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  1. #1
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    Default And this is why you don't let horses go on trial.

    Totally my own fault for letting this guy leave the farm. I am not blaming anyone but myself. I should know better. Sent this horse out for a week trial and he came home.....and now he cribs!!!!

    Was he a closet cribber before? I have had him since November and never once did he crib. I threw a collar on him and started him on some ulcer meds. Is it too late? Is he a cribber for life now? He is 9 yrs old.



  2. #2
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    A week trial making your horse into a cribber? I doubt it.

    If I had to bet, I would say the stress of the moving, trial, and then moving back to your place caused some GI upset/ulcer issues going on.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."


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  3. #3
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    That is kind of what I was getting at, hence the ulcer meds.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuckerForHorses View Post
    If I had to bet, I would say the stress of the moving, trial, and then moving back to your place caused some GI upset/ulcer issues going on.



  4. #4
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    Yikes, I agree the stress caused some behaviors to shine. I would consider treating for ulcers and turning him out as much as possible since he can't crib when he's grazing and it will hopefully unwind him.



  5. #5
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    He is out most of the time here, only comes in for grain and stays in over night once in a while. He is on a round bale, and we have little bits of grass coming in that he is trying to munch on.
    Last edited by Derby Lyn Farms; Apr. 19, 2013 at 01:56 AM.



  6. #6
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    I wouldn't consider it a vice if the horse never did it, and is doing it now because of a medical condition (i.e. ulcers). Its possible your horse had ulcers that weren't exacerbated until he was shipped off to a new stressful location. Why is that the person's fault who took him on trial? Unless you scoped him before he left to prove he didn't have them, you have no way of proving otherwise.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."


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  7. #7
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    A lot of evidence suggests that cribbing has a strong genetic component--it's not a learned behavior. The stressful situation could have just triggered it. The people who had him on trial probably think you were not being forthcoming about the problem!


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  8. #8
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    I totally believe that a horse may be genetically or otherwise predisposed to pick up cribbing. We have had horses that we are positive did not crib before coming to our farm. Possibly due to lack of availability as in solid concrete stall walls like at the track, or are on full turnout. They have come into our barn and though we have had no cribbers at the time, have within a week or so picked up the cribbing. Probably due to the stress of moving, etc. Even going from a crappy situation to something better, and even though our barn is very laid back, it was a change for them. We have also sold a couple horses to new owners. These horses Never cribbed here. New place, within 2 weeks they are cribbing. these have all been OTTBs. Not that I think that really has much to do with it other than they can seem more sensitive to stressors. Unfortunately I have never seen a horse stop the cribbing totally even if "caught" quickly.
    I feel that if they have that tendancy to crib burried inside them that eventually it will come out. Stress of moving from barn to barn can seem, in my cases to be a huge trigger.
    This makes me think in the future if I ever lease a horse out or send out on trial, or even buy or sell a new horse, that I might do some ulcer preventative.
    On a different note I am not too sure of the genetic predisposition for cribbing that some believe in. We had a young horse who was born and raised here, out of our mare and stallion who as a 3 year old started cribbing. We knew her grand dam even and she did not crib, and neither did either parent.
    The mysteries of cribbing!!



  9. #9
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    The first sentence of my original post states that I take full blame for it. I never blamed the other people. A clause in the contract would just be the same as a lameness clause. My horse went to you sound. If he is lame when you try to return him then you have to buy him.

    I am blaming myself for letting him leave as I usually don't do this anymore. I should have sent him with ulcer meds and required them to feed them to him. Lesson learned! There will be absolutely no more trials from now on.
    These people that took him are friends of mine and I know they did not intend for this to happen. They took excellent care of him, but if he gets stressed from moving that is no one's fault. He actually went there with his pasture buddy so I thought it would have been less stressful for him. His pasture mate stayed there.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuckerForHorses View Post
    Why is that the person's fault who took him on trial? Unless you scoped him before he left to prove he didn't have them, you have no way of proving otherwise.


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverview View Post
    We have also sold a couple horses to new owners. These horses Never cribbed here. New place, within 2 weeks they are cribbing. these have all been OTTBs. Not that I think that really has much to do with it other than they can seem more sensitive to stressors.
    Over 90% of race horses have ulcers. I'd say that has more to do with it than TBs just being more sensitive to stressors. The horses you refer to probably already had ulcers to begin with if they weren't treated after ending their racing career.


    Unfortunately I have never seen a horse stop the cribbing totally even if "caught" quickly.
    Were said horses treated for ulcers? If not, that may very well be why they continued to crib.

    Stress of moving from barn to barn can seem, in my cases to be a huge trigger.
    Well yes, stress causes ulcers, and a symptom of ulcers is cribbing (as well as other things like eating wood, irritability, lack of appetite, etc.

    This makes me think in the future if I ever lease a horse out or send out on trial, or even buy or sell a new horse, that I might do some ulcer preventative.
    I agree that would be a good idea for all involved, including the horse.

    On a different note I am not too sure of the genetic predisposition for cribbing that some believe in. We had a young horse who was born and raised here, out of our mare and stallion who as a 3 year old started cribbing. We knew her grand dam even and she did not crib, and neither did either parent.
    Were any empirical ulcer treatments attempted to see if that stopped the cribbing? Foals are extremely susceptible to gastric ulcers. 3 years old was probably around the time you started training on this horse. Is it possible the stress of breaking and training caused GI upset with this horse?

    I think sometimes when we discuss ulcers and vices, that we don't see what is right in front of us, myself included. I didn't realize that my mare had EVERY ulcer symptom in the book until I looked in hindsight. Eventually we scoped her, and sure enough! When we talk about a horse randomly starting to crib, we think "well, must be he was a cribber all along!" but we don't analyze the changes in environment/training/feed, etc to see if maybe those are playing a role in the change in behavior.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  11. #11
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    This thread is the exact reason that I don't ever recommend people TAKE a horse on trial.

    You never know what someone is going to blame you for.
    Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior


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  12. #12
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    I'd get him on GG/UG ASAP and hopefully put an end to the cause of the cribbing. You may well be able to stop the cribbing altogether at this point.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  13. #13
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    Recent article in Equus blows the whole horse-learned-to -crib theory out of the water. Shows strong genetic component, possibly related to ulcers, and interestingly enough...TBs have various high rates of cribbing but STBs in the same track type situations did NOT.

    So anyways.

    OP: probably ulcers, I'm sure he'll be fine, but man I bet that's frustrating!!
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  14. #14
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    I am not blaming the people at all. They had no control over what
    would stress him. A They provided him with a great environment. I am not mad at them. But I stopped doing trials to people I don't know (and some that I do know) because it is too much of a change for them. When someone buys a horse they usually let them settle for a week. With trials we are rushing people through them to make a decision. The cribbing is probably not going to stop, and anything would have set him off eventually.



  15. #15
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    If it's only been a week or so, that's not a lot of time to set a habit, so it's probably more likely you can stop the cribbing if you stop the cause of it, than it having already become an ingrained habit.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  16. #16
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    The cribbing is probably not going to stop, and anything would have set him off eventually.
    Uh, if the cribbing started because the horse had an ulcer flareup, then it will more than likely stop if you treat the root cause...the ulcers.
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  17. #17
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    Default

    So next buyer doesn't get a trial, but takes horsey home and within a week cribbing starts (doesn't even have to be this horse). Don't you think the buyer is going to come back and say you didn't disclose? Do you think your horse knew it was a trial? What would you do if it was a completed sale and this happened? I can't see it as a reason not to allow a trial. Other reasons, yes, but not this.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derby Lyn Farms View Post
    He actually went there with his pasture buddy so I thought it would have been less stressful for him. His pasture mate stayed there.
    Maybe his biggest stress is coming home and not having his pasture buddy.



    I do not think most people buy a horse and let it stand around for a week or more to let it get situated before doing anything with it.



  19. #19
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    I also don't think most people let a horse sit and "adjust" before doing anything. We certainly don't take horses to most shows and let them sit around the show grounds for a week before starting to school them. Many people ship horses to shows and have someone the horse hardly/doesn't know take care of him, getting right on the business of prepping him.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  20. #20
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    I'd say if this horse is that sensitive that a major change like this upsets him, then if/when you do sell him, sell him with a week's worth of Ulcergard and make it known he just does better if he can have some ulcer preventive before something major.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


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