffled along. As soon as he got some better food and put on weight, he was like a different horse--a firecracker with lots of go!



  17. #37
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    Jun. 24, 2006
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    More turnout, less grain. Can you leave him soaked hay cubes etc in a bucket to munch all day? Beet pulp with his meals and less hard core concentrate.

    BTW... 2 flakes of hay A DAY? I am having a hard time imagining such a large horse on so little not having ulcers. Time for blue pop rocks!

    Sadly it probably is less turnout and more grain, so try and fix it but I bet he will be hotter than you anticipated. Not like you can go back to a program of not feeding him enough.



  18. #38
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    Jan. 19, 2005
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    PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicteetango View Post
    BTW... 2 flakes of hay A DAY? I am having a hard time imagining such a large horse on so little not having ulcers. Time for blue pop rocks!

    no kiding. My horses out on good grass for 8 hours a day get closer to 1/2 bale of hay a day. Basically as much as I can get them to eat. The youngsters and skinny ones also get alfafa. Maybe they are 2 flakes of the really large bales of hay???? Otherwise...I would be doing a bucket of soaked hay cubes...get his forage up substantially.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  19. #39
    Join Date
    May. 8, 2007
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    down south
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    The 2 flakes of alfalfa a day and 30 min of turnout is a California thing. Mind-boggling to those of us on that started eventing on the east coast I realize. It is pretty typical out there to feed low-roughage high-protein diets which makes dealing with any hot horse a nightmare (not to mention the resulting colic, soft tissue injuries, etc etc.... can you tell I was glad to move back to TN?)

    To the OP, best bet is going to be getting him lots of turnout (and not in a round pen- somewhere he can run around). This means something like 8+ hours a day. He also needs lots of low protein roughage - "cheaper" hay like a mixed grass, fescue or even timothy would be much better and I'd stop the alfalfa all together. Look for something he can much on all day. However, good luck finding those in Southern CA.....

    Bottom line is this might not be a horse that can tolerate the fancy-facility lifestyle. I had 2 of those myself!



  20. #40
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    Jul. 25, 2003
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    Boston Area
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    I know on your other thread that you've been contemplating taking a break from horses. I think that your facility will limit the horses you can have if you want to ride now. I know there are many horses that can do fine with limited turn out but adding that dimension to your requirements, especially if you are looking at OTT or young horses, will make it all that much harder. None of my horses would have stayed sane for that. At the very least mine have gotten 5-6 hours/day of turnout.

    I understand there's not much you can do about it because that's what barns in California seem to be like, but it is probably adding to your frustration.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
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