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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mardi View Post
    Finally some sanity.

    If I, as a US citizen lived and rode in ______ (insert non-US country here), and that country had a national dressage championship open only to their citizens, the last thing I'd do is complain and whine. Why would I feel so entitled ?

    It's their country, their horse show, and their national championship.
    I agree. And, not to be rude, but how many of those complaining are really going to be personally affected by this rule? This is only for the Finals.


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  2. #42
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    "And not to be rude, but..." I'm gonna be rude.

    Wow.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


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  3. #43
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    And, BTW, that's also been the rule for showjumping finals. Maybe before you go ballistics on the internet about something that - yes - I believe won't personally affect 99% of you (or me either) you need to check the rules in other countries and other disciplines.


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  4. #44
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    What do the rules in other countries and disciplines have to do with this? And no one is going "ballistics [sic]." Sheesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb


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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discobold View Post
    And, BTW, that's also been the rule for showjumping finals. Maybe before you go ballistics on the internet about something that - yes - I believe won't personally affect 99% of you (or me either) you need to check the rules in other countries and other disciplines.
    Well, it's supposedly modeled after breed show national championships - trying to make it a destination every year people want to go to. At least from the discussion which was passed along to me after the decision made at the USDF convention I attended.

    The breed show championships DID apply to me growing up, though I'm still in the 99% to whom this doesn't directly apply given I am US born. However, I feel it applies all the same. Our dues and fees at shows are going toward support and running this show - so anyone who is a USDF member is affected by the rule, whether a citizen or not, and whether they qualify or not. I suspect the rule is most meant to keep Canadians out of the championships since they're the only country heavily represented here, but given how regionals work out the only way I see a Swede as likely to compete is if they live here, not that they'd fly across the ocean to qualify, to go to regionals, and to go to the championships. Europe is different because of geography, and I don't see why we would need to follow their exact path in a program modeled after breed show national championships.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  6. #46
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    True but breed showing is not an olympic sport and that does change things. I rather like the idea of having something specific to our citizens since, yes, we have our own pool that Id like to see who is doing what without always comparing everything to europe.

    It will help us groom a better team IMO.
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/


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  7. #47
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    Funny that most riders representing the USA are not born here...


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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libera View Post
    Funny that most riders representing the USA are not born here...
    Define "most."

    They are, however, citizens of the US.
    "Relinquish your whip!!"


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  9. #49
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    It speaks to the distinction. If indeed most of these riders are not born here why not use Permanent Residence -it is hard to get, takes years to accomplish. Why citizenship? What's the difference -more time, $600 and an oath. I can see that maybe a high security job would appreciate the nuance, but dressage?

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    It speaks to the distinction. If indeed most of these riders are not born here why not use Permanent Residence -it is hard to get, takes years to accomplish. Why citizenship? What's the difference -more time, $600 and an oath. I can see that maybe a high security job would appreciate the nuance, but dressage?

    Paula
    Who are you addressing? The OP? Can't be my last reply since it was pointed to the team. Which has FEI and Olympic rules.
    "Relinquish your whip!!"



  11. #51
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    I don't understand your reply -pointed to the team? Can you explain? Like I said, my participation in this discussion is only academic. It strikes me funny that you can defend the United States in war as a permanent resident, but you can't represent a dressage team.


    ETA: I understand what you're saying now. You're saying the team in question, even though they are foreign born, are naturalized citizens. So my reply is not directed to your post in particular. I'm talking in general terms with regards to the thrust of the discussion.


    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discobold View Post
    And, BTW, that's also been the rule for showjumping finals. Maybe before you go ballistics on the internet about something that - yes - I believe won't personally affect 99% of you (or me either) you need to check the rules in other countries and other disciplines.
    In Eventing, non citizens can compete, but the Championship goes to the highest place US citizen. One year it was at Over the Walls and my sister (not a US citizen) won, but the big trophy went to the second place rider, who was a US citizen.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    I guess I look at it from an immigrant's POV. Mind you I'm just having an academic discussion as I am nowhere near to the skill level of the people in question! We can be permanent residents for decades. In a period of decades you definitely become part of a country and it would be awesome to represent your new home.

    Paula
    Paula, if you have been a residents for decades and still don't have citizenship, it is your choice not to be nationalized. Why should US let someone who does not want to relinquish their foreign allegiance and become a US citizen to represent US?


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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libera View Post
    Funny that most riders representing the USA are not born here...
    But they are willing to become US citizens, which also means they are willing to absolve foreign sovereign under oath.


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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    But they are willing to become US citizens, which also means they are willing to absolve foreign sovereign under oath.
    God forbid one do a half pass without absolving [sic] foreign sovereign under oath.


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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    But they are willing to become US citizens, which also means they are willing to absolve foreign sovereign under oath.
    Oh Dear....

    Know of which you speak.

    There are a lot of people on this thread who have no clue.

    Try walking in another person's shoes for a while......


    I am not even commenting on nationality vs residency....I have no showing ambitions, so that is about moot for me as it gets. But there is the little thing about collecting membership fees and accepting services, etc, just to snub people at the gate. Sounds a bit unfair to me....

    However: People, if you are born with a US passport, count your blessings, because the immigration process is convoluted, long winded and anachronistic.

    And did I mention long winded and time consuming?

    From the moment you set foot on US soil to the moment you may be able to raise your hand to take the oath, yes, a decade can pass. Ten years is a mighty long time to sit on the sidelines because the red tape is tying you down.


    (and whether or not you "absolve foreign sovereign" depends on many things, but dual citizenships are far from uncommon!)


    So, yeah, it's one more rule, concocted by people who have no clue how things work in the real world. OMG, one guy tried to cheat.....Le Sigh.

    For all of you who don't have t deal with the red tape, be more respectful of people who do take risks, like moving away from home (and not all come from 2nd and 3rd world countries, you know) and less judgmental. If you can manage that, of course. if not....Silence is golden!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    Paula, if you have been a residents for decades and still don't have citizenship, it is your choice not to be nationalized. Why should US let someone who does not want to relinquish their foreign allegiance and become a US citizen to represent US?
    Well there are many reasons people don't make the leap to citizenship. Off the top of my head I can think of cost right off the top of my head. The oath taking might also be an issue for some who don't want to swear to bear arms.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  18. #58
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    Default Possible clarification...

    ... and I've not read the qualification section of this event, but:
    anyone may compete at a National Championship, but when it comes to final classification (the awarding of the ribbons), only U.S. riders may be considered for the Championship classification.

    A foreign rider may actually win the class (First level... whatever), and receive a blue ribbon, but the top placing U.S. rider will be winner of the Championship at that level.

    ( I realize that the specs for this event maybe have specifically barred foreign riders??... anyhow, the above is the manner in which U.S. National Championships award their prizes.)


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  19. #59
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    It's a national championship for our country. Other people can compete, just cannot be national champ. What in the world is the big deal? You want to win in the country where you're a citizen? Go there and compete for the championship. You want to win one here? Commit and take the long road to citizenship (I know people who have done that and are grateful that now they are citizens there is a difference in their opportunities--like this one).

    I'm not understanding all the breast beating over this issue. It's not saying you can't become a citizen. It's not saying you can't compete. It's just saying you can't have the title. Okay. If I was in another country and not a citizen I would never expect to be given the title of a national champion. I just wouldn't. What's the big whoop? Steffan took the long road to citizen and is now able to represent us and seems to be very happy about that difference in his life (citizenship). Why not ask someone like him for an opinion on the title of US Champion?

    Honestly, it's better than all the complaining out here by those who just want something they can't have (which doesn't happen often in this country--since we do treat non-citizens better than other countries based on the huge amount of people I've met from India who've been working here for years with a green card and have told me so). There are many things you can't have in this life. It's just the way it is. If everything were even, then everyone who entered a dressage show would get a participation ribbon instead of a first through sixth place ribbon (if they even got those).
    "Relinquish your whip!!"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    Well there are many reasons people don't make the leap to citizenship. Off the top of my head I can think of cost right off the top of my head. The oath taking might also be an issue for some who don't want to swear to bear arms.

    Paula
    Don't like our country? Don't become a citizen. It's like that in ALL countries around the world. You have choices. You have options. You're here, you can decide to take the oath or not and to try to become a citizen or not.

    I honestly do not all this beating of the breast when a non-citizen can compete and win, they just cannot hold the title. It makes perfect sense as a "national" championship for people of the USA (meaning citizens who are committed to the country). Often these will help people qualify for other grants, etc., that will help build the team for the USA. Makes sense.
    "Relinquish your whip!!"


    3 members found this post helpful.

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