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  1. #41
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    Jan. 12, 2000
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    Proud owner of one Lunar acre! (Campanus Crater, The Moon)
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    14,058

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    What the frack is a "birther?"

    All of those using labels out here need to realize that this is just another way of separating the American citizenry into an "us vs them" culture. Right? Can you figure that one out? It's the same as "left vs right" or "blue vs red." Might as well go back to just using skin color to attack people as insipid as that labeling is. It doesn't help you understand the WHOLE person and what motivates them. You're just trying to put someone in a box that makes YOU feel more comfortable.

    Knock it off and talk to the PERSON. We are a country of individuals. We agree on some things and disagree on others. We all have a RIGHT to our opinions and to speak them. And labeling people (as the media wants us to do) is simply away of finding ways to discount another person's ideas and opinions based on something that is not a full representation of said person.

    Labels are a for cowards or those with limited intelligence.
    "Relinquish your whip!!"


    13 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
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    8,838

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpnow View Post
    Should our Senators vote the will of the people or their own self interests? I am absolutely gobsmacked the modest expansion of background checks for guns was voted down.

    90% of voters wanted an increase in background checks, hence my question.
    Senators (and every other elected person in the U.S.) represent three constituencies:

    1. The persons of their district.
    2. The political party of which they are a member.
    3. Their personal feelings, views, and interests.

    Just what is primary on any given issue will change. There will, however, always be a mixing/matching of these interests.

    We are a republic, not a democracy. That's how republics work.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    16,684

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    Quote Originally Posted by tle View Post

    Did the bomb get blamed for the Boston Marathon tragedy? Why is the gun being blamed for Sandy Hook? It's just a THING! It doesn't do anything without the intent of the user behind it. Any more than a bomb, a car, a baseball bat or a kitchen knife.
    THIS!


    7 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2002
    Location
    Calera, AL
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    1,901

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    It would be interesting to know how the poll was worded.
    "Dogs are man's best friend. Cats are man's adorable little serial killer." -- theoatmeal.com


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    Having the "some of the lowest rates" when there is a significant amount of gun crime is nothing to boast about. A guy got mowed down in a drive-by at a club in Fredericksburg not too long ago. In my own neighborhood, there was a drive-by shooting of a car with two drug dealers in it and I live in what is considered a "safe place". Whenever there's a rape or assault around here, handguns are almost always involved and those sorts of crimes are happening very frequently these days according to the police reports. Is it as bad as Chicago? No, but it certainly isn't "safe" either.
    Perhaps you ought to move to Chicago where the gun laws are tougher then? You can feel good about having tough gun laws while ducking and covering and worrying about being shot on a daily basis. As I said, if gun control works, then what the heck is going on in Chicago?

    I'd be willing to bet that there is a lot of crime deterred by civilians carrying guns. I want to share this article about a survey of police officers..these are our protectors and here is what THEY think about guns and who should have them.

    http://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legisla...-gun-violence/


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul. 29, 2004
    Location
    Colorado
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    1,550

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    Quote Originally Posted by tle View Post
    The general public CANNOT and HAS NOT been able to own an automatic weapon in DECADES.
    You, in fact, are also not quite correct. No new full auto's are allowed in circulation but existing full auto's can be owed/purchased by the "general pubiic". The process is quite detailed and not everyone qualifies but it can be done.

    I am more disappointed the original comment was, IMO, not what was intended as I suspect she did not know the difference between full auto and semi-auto (do you know the difference?)


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Perhaps you ought to move to Chicago where the gun laws are tougher then? You can feel good about having tough gun laws while ducking and covering and worrying about being shot on a daily basis. As I said, if gun control works, then what the heck is going on in Chicago?

    I'd be willing to bet that there is a lot of crime deterred by civilians carrying guns. I want to share this article about a survey of police officers..these are our protectors and here is what THEY think about guns and who should have them.

    http://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legisla...-gun-violence/
    Here's the thing about polls. In order to be relevant, the respondents have to be randomly selected from the population at large. The linked poll was not random, it was only submitted to members of police one and only those who returned questionnaires were counted. Major fail as far as a poll goes.

    Addtionally, here is the question that was asked:

    "Do you think that a federal law prohibiting private, non-dealer transfers of firearms between individuals would reduce violent crime?"

    The bipartisan background check amendment that was just filibustered in the Senate would not impact private, non-dealer transfers; it would only require background checks for commercial sales.


    Now, as far as Chicago, last I checked they don't have metal detectors around the city to prevent someone from buying a gun over the city line and bringing it into the city.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
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    Ohio: Charter Member - COTH Hockey Clique & COTH Buffy Clique
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    9,143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post
    You, in fact, are also not quite correct. No new full auto's are allowed in circulation but existing full auto's can be owed/purchased by the "general pubiic". The process is quite detailed and not everyone qualifies but it can be done.
    You're right. There is a process that CAN be done on what's already out there, but by and large, the limiting factors on it mostly mean they're not available.

    I am more disappointed the original comment was, IMO, not what was intended as I suspect she did not know the difference between full auto and semi-auto (do you know the difference?)
    Yes, I thought the same thing of the comment, which is why I said what I said. She OBVIOUSLY doesn't know the difference and has been fed the party line that I've heard far too often by people who truly have no clue what they're talking about.

    As for me (trying to take hte question as a simple request for info rather than an attack on my knowledge), yes, I do know the difference. I have also fired both a semi and full auto weapons on a range and did damn well if I do say so myself. I find it funny (pulling both comments together) at the number of people who say things in this debate who truly don't have a clue or the experience to know what they're really saying. Biden's comment about how women don't need an AR-15, "just get yourself a good 12 gauge shotgun" comes to mind. I've fired a 12 gauge before. Prior to some modifications my XH did, I fired it all of once... then handed it back to him as it was "too big" for me. (would knock most women off their feet I think) Once he did the mods, I kind of like it as the after market stock and pistol grip (those things that now classify it as an Assault Weapon) made it EASIER to shoot. But the generic 12 ga? It's by FAR harder to shoot and handle proficiently than if you pick up an AR-15 for the first time and shoot it. I have.

    FWIW, I've also shot a .17 rifle, .22 rifle, .22 handgun. .45 handgun., .40 handgun, .306 rifle, .3030 rifle, AR-15, M-4, M-16 (A1 and A2), 9mm handgun, M-60, M-249 and M-203 grenade launcher.

    Oh and I have yet to kill or even harm anyone (can't say the same for raccoons that come to my barn after eggs/chickens, but that's another story).
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul. 29, 2004
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    Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by tle View Post
    As for me (trying to take hte question as a simple request for info rather than an attack on my knowledge), yes, I do know the difference.
    tle, no attack on your knowledge intended. As you phrased it, wasn't sure if you knew the difference or not (and yes, you do ).

    I love my 12ga. A Remington 1100 semi-auto. My favorite story was taking it to a bowling pin shoot (yes, bowling pins were harmed during the course of the competition.) Most competitors were competing with handguns of various calibers. A few were competing with shotguns. The guy before me almost landed on his behind and the RO was worried about that as the RO stood right behind the competitor.

    I get up to the line. My 12ga has an extended magazine (7 rounds and not legal for hunting). 5 pins, 5 shots and not even close to landing on my behind. RO made a comment that maybe I did know how to handle a shotgun

    So the "what is an assault weapon" discussions drive me crazy....


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan. 5, 2012
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    377

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    My 2 senators represent the NRA, because the money comes from there; and then secondly, the bigots because they vote their convictions.

    And I own guns, plural, always have. But I believe in background checks. Which are not going to keep law abiding gun owners from owning guns. I guess if the NRA leaders had to take psychological tests, they fear they might not pass the "sanity" issue to own a gun?


    8 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2000
    Location
    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
    Posts
    18,682

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    Is there nothing that can be trusted to be neutral and actually come up with valid findings.

    You don't trust polls. You don't trust mass media. You don't trust government. You don't trust business. If you feel you cannot trust any of these, where are you getting YOUR information from and why is it to be trusted? Because your biases and its biases conform? If that's the case, why should anyone who doesn't share your biases believe anything you say about current events? They are also getting their information from biased sources, or so you'd say.

    This lack of faith in so many things that affect us daily is leading to a truly paranoid nation, and quite honestly that scares me.

    The
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    8,838

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    A note on terminology.

    Full auto weapons are permitted under Federal law, but states may restrict their ownership. Under Federal law you have to have $200 tax stamp (payable at the time of transfer). To actually make the purchase you have to complete a "dance" that includes a background check. This is quite a complex process. A paper trail is created and preserved.

    Sometimes weapons are "mismarked." For example the proper name for the M1911 pistol is "Automatic Pistol, Caliber .45, M1911." In fact it's a semi-auto, not full auto. In those days the name distinguished it from other .45 cal. revolvers in service (1873 Single Action Army and 1909 New Service Revolver).

    In those days, too, there were not only double action revolvers but semi-automatic revolvers.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



  13. #53
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2000
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    NE TN, USA
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    6,201

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    The closer an election looms, the less attention the politicians pay to their party bosses and the more they pay to their constituents. Note Max Baucus's sudden high profile 180 on Obamacare. When asked why his flip-flop, he answered with one word: "Montana!"
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams



  14. #54
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2007
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    We've removed some personal commentary from the thread and responses to it. Please avoid it going forward.

    Mod 1


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #55
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    Mar. 8, 2011
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    160

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    Moderator-what was removed? birther and teabagger are against the rules? I had no idea!



  16. #56
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    1,668

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    [QUOTE=jumpnow;6945347]Should our Senators vote the will of the people or their own self interests? I am absolutely gobsmacked the modest expansion of background checks for guns was voted down.

    90% of voters wanted an increase in background checks, hence my question.[/QUOTE]


    I serioulsy doubt 90% of Americans could agree on ANY thing. So excuse me while I put this statistic in the trash bin.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
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    Feb. 24, 2011
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    548

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    So... since gun owners are so hell bent on protecting the rights of Americans, where were they when the Patriot Act or NDAA were passed? US citizens have lost a lot of rights in the past decade, and I didn't see one gun owner take a stand against blatant - and unconstitutional - authoritarianism.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #58
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by TickleFight View Post
    So... since gun owners are so hell bent on protecting the rights of Americans, where were they when the Patriot Act or NDAA were passed? US citizens have lost a lot of rights in the past decade, and I didn't see one gun owner take a stand against blatant - and unconstitutional - authoritarianism.
    The Second Amendment and the partiot act are two totally different things.



  19. #59
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2000
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    4,703

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    Article that I think is worth reading:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-s...b_2307172.html
    Charter member of the I-Refuse-to-Relinquish-My-Whip Clique



  20. #60
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
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    Ohio: Charter Member - COTH Hockey Clique & COTH Buffy Clique
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    Trust me... I abhore the Patriot Act as much as I abhore the recent assault on the 2nd Amendment.

    Happy now?
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike


    2 members found this post helpful.

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