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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    Where were your ancestors from, Noms?
    They all immigrated LEGALLY!!!!!!


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  2. #22
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    All I will say, English is not easy to learn when you are older, because it has very complicated phonetics and on top of that, doesn't match with the written word too well.

    Ever wonder why other european languages don't have spelling bees?
    Because in those, you pronounce every letter in every work, but with a very few exceptions, so it would not make any sense to expect someone to misspell words.
    In English, you pronounce word groups and there are more exceptions than rules.

    Coming here without any knowledge of English, dictionary on hand, it took me three months to catch on that the way I was reading the words didn't make any sense, I had to learn by rote how to pronounce every new word.
    I still have a very thick accent, which makes me hard to understand over the phone.

    I do agree that people coming here need to learn English, but don't expect all to become fluent, English is hard.


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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    They all immigrated LEGALLY!!!!!!
    I'm going to guess the Native Americans just might disagree with you.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I'm going to guess the Native Americans just might disagree with you.
    What do the NAs have to do with this topic. Fast forward to the 21st century.



  5. #25
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    This is a good article about the myths and facts behind immigration in the 21st century.

    http://http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-39-spring-2011/feature/10-myths-about-immigration

    I think the native Americans have a lot to say about our current insistence that illegal immigrants, most of whom are brown people who share a genetic heritage with the native Americans, should be expelled in favor of us white folk from the European continent.

    Again - the link above is worth a read. I'd love to hear your rebuttals.


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  6. #26
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    My father immigrated from Norway when there were reasonable requirements in place:
    He had to have a "sponsor family"; people who would agree to take him in and support him until he was able to do so on his own. He was not allowed to use public assistance in any way- can't pay his way? Then back he would have to go.

    No free healthcare, no free education (he had to pay for english classes to learn enough to be hired), no food stamps (the responsibility to make sure he was fed was solely on those who "signed up" to be liable for that), no free ride of any type.

    So why don't all of those who feel that illegals (who have already shown they are very willing to break the laws of this country) should have every right to stay sign up to sponsor them? YOU pay their schooling, their healthcare, their food requirements, etc. It was considered very fair before, why not now?

    ETA: the family that sponsored him did not know him, nor were they related in any way. They simply had relatives from the same region.


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  7. #27
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    Those requirements are not an issue for me, Moon. However, if you look at today's requirements, your grandfather would not have been able to get in.


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  8. #28
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    "The simple answer is that there is no “line” for most very poor people with few skills to stand in and gain permanent U.S. residency. Generally, gaining permission to live and work in the United States is limited to people who are (1) highly trained in a skill that is in short supply here, (2) escaping political persecution, or (3) joining close family already here."



  9. #29
    kathy s. is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    This is a good article about the myths and facts behind immigration in the 21st century.

    http://http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-39-spring-2011/feature/10-myths-about-immigration

    I think the native Americans have a lot to say about our current insistence that illegal immigrants, most of whom are brown people who share a genetic heritage with the native Americans, should be expelled in favor of us white folk from the European continent.

    Again - the link above is worth a read. I'd love to hear your rebuttals.

    Your argument is dated and irrelevant. You and I both know unless there is another war, the Mexican/US borders will remain in place. Additionally, illegal aliens, regardless of their origin, fully expect this administration to grant them amnesty.
    http://radio.woai.com/articles/woai-...-out-11180453/

    Sad as the plight of NA is, the fact is no amount of speculation, wishful thinking, etc will change that this country is what it is. The facts are the American blue collar middle class is bearing the brunt of these stupid policies politicians are attempting to put in place. These politicians twist their rhetoric to justify their blatant pandering for votes, and its the citizens of this country that ultimately pay.
    Come on down to Texas or Arizona or California and see what is going on. If you don't live near the border, you have no idea what your talking about.
    Last edited by kathy s.; Apr. 19, 2013 at 09:39 PM. Reason: spelling
    "How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people?" Julian Lennon


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  10. #30
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    No, but I do have a lot of relatives there.

    I'm not denying that it's an issue, what I am offering is that perhaps there's a different solution.

    Again "The simple answer is that there is no “line” for most very poor people with few skills to stand in and gain permanent U.S. residency. Generally, gaining permission to live and work in the United States is limited to people who are (1) highly trained in a skill that is in short supply here, (2) escaping political persecution, or (3) joining close family already here."

    So, if people can't get in legally, and conditions suck where they are...what is going to stem that flow? Making things illegal doesn't stop behaviors.



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    No, but I do have a lot of relatives there.

    I'm not denying that it's an issue, what I am offering is that perhaps there's a different solution.

    Again "The simple answer is that there is no “line” for most very poor people with few skills to stand in and gain permanent U.S. residency. Generally, gaining permission to live and work in the United States is limited to people who are (1) highly trained in a skill that is in short supply here, (2) escaping political persecution, or (3) joining close family already here."

    So, if people can't get in legally, and conditions suck where they are...what is going to stem that flow? Making things illegal doesn't stop behaviors.
    Why does the US have to support foreigh poor people with few skills... The USA is not the global welfare provider.


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  12. #32
    kathy s. is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    No, but I do have a lot of relatives there.

    I'm not denying that it's an issue, what I am offering is that perhaps there's a different solution.

    Again "The simple answer is that there is no “line” for most very poor people with few skills to stand in and gain permanent U.S. residency. Generally, gaining permission to live and work in the United States is limited to people who are (1) highly trained in a skill that is in short supply here, (2) escaping political persecution, or (3) joining close family already here."

    So, if people can't get in legally, and conditions suck where they are...what is going to stem that flow? Making things illegal doesn't stop behaviors.

    Running trains out of San Antonio to Laredo, Eagle Pass, and Del Rio and back, I had many encounters with illegals. Years ago, they were just coming over to work and send money home to support their families. Over the years the attitudes and reasons for crossing illegally has changed. I can't tell you how many told me they were coming here because they "could have their baby here for free" or "we will get free food and the American government will give us free stuff." As jetsmom pointed out, and I provided a source, Mexican children are brought over every day to get a "free" education at our expense. That is the reality in 2013. We can't afford low skilled people that drain our system dry.
    "How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people?" Julian Lennon


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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    This is a good article about the myths and facts behind immigration in the 21st century.

    http://http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-39-spring-2011/feature/10-myths-about-immigration

    I think the native Americans have a lot to say about our current insistence that illegal immigrants, most of whom are brown people who share a genetic heritage with the native Americans, should be expelled in favor of us white folk from the European continent.

    Again - the link above is worth a read. I'd love to hear your rebuttals.
    Dont feel bad for NAs, they are making a FORTUNE operating gambling casinos on tribal lands , They are the new millionares.


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  14. #34
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    Again - I have no issue with requirements to be here. I have no issue with closing some loopholes and making it less attractive to be here illegally.

    But there is no way for them to immigrate legally.

    So simultaneously, we should probably reform that process.


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  15. #35
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    Dont feel bad for NAs, they are making a FORTUNE operating gambling casinos on tribal lands , They are the new millionares.
    Are you kidding, Noms?

    Go do some research. Native Americans in the United States have a higher rate of poverty than any other group.
    http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews...s-poorest.html


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  16. #36
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    I lived in Southern NM, Texas and CA - all border states. As another person already posted, Mexican nationals come to the U.S. because despite their legal status, they are hired en masse to pick crops, work at stables, be nannies, groundpeople, construction, etc. In the border states, most people *I* knew who were wealthy hired illegal immigrants rather than Americans because they didn't have to pay them as much, give benefits, etc. They could afford to hire Americans but they didn't want to spend the money. In short, we have so many illegal immigrants because wealthy people hire them to work the barns, do landscaping and be nannies. As a nation, we focus on the illegal immigrants vastly more than we focus on sanctioning the people who hire them and their relatives from Mexico. Why is that? Could it be because they are wealthy and congress doesn't want to poke that bear? I think the largest incentive to curb illegal immigration is to target the people who specifically and knowingly hire them. What do you think about that approach?
    Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation


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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Dont feel bad for NAs, they are making a FORTUNE operating gambling casinos on tribal lands , They are the new millionares.
    Are you saying that all Native Americans are millionaires? Seriously? You may want to brush up on our nation's history regarding Native Americans...
    Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation


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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Lu View Post
    Are you saying that all Native Americans are millionaires? Seriously? You may want to brush up on our nation's history regarding Native Americans...
    Good god, can you not read.


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  19. #39
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    Again, Noms, go look at the facts, before you accuse people of not being able to read.

    I do think that going after the employers is a far better way of dealing with the issue. Without that, they'll just get new illegals to underpay.



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    Why do the pols give the 20 million illegals more consideration than the 300 million american citizens!

    I think all the illegals need to go back from where they came.
    "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


    America, how much farther can your citizens fall in their meanness of spirit, their vicious pettiness, their bigotry, and their utter lack of comprehension of what it really MEANS to be an American citizen.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


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