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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janet View Post
    Apples and oranges.

    A - The fact that your native country has an "expectation" of you (or, more likely, a LAW requireing you) to do something is VERY differnt from voluntarily taking an OATH to do the same thing for a different country.

    B- It doesn't matter whether you take an oath of citizenship or not. If you are resident in the US (and male) you can be required to take up arms to defend the US. My father (also a permanent resident) had to have a draft card. There have even been cases of people in the US on a valid tourist visa being drafted.
    Your B just made my point for me. Thanks.
    "Relinquish your whip!!"



  2. #102
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libera View Post
    I am a permanent resident... And will be for a while because it takes YEARS to become a citizen... And lots of money that I dont have

    http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/attachments.pdf
    Quite easy really.

    Years yes - lots of money - no. Just the application fee $595 and fingerprints $85.

    Oath
    "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

    Not sure of the relevence if you don't have a God.
    ... _. ._ .._. .._


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #103
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    Nov. 5, 2000
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    9,758

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    Oaths, allegiance, residency status, and God aside -

    I'm guessing the rule probably has more to do with, um, how embarrassing it might be for the sponsoring organization if the U.S. National Dressage Champion is a Dutch citizen. Or a German citizen. Or a Danish citizen. Or a Canadian citizen. Etc.



  4. #104
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    Sep. 18, 2003
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    4,603

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    MP, I think I am? I find the whole bureaucracy confusing. I belong to the PVDA -my GMO -does that make me also a member of USDF? If so yes I am. If not, I guess I need to sort that out before I debut Fella .
    Belonging to a GMO makes you group member, which means you are supporting USDF. Hooray for you!

    But in order to qualify for regionals, which are open to all, regardless of citizenship, you have to be a participating member (hint: more $). You'll also have to get a horse ID# (more $) to compete at any USDF-recognized show.

    There's probably more than I'm missing. Have fun sorting all that out. I know I did.
    __________________________
    "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
    the best day in ten years,
    you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2012
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    There's probably more than I'm missing
    and a saddle. you need a saddle \I think


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #106
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    Mar. 26, 2011
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    Pennsylvania
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    LOL! I don't have a saddle yet! Working on that. My saddle maker (treeless) will be making me a dressage saddle. I have a picture of us at our Western show (stacked just to show Eli how his endurance style saddle fits) and I have to say I never noticed how short-coupled Fella was until I saw the photo.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/5296733...in/photostream

    MP, yes, the ID. I was looking at that. It's either small price ID or the lifetime registration which is $90. I'm inclined to do the lifetime just to not have the hassle in the future.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  7. #107
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Packing my bags
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janet View Post
    Not at all.

    You have to be a US citizen to WIN the US National Championship.
    The others should ride better!

    Regardless, I was poking fun at the flag swinging nastiness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  8. #108
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    Oct. 3, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discobold View Post
    I agree. And, not to be rude, but how many of those complaining are really going to be personally affected by this rule? This is only for the Finals.
    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    "And not to be rude, but..." I'm gonna be rude.

    Wow.

    Paula
    What was rude about that? It's the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    It speaks to the distinction. If indeed most of these riders are not born here why not use Permanent Residence -it is hard to get, takes years to accomplish. Why citizenship? What's the difference -more time, $600 and an oath. I can see that maybe a high security job would appreciate the nuance, but dressage?

    Paula
    Wanna know the difference? Ask Meredith Michaels Beerbaum. If you ride at an international level, you need to be a citizen, and that is the same in every country.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post

    As for Bristol Bay, s/he's always busting chops about Western Dressage and I'm trying to figure out whether this poster just has an especially dry sense of humor that I don't get (this has been known to happen), or if this poster is just being a snob and a meanie.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


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  9. #109
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post

    Wanna know the difference? Ask Meredith Michaels Beerbaum. If you ride at an international level, you need to be a citizen, and that is the same in every country.
    I like to believe that she married for love, and not because the chances of making the squad were easier in Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #110
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    Oct. 3, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    I like to believe that she married for love, and not because the chances of making the squad were easier in Germany
    She did marry for love, and has talked about how difficult it was to hand over her US passport. My point was that she couldn't ride at her level in another country so she had no choice. As a US citizen, she couldn't be riding for Germany, and living in Germany, she couldn't be here to ride in the qualifiers to ride for the US.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #111
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    Oct. 13, 2003
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    Eastern Pacific coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post

    Gosh, you know people who are born citizens and have only contempt for the US. And heck, just in the news you heard about 2 young men who went the distance and became citizens and had no love for this country.
    The older brother (aka Suspect #1) was not a citizen of the US. He had a green card. The NY Times said that a "hold" had been placed on his citizenship request because of the FBI's previous background check.
    -Amor vincit omnia-



  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    She did marry for love, and has talked about how difficult it was to hand over her US passport. My point was that she couldn't ride at her level in another country so she had no choice. As a US citizen, she couldn't be riding for Germany, and living in Germany, she couldn't be here to ride in the qualifiers to ride for the US.
    She could have stayed American though....it's not like thy don't travel the world at barn Beerbaum...

    But we are not exactly talking about making the national team either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mardi View Post
    The older brother (aka Suspect #1) was not a citizen of the US. He had a green card. The NY Times said that a "hold" had been placed on his citizenship request because of the FBI's previous background check.
    Okay, then there goes my analogy because clearly citizenship is an accurate measurement of loyalty. Are you kidding? So one of the brothers who went all anti-American-blow-stuff-up was a citizen and the other was a permanent resident.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  14. #114
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    Jun. 15, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/attachments.pdf
    Quite easy really.

    Years yes - lots of money - no. Just the application fee $595 and fingerprints $85.
    Um... Its not like you can just hop on a plane to the US and file for citizenship upon landing. First you have to file a whole bunch of other stuff, like your I130, I485, etc. etc. And guess what, some of those are over a $1k EACH, and that does add up!
    Maybe not a lot of money to you, but it was a lot of money to me....


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #115
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    Of course it's not as easy and as cheap as those whose experience of the immigration process is from internet research think. No need to even respond. Those of us in the know simply smiled and thought, "well bless your heart."

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #116
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    Oct. 16, 2008
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    Central Oklahoma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    She did marry for love, and has talked about how difficult it was to hand over her US passport. My point was that she couldn't ride at her level in another country so she had no choice. As a US citizen, she couldn't be riding for Germany, and living in Germany, she couldn't be here to ride in the qualifiers to ride for the US.
    When I handed over my passport, I had such a conflicting feeling, like I had betrayed the country that raised me. And that oath? It's like a hammer to your head, literally! I never thought I'd feel that way: my happiest memories have always be in the US and not in my own native country, a country that is not nearly as wealthy or powerful as US, but still... sigh... I know many people choose to remain a "permanent" resident, literally, and not be nationalized, and when I asked them why, the reason is usually, "because I don't want to give up my passport."



  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libera View Post
    Um... Its not like you can just hop on a plane to the US and file for citizenship upon landing. First you have to file a whole bunch of other stuff, like your I130, I485, etc. etc. And guess what, some of those are over a $1k EACH, and that does add up!
    Maybe not a lot of money to you, but it was a lot of money to me....

    You stated that you were already a permanent resident;

    Quote Originally Posted by Libera View Post
    I am a permanent resident... And will be for a while because it takes YEARS to become a citizen... And lots of money that I dont have
    SO - all that is required is time, some forms and $680.00.
    NOT a fortune or a hardship.
    Not all countries demand that you have to give up your passport when you take American citizenship.
    ... _. ._ .._. .._



  18. #118
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    Paula, not want to take the oath does not mean they don't like US. They do, or they won't be here. It just means they want to remain their allegiance with their native countries, and as such, cannot represent US. They can represent their own countries though.
    Is dual citizenship an option? My mother was born in the US of native Swiss parents. She had the option of dual citizenship. Had she taken the option I would have in turn had the same option.

    ETA:When my grandparents arrived here they became Americans. While they loved their homeland and went back when they could they were now in their minds Americans. They learned english, Schweizerdeutsch was spoken only when they didn't want the children to understand.
    Last edited by carolprudm; Apr. 25, 2013 at 04:16 PM. Reason: add
    I wasn't always a Smurf
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    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  19. #119
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    For me it's not an allegiance thing. I do think you can have dual citizenship with a number of countries.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    Is dual citizenship an option?
    It depends on the country.

    My home country does not recognize the "renounce and abjure " languiage, and still recognizes you as a citizen whether you want it or not.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



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