The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 20 of 32 FirstFirst ... 10181920212230 ... LastLast
Results 381 to 400 of 633
  1. #381
    Join Date
    Apr. 15, 2003
    Location
    Northeast MA
    Posts
    4,049

    Default

    I listened a bit to the Boston NPR station discuss the Miranda application, and Carmen Ortiz (Boston AG) also addressed it last night.

    My understanding is that there is a federal exception for Miranda if there is a question of public safety. In this case, the most compelling questions would seem to be: "Are there more explosive devices and if so where?", and "Are there any other people involved in this?".

    And this WILL be a federal case, IMHO.
    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #382
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2012
    Posts
    1,819

    Default

    Forgive me if I am restating something already said, but I think LE needs to do some serious soul-searching.

    The FBI had investigated the older brother in 2011 for extremist ties. Why did none of the Feds recognize him, or have his name on a watch list?

    How did the younger brother escape, on foot, and injured, after the shoot out, with so many LEOs right behind him? What could they have done differently?

    Lastly, the house where the suspect was holed up in the boat was outside the perimeter, which is why he was never found. It was only after they assumed that an injured man whose name and face were all over the news had somehow escaped the area that the homeowner noticed the blood, etc.

    Same thing happened here with Christopher Dorner.

    So besides the social media aspects, I think this whole affair will be a textbook case of law enforcement practices, what to do (put the their pictures out there and ask for the public's help) and what not to do (cost the city a day's activity, and then endanger the public by making false assumptions.)
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #383
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2005
    Location
    Where it is perpetually winter
    Posts
    5,145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    I was a little older than you are when the Columbine shootings occurred, and I don't recall having any "sympathy" or feelings for the shooters, or their families. But now, older and with kids of my own, I think OMG - what happened to you that was so bad that this was your choice? How do the parents/family/friends live with this guilt and shame? What didn't they see?

    I think you are misunderstanding what people are trying to say. Obviously, we don't know enough about these men yet to really know anything. But something, somewhere happened that made this young man think this was a reasonable thing to do. What could it have been??
    That makes sense and I bet you're right that I misunderstood. Thanks for the explanation!

    Edited to add this: I saw this on Facebook and agreed with it.

    "I don't want to know his name. I don't want to see his face. I don't want to know his life's history, his back-story, who his family is, where he went to school, or what he liked to do in his spare time. I don't want to know what "cause", if any, he was fighting for. I don't want to know why he did it, or may have done it, or what possessed him to carry out his actions. I don't want to know. Because that's what he really wants. I'll be damned if I'm going to give him what he wants.

    Put him on trial, but don't cover it. Tell me when you decide to jail him for three lifetimes - because that number matters. That's the number of lives he has to now pay for. That's all I want to know about him. Nothing else.

    Instead, tell me about the first responders who ran towards the fray, within seconds, fearless. Tell me about the ones wearing the yellow volunteer jacket, or the neon police vest, or even the ones in the regular everyday t-shirt who became a helper. Tell me the story about the first responder who held gauze over a wound until they made it to the hospital. Tell me the story about the volunteer who held the hand of the injured spectator until they got into the ambulance. In six months, tell me the story of those who lost a limb, who beat the odds, pulled through countless surgeries, and are learning to walk again. Tell me the story about the love, the compassion, and the never-ending support of thousands, millions, of people who support the victims here. Tell me their stories. Tell me everything you can, because they are the ones that matter. Tell me of the good that they have done, are doing, and will continue to do, regardless of... No, not regardless of, in spite of. In spite of that someone who would do them harm. Because that's what freedom in this country means. It means coming together in the hardest of times, even in the face of unfathomable adversity, to make life better for all those around us.

    Tell me the good stories. That's all I want to hear. Please like and share!"
    Last edited by supershorty628; Apr. 20, 2013 at 11:37 AM.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  4. #384
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2000
    Location
    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
    Posts
    18,654

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot View Post
    For some reason can't edit- grayed out (??)

    wanted to say- punishment also serves as general deterrent to others but does not work too well with religious zealots as they often don't mind dying for the cause -

    but we don\t know the reason behind this and may never know it. It could be anything from a wish for personal fame to misquided religious fervor.
    In fact, this young man is going to be a hero to many other people all over the world, even if he was misled by his brother or only seeking to make history. Especially if he dies. Then he'll be a martyr and an even greater hero to be emulated. The focus on his Muslimhood will guarantee that.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  5. #385
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2006
    Posts
    1,830

    Default

    What I found rather funny about the Miranda rights question is that the kid had been lying outside all day slowly exsanguinating with half of Boston willing to help speed up the process if given the chance. I'm sure the first priority was simply keeping him alive through the night. Kind of hard to question a dead suspect.



  6. #386
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2011
    Posts
    1,668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Forgive me if I am restating something already said, but I think LE needs to do some serious soul-searching.

    The FBI had investigated the older brother in 2011 for extremist ties. Why did none of the Feds recognize him, or have his name on a watch list?
    How did the younger brother escape, on foot, and injured, after the shoot out, with so many LEOs right behind him? What could they have done differently?

    Lastly, the house where the suspect was holed up in the boat was outside the perimeter, which is why he was never found. It was only after they assumed that an injured man whose name and face were all over the news had somehow escaped the area that the homeowner noticed the blood, etc.

    Same thing happened here with Christopher Dorner.

    So besides the social media aspects, I think this whole affair will be a textbook case of law enforcement practices, what to do (put the their pictures out there and ask for the public's help) and what not to do (cost the city a day's activity, and then endanger the public by making false assumptions.)

    BB - Questin for you.

    When the FBI investigated this guy in 2011 and found out aome disturbing information and possible connections to al-qaeda. They were infomed by a foreign official that the older brother had traveled to Chechnya in 2012 to train with subversives.. The brothers posted on their FB pages that they were muslim, and i believe one of them had a youtube channel with radical islam videos.

    So, after ALL THIS EVEIDENCE they did not do anything... This is a pretty left leaning board, so do you all agree that we need to change our attitudes towards these radical types. That we need to stop being PC and we need to start protecting AMERICANS rights, and deport guys like this that have all these warning signs. Even if they dont technically do anything illegal?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #387
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2008
    Location
    The Beach, Maryland
    Posts
    1,229

    Default

    Random thought:

    I was talking to my grandparents about this whole thing this morning. All they could focus on was "who paid for them to come over" & "who paid their way while they were living here?" i.e. were taxpayers supporting them.

    They are very right-wing, and I am neither far left or far right. I sit my ass in the middle and watch the fire fights with my mouth shut.

    Is it really that big of a deal who paid their way while they were here? They were, for the most part, upstanding citizens with jobs, and careers/high level educations. I think that's a lot more than most of the people born here 'legally' can say for themselves these days, so I guess I don't understand the point if we as taxpayers fostered them or not.

    Did this cross anyone else's mind and if so, why does it matter?
    Friend of bar.ka!
    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    GM quote of the day, regarding the correct way to do things:
    "There's correct, and then there's correct. If you're almost correct, that means you're wrong."


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #388
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2012
    Posts
    1,819

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    BB - Questin for you.

    When the FBI investigated this guy in 2011 and found out aome disturbing information and possible connections to al-qaeda. They were infomed by a foreign official that the older brother had traveled to Chechnya in 2012 to train with subversives.. The brothers posted on their FB pages that they were muslim, and i believe one of them had a youtube channel with radical islam videos.

    So, after ALL THIS EVEIDENCE they did not do anything... This is a pretty left leaning board, so do you all agree that we need to change our attitudes towards these radical types. That we need to stop being PC and we need to start protecting AMERICANS rights, and deport guys like this that have all these warning signs. Even if they dont technically do anything illegal?
    Hard to distinguish your "questin," but if you are asking if the US should arrest and deport people for being religious, the answer is no. Is it a deportable offense to visit radical websites? No. Should the FBI have had a handle sooner on who he was, based on information they already had? Yes. Think how nutty their mother sounded when she claimed the FBI monitored their every keystroke, but it was likely true.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #389
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2009
    Location
    Near the cupcake shop
    Posts
    2,196

    Default

    Watching the pregame from Fenway


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #390
    Join Date
    Apr. 15, 2003
    Location
    Northeast MA
    Posts
    4,049

    Default

    Supershorty, I thought I was done tearing up, but that Facebook posting you shared made me do so all over again.

    Amen to it.
    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.



  11. #391
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2011
    Posts
    1,668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Hard to distinguish your "questin," but if you are asking if the US should arrest and deport people for being religious, the answer is no. Is it a deportable offense to visit radical websites? No. Should the FBI have had a handle sooner on who he was, based on information they already had? Yes. Think how nutty their mother sounded when she claimed the FBI monitored their every keystroke, but it was likely true.
    What do you mean by had a handle sooner? They knew all about thier links to radical islam. The FBI had these guys investigated for years. They were inforned by a foreign official that the older brother was training with al-qaeda. They did have a handle,,, but the next step would have been to put these juys in prison, or to deport them..



  12. #392
    Join Date
    Dec. 22, 2000
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    14,979

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AliCat View Post
    Watching the pregame from Fenway
    That sounds like a great thing. And I'm not even a Red Sox fan.



  13. #393
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    6,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RxCate View Post
    Random thought:

    I was talking to my grandparents about this whole thing this morning. All they could focus on was "who paid for them to come over" & "who paid their way while they were living here?" i.e. were taxpayers supporting them.

    They are very right-wing, and I am neither far left or far right. I sit my ass in the middle and watch the fire fights with my mouth shut.

    Is it really that big of a deal who paid their way while they were here? They were, for the most part, upstanding citizens with jobs, and careers/high level educations. I think that's a lot more than most of the people born here 'legally' can say for themselves these days, so I guess I don't understand the point if we as taxpayers fostered them or not.

    Did this cross anyone else's mind and if so, why does it matter?
    I'll take the thought one step further, instead of bombing the Boston Marathon, lets say brother #2 is muslim, and becomes an MD as he was supposedly studying to be, and saved lives? Does that make it ok to support him with taxpayers money even if he is muslim?

    Hindsight is always 20/20. Easy now to say we should have not supported them [ if we did, I have seen nothing to point to that yet] and should have deported them for being radical religious nuts.

    If we do start deporting people for being religious zealots who do nothing illegal, can the members of that Florida church [Westboro Baptist, I think they call themselves] be first? Please and thank you.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #394
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2009
    Location
    Near the cupcake shop
    Posts
    2,196

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    That sounds like a great thing. And I'm not even a Red Sox fan.
    I enjoyed David Ortiz's speech, sorry if people are offended by vulgarity. I thought it was stellar that he returned today.

    Designated hitter David Ortiz, better known to fans as “Big Papi,” took the mic for a short but effective speech to the crowd. “This jersey that we wear today, it doesn’t say Red Sox, it says Boston,” Ortiz began. “We want to thank you, Mayor Menino, Governor Patrick, the whole police department for the great job they did this past week.”

    “This is our fucking city!” Ortiz exclaimed, drawing wild applause from the stands. “And nobody going to dictate our freedom. Stay strong,” he concluded, lifting a fist in the air and the cheers went up in the crowd and he walked off the field to begin the game.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #395
    Join Date
    Dec. 22, 2000
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    14,979

    Default

    And here's a NY Times article regarding the issue of Miranda rights.

    http://nyti.ms/YBKTKf



  16. #396
    Join Date
    Dec. 22, 2000
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    14,979

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AliCat View Post
    I enjoyed David Ortiz's speech, sorry if people are offended by vulgarity. I thought it was stellar that he returned today.
    David Ortiz- the anti-Jeter.

    Love the remark about his jersey, though. Thanks for sharing.



  17. #397
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2002
    Location
    Calera, AL
    Posts
    1,901

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Forgive me if I am restating something already said, but I think LE needs to do some serious soul-searching.

    The FBI had investigated the older brother in 2011 for extremist ties. Why did none of the Feds recognize him, or have his name on a watch list?

    How did the younger brother escape, on foot, and injured, after the shoot out, with so many LEOs right behind him? What could they have done differently?

    Lastly, the house where the suspect was holed up in the boat was outside the perimeter, which is why he was never found. It was only after they assumed that an injured man whose name and face were all over the news had somehow escaped the area that the homeowner noticed the blood, etc.

    Same thing happened here with Christopher Dorner.

    So besides the social media aspects, I think this whole affair will be a textbook case of law enforcement practices, what to do (put the their pictures out there and ask for the public's help) and what not to do (cost the city a day's activity, and then endanger the public by making false assumptions.)
    NBC reported the house was 1 1/2 blocks outside of the perimeter, so not initially searched.
    "Dogs are man's best friend. Cats are man's adorable little serial killer." -- theoatmeal.com



  18. #398
    Join Date
    Dec. 22, 2000
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    14,979

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alabama View Post
    NBC reported the house was 1 1/2 blocks outside of the perimeter, so not initially searched.
    It would make you wonder how they determined the perimeter. It also reminds me of the line from the movie The Fugitive when Tommy Lee Jones' character was talking about a search after the train wreck. Luckily, the guy in Boston did not turn out to be as resourceful as Harrison Ford.


    Deputy Marshal Samuel Gerard: Alright, listen up, people. Our fugitive has been on the run for ninety minutes. Average foot speed over uneven ground barring injuries is 4 miles-per-hour. That gives us a radius of six miles. What I want from each and every one of you is a hard-target search of every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse and doghouse in that area. Checkpoints go up at fifteen miles. Your fugitive's name is Dr. Richard Kimble. Go get him.



  19. #399
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    6,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alabama View Post
    NBC reported the house was 1 1/2 blocks outside of the perimeter, so not initially searched.
    It does make you wonder though, with this guy injured and bleeding, didn't search dogs pick up his scent and lead them outside of that perimeter... or am I misunderstanding how much he was bleeding, what type of sniffing the dogs brought in do, or something else?
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/



  20. #400
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
    Location
    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
    Posts
    11,233

    Default

    They likely brought in bomb sniffing dogs and they mentioned K9 units but didn't show any on the news reports.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!



Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 25
    Last Post: Apr. 19, 2013, 02:42 AM
  2. Replies: 29
    Last Post: Apr. 17, 2013, 11:04 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: Aug. 15, 2012, 07:29 AM
  4. $140,000 Horse found dead after flight
    By spotnnotfarm in forum Off Course
    Replies: 117
    Last Post: Jul. 19, 2011, 12:06 PM
  5. Michael Baze found dead
    By keepthelegend in forum Racing
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: Jun. 4, 2011, 05:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •