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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by alittlegray View Post
    The only person/s I feel sorry for is the older brother's wife and baby girl. I doubt she knew he was planning this. If she did, my sympathy for her evaporates but that little girl will always carry the shame of what her father did. Any time she has to use her very unusual (in America) last name, someone will say "hey, aren't you the daughter of that guy who bombed the race in Boston??" Poor kid.
    This.

    My sympathy for people who deliberately set out to take the lives of others is non-existent. There *may* be some unique individual circumstances where I might feel a bit of sympathy, but they are few and far between; I reserve my sympathies for the victims, and peripherally--for the family members (if innocent) as mentioned above.

    Let's hope he gets the justice he deserves...
    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")



  2. #342
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    Mar. 25, 2012
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    Just chimming in here now..I live right outside of Boston and today has been a fulfilling day for sure. My boyfriend is an officer as well as in the national guard, having him be in the mix of this has really put me on edge and I'm glad a big part of this is out of the way.

    Driving to work this morning, you could feel the eerie vibe in the air. It was very unsettling. It's very hard to imagine that this is so close to home, down the street practically. Just when hope seemed to be lost, that lead was the best feeling an although its only the beginning, atleast we have one now. This kid was so close that my family members hung out with him and people I went to school with, dormed next to him. It's been unreal watching this all unfold.

    It gave me chills however watching a community come together and law enforcement show why they do what they do. These guys have put in uncomfortable hours these last few days and it takes someone not only physically but mentally strong to do what they have. Here's to Boston


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  3. #343
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    Nov. 20, 2010
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    Upstate New York
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    I thought from when they first posted their photos that they appeared relatively young. Then when the uncle called the older one a loser, I thought he was the leader, and primarily responsible for most of it.

    But when a girl who knew the younger one from high school mentioned that he had written something on FB recently (and then removed it) - "why are women teachers allowed to teach them?", I knew he had already been thinking along the same lines - same as the radical Islamic teachings. And I didn't have the same pity for him.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #344
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    Nov. 20, 2010
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    Upstate New York
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    The police work was amazing in this crisis. And loving the displays of public enthusiasm!
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #345
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    NY
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    Seen on Twitter today:

    Boston is probably the only major city that if you **** with them, they will shut down the whole city... stop everything... and find you.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  6. #346
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVPeg View Post
    The police work was amazing in this crisis. And loving the displays of public enthusiasm!
    Has this been posted yet? The entire crowd at the Bruins game on Wednesday sang the National Anthem.

    http://video.bruins.nhl.com/videocen...ed-share-video


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #347
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    Feb. 15, 2004
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    Ontario
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    And a big thanks has to go to Jeff Hoffman who was the first to describe the two from his hospital bed!!! Wow...


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #348
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    Aug. 14, 2000
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    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    *sigh*

    The reason for not reading him his Miranda rights is that until they do, he CANNOT PLEAD THE FIFTH AMENDMENT.

    Civics, people, it's your bitch.
    Are you sure? He can demand a lawyer without receiving a Miranda warning. He can refuse to talk. His fifth amendment protections aren't limited by cop behavior, are they? But they can and will continue to question and pressure him, and it won't affect the admissibility of any admissions, if he admits anything. The Miranda warnings are to control police behavior, not suspect behavior. I wonder if they'll consider waterboarding. The more I read, the odder the capture gets. Cops are saying that he shot at them in several gunfights, yet the homeowner was able to climb a ladder, open the tarp, see a bloody person, close the tarp, climb back down, and bloody person doesn't fire at him.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  9. #349
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    Cops are saying that he shot at them in several gunfights, yet the homeowner was able to climb a ladder, open the tarp, see a bloody person, close the tarp, climb back down, and bloody person doesn't fire at him.
    Eh. I can imagine if he had been hiding there for hours, he may have passed out from fatigue, or blood loss, or both. Luckily for the homeowner.

    He and his brother also didn't kill the carjack victim, so maybe he was hesitant to hurt a civilian face to face. Hard to say, really. Maybe he will explain his decisions. Or not.



  10. #350
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    Mar. 24, 2012
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    He and his brother also didn't kill the carjack victim, so maybe he was hesitant to hurt a civilian face to face.
    more likely saving ammo for law enforcement / to prevent capture


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  11. #351
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    Feb. 3, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    *sigh*

    The reason for not reading him his Miranda rights is that until they do, he CANNOT PLEAD THE FIFTH AMENDMENT.

    Civics, people, it's your bitch.
    I must be missing something.

    People were pleading the fifth long before the Miranda decision.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


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  12. #352
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    UH, without getting into the whole legalese mess, and having had the issue come up in hundreds of trials, including when I've had to advice people of their Fifth Amendment rights when I interviewed them myself, well:

    1. The Constitution's 5th Amendment guarantees the right against self-incrimination. This was one of the Bill of Rights passed by Congress to protect the states who were worried about giving up too many rights to form the union.

    2. Escobedo was the precursor to Miranda.

    3. When cops place someone in custody, they should advise the suspect immediately of his Miranda rights. (And please not reading them from a card as fast as they can, they should be read slowly and the defendant should be asked if he understood each right as it was read to him.) In fact, when people become suspects, even before their arrest in an interview, cops should advice them of their Miranda rights. (Believe me, this issues comes up in most trials. And can cause big problems with confessions and admissions. Some cops say advising the suspect of his rights has a chilling effect on his speaking. Well not advising him can keep a confession or admission out of evidence.)

    So the defendant has a 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination and should be advised of it and of his rights under Miranda immediately upon arrest. And on video later. (Nothing like having a defendant say he was threatened, and then pulling out the videotape where he's smiling and bragging about killing someone. And with no blood or bruises on defendant.)

    So the cops in this case should have advised him of his rights as soon as they laid hands on him. To prevent any issues arising later that could damage the prosecution of this multiple killer. Of course the case against him is very good, but there's always that one juror who can hang a case.

    ETA But even if a confession is thrown out by a court, it's not the end. If the defendant takes the stand, he can be impeached by a confession that did not conform to Miranda. BTDT. The old case is Harris v. New York.


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  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janet View Post
    I must be missing something.

    People were pleading the fifth long before the Miranda decision.
    You're not missing anything. She's wrong.


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  14. #354
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    I reserve my sympathies for the victims, and peripherally--for the family members (if innocent) as mentioned above.
    I've been torn about posting this all evening/morning, trying to understand my feelings. I'm not sure it is sympathy, but my heart is torn out for this young man. I don't have a limited amount of sympathy that I have to be careful with lest I spend it in the wrong place.

    Yes, the innocent victims - my heart is more torn out for them.

    But I wonder about this boy. All night when they were looking for him all I could think of was how easy it is for youth to be caught up in things. How young men of that age do things without thinking. How, as a pot smoker, he likely was not an Islamic militant (they tend to be against that sort of thing), and the fact that he mentioned women teachers most likely was reflecting something in our culture that I've seen many young men lament. How pot can cloud brain function, and cause even poorer decisionmaking ( I've seen it.)

    What did his brother tell him? Did he even know or understand what was going to happen?

    I don't know - I can't reconcile it and it is bothering me. Perhaps it's because I have very recently seen the stupid things that young men of that age do and get drawn up in.

    I am interested to hear about his demeanor when and if he is conscious again. I am glad he was taken alive, so that we have a chance at understanding this. If he's the good kid that all of his friends say he is, then we will have answers.

    We can never truly have justice. Justice would be the return of Martin and the other victims. But adding more death and hatred and hoping for punishment and revenge makes us little better. Hate breeds hate. Anger breeds anger.

    That's a jumbled mess of thoughts, but I just can't jump on the bandwagon of hatred for this kid. Too much unresolved for me.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  15. #355
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    Feb. 8, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    We can never truly have justice. Justice would be the return of Martin and the other victims. But adding more death and hatred and hoping for punishment and revenge makes us little better. Hate breeds hate. Anger breeds anger.
    I think you are mixing up things. I also feel pity for the terrorist. I don't know why he did it, but I would like to believe there is some humanity in him. But that has nothing to do with justice and punishment. Punishment is not revenge. It has nothing to do with hatred or anger. And, believe me, victims know what justice is. You can never make them whole, but you can give them a sense of justice.


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  16. #356
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    Punishment is meant to form a correction - are you saying that most of the posters here are hoping for a rehabilitation of this kid?

    I was really speaking more of the calls for revenge and the anger that I see.

    Keep in mind - I'm not saying he should walk free etc etc, but I can't chime in with the "burn in hell" folks. I don't think that helps the victims at all.
    Last edited by OneGrayPony; Apr. 20, 2013 at 07:35 AM. Reason: Trying to clarify.


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  17. #357
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    Punishment is meant to form a correction
    and deterrent


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  18. #358
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    For some reason can't edit- grayed out (??)

    wanted to say- punishment also serves as general deterrent to others but does not work too well with religious zealots as they often don't mind dying for the cause -

    but we don\t know the reason behind this and may never know it. It could be anything from a wish for personal fame to misquided religious fervor.



  19. #359
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    Jul. 3, 2012
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    It wasn't clear to me how much the homeowner did. A reporter said that when *they* thought he might be in the boat, they had the helicopter hover over it with their heat imaging "radar" for lack of the correct term. That imaging saw a human form moving around.

    I'm not sure anyone actually peeked in to see him there.
    Ride like you mean it.



  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    It wasn't clear to me how much the homeowner did. A reporter said that when *they* thought he might be in the boat, they had the helicopter hover over it with their heat imaging "radar" for lack of the correct term. That imaging saw a human form moving around.

    I'm not sure anyone actually peeked in to see him there.
    Actually at press conference LE stated the homeowner went out to check boat, saw blood on it's side and a hole in the shrink wrap and then looked inside and saw a bloody mess of a person in there, went inside and called LE.
    Distinctly remember thinking WTF on that, cause DH and I both agreed if we saw blood on the side of our boat, no way in hell would we look in.
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/


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