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  1. #21
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    Let's remember that Bute is only one of the many, commonly used without supervision of a Vet, drugs we give our horses that these agencies have banned as well, for which there are no tests that I have been able to find, that ID the presence of the substance in a live animal pre-processing.

    The whole 'bute won't hurt you' meme is limp... as others have pointed out the agencies governing imports of several nations say no.
    There doesn't have to be proof that this is a legitimate restriction or that it is incredibly harmful... they said no. That should be enough for us to comply.

    The belligerent refusal of some to see that, that complying with what those agencies want/do not want is what must be done, is what solidifies for us the idea that the horse slaughter industry has no intention of doing things better, more humanely, or with greater consideration if they get to open new plants in the US.
    They keep shooting themselves in the foot with this and then insisting that they aren't shooting themselves in the foot... as they limp off into the sunset...


    7 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by analise View Post
    That is just a patently ridiculous statement, 7a.
    This one is worth saving because it applies to every comment made by 7a containing the words "RARA" or "sisterhood".
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    In this afternoon posts, that are nowhere to be found now, someone posted this link:

    http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/ex...nd-horse-meat/

    I think this is short and to the point, fits in with what I have been reading about this:

    ---Prof Sir Colin Berry, Emeritus Professor of Pathology at Queen Mary, University of London, said:

    “The compound has rarely caused blood dyscrasias even on those who have taken a lot for many years. The idea that you might get a clinically significant amount in horse meat even after therapeutic administration to the horse is, frankly, daft.”"---


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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  5. #25
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    Oh, look! It has rudimentary google skills!
    How cute.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    In this afternoon posts, that are nowhere to be found now,...

    So much for actual discussion of ongoing current events.



  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    So, as several new slaughterhouses begin to warm up for debuts in the next several weeks,
    Please provide the link or more information pertaining to the validity of this statement.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
    In this afternoon posts, that are nowhere to be found now,...

    So much for actual discussion of ongoing current events.
    Yes, it was you who posted that one link with the scientists quotes that it was not a health concern with what we know today.

    Thank you.



  9. #29
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    Hmm as a ra patient i can tell you that bute isnt on the table though those stats make it seem like tylenol! Compared to the cancer drugs used its childs play apparently?

    Oh please

    Its not a viable treatment often used
    Beyond the Ring-para dressage, training, coaching


    TEAM PRINCE VEGETA OF SAYJINS



  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Teddy* View Post
    Hmm as a ra patient i can tell you that bute isnt on the table though those stats make it seem like tylenol! Compared to the cancer drugs used its childs play apparently?

    Oh please

    Its not a viable treatment often used

    Agree, but to say that just because a horse years ago had bute is now a risk to eat a few ounces of that horse's meat because it may have some residue, well, that is a very long stretch, when it comes to the science of it.
    Especially if they have a test for it, in case a horse had bute recently, although with rules today many horses come from a feedlot, where any residues should long be gone.

    Now, as long as "any bute ever" is against regulations, those come first, unless or until they are re-evaluated and changed or not.
    Existing regulations is what management has to work with.

    That is all anyone that has been following this can say.



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Agree, but to say that just because a horse years ago had bute is now a risk to eat a few ounces of that horse's meat because it may have some residue, well, that is a very long stretch, when it comes to the science of it.
    Especially if they have a test for it, in case a horse had bute recently, although with rules today many horses come from a feedlot, where any residues should long be gone.

    Now, as long as "any bute ever" is against regulations, those come first, unless or until they are re-evaluated and changed or not.
    Existing regulations is what management has to work with.

    That is all anyone that has been following this can say.
    Yep!! Hmm they must think it cannot be metabolized and excreted? Id think a waiting period for the system to be cleaned out yes, no bute ever not plausible and moreso not being able to tell unless they raised the stock themselves, too much unknown otherwise
    Beyond the Ring-para dressage, training, coaching


    TEAM PRINCE VEGETA OF SAYJINS



  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Agree, but to say that just because a horse years ago had bute is now a risk to eat a few ounces of that horse's meat because it may have some residue, well, that is a very long stretch, when it comes to the science of it.
    Especially if they have a test for it, in case a horse had bute recently, although with rules today many horses come from a feedlot, where any residues should long be gone.

    Now, as long as "any bute ever" is against regulations, those come first, unless or until they are re-evaluated and changed or not.
    Existing regulations is what management has to work with.

    That is all anyone that has been following this can say.
    It is not my place to say that because I would never eat horse meat, others should not eat it.

    Therefore:
    It is no one's place to say that simply because 'we' think it's no big deal to ingest and it's not proven that it will hurt you, the EU and other agencies should allow bute or the other drugs on the list of banned substances in the meat they import.

    The govm't agencies are very clear on what they do/do not allow.
    That the industry and it's supporters continue to argue against those limits doesn't bode well for their willingness to comply with any of the regulations within the industry.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    It is not my place to say that because I would never eat horse meat, others should not eat it.

    Therefore:
    It is no one's place to say that simply because 'we' think it's no big deal to ingest and it's not proven that it will hurt you, the EU and other agencies should allow bute or the other drugs on the list of banned substances in the meat they import.

    The govm't agencies are very clear on what they do/do not allow.
    That the industry and it's supporters continue to argue against those limits doesn't bode well for their willingness to comply with any of the regulations within the industry.
    I beg to disagree.
    Every industry has to go bat for what makes sense for that industry, especially when they have one of the biggest, richest non-profit groups in the world set on banning them as their current cause of the moment, that is how that groups makes it's living.

    There is nothing wrong with defending what you do in life everyone does and has done for millennia, defending from extremists with some strange ideas to change the world into their illogical utopia.
    Or it should not be, or we would be back to living in caves.



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I beg to disagree.
    Every industry has to go bat for what makes sense for that industry, especially when they have one of the biggest, richest non-profit groups in the world set on banning them as their current cause of the moment, that is how that groups makes it's living.

    There is nothing wrong with defending what you do in life everyone does and has done for millennia, defending from extremists with some strange ideas to change the world into their illogical utopia.
    Or it should not be, or we would be back to living in caves.
    So it's not ok for people to impose their beliefs on others about something, unless it is?
    There's a word for that. Hypo-something?

    ETA
    By the way, the HSUS and PETA are not even amongst the top 30 NFP agencies in the world w/$133M in assets for HSUS in 2011

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...le_foundations

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humane_..._United_States
    Last edited by Angela Freda; Apr. 18, 2013 at 01:15 PM.


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  15. #35
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    The ban on the use of phenylbutazone in animals used as food is not the work of AR extremists.

    There are a lot of drugs which are prohibited for use in food animals.

    If one wants to extend the use of horses into food, one has to comply with regulations.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazzu View Post
    The ban on the use of phenylbutazone in animals used as food is not the work of AR extremists.

    There are a lot of drugs which are prohibited for use in food animals.

    If one wants to extend the use of horses into food, one has to comply with regulations.
    Right, well stated and yes, as long as there is a ban, they better comply.

    Now, the ban didn't come from animal rights extremists, but they have made it one of their more successful battle cries, using it in alarmist ways, for their drive to ban horse slaughter.
    I hope no one wants to try to deny that obvious fact, obvious just reading these many pages, I think.

    I take drug use and proper withdrawals very seriously, we have seminars on that with beef cattle all the time, it is very important to know what you can use, how you can use it, how and how fast any we use is metabolize and excreted and or what is retained where and for how long.

    Bute has, according to old studies, some long lasting residue, but those studies have been questioned lately and the truth is that no one really knows that much about it, that is one reason for the ban.

    The science we have, according to what I have been reading since this became one more card in the drive that is this cause of the moment "ban horse slaughter" and most independent scientists that know about this topic admit that to say that, after some times years have past from bute use, it is "daft", quoting from that one English scientist.

    BUT, you are right, as long as the ban is in place, all this is moot question, no bute means just that, no bute.
    Those in charge better find ways to determine how to manage for that regulation and the problems trying to comply with it brings.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    BUT, you are right, as long as the ban is in place, all this is moot question, no bute means just that, no bute.
    Those in charge better find ways to determine how to manage for that regulation and the problems trying to comply with it brings.
    Agree.



  18. #38
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    The missing posts went to a development forum that accidentally went live. For those wanting links, etc. that can't be seen here.

    here is a link to that doppleganger if you want to read the missing posts.

    http://underdev02.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum.php

    -Please don't post or pm over there...mods are seeing if they can bring over the posts so keep new posts on the 'real forum', please.



  19. #39
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    This this this this


    Quote Originally Posted by ADM7040 View Post
    7arabians, your hysterical spin is exceeded only by your complete lack of understanding of drug safety and risk analysis. The risk of bute is not a "rara spin", it is a decision based upon available data by the FDA and the USDA. I have explained how that works in other threads, but you were probably too busy being hysterical on those threads to comprehend anything that did not support your own dogma.

    The long and short of it is something I have read the rabid pro-slaughter proponents post over and over (it is simply inconvenient in this case for their faction): there already are pre-existing rules and regulations that need to be enforced and followed. Bute and multiple other substances, are already banned in animals intended for human consumption. The official government agencies in the US, Canada, Japan, EU, etc have all determined this to be regulation/law. Why should horses be held to a lower standard than cows and pigs?

    Hmmm, that could be the start of a slippery slope theory such as the one always being bandied about that we are going to lose our animals. Except here it is that if we let the agriculture industry allow these substances into the human food chain via horses, they will not stop there, they will use it as a stepping stone to introduce legislation allowing cows and pigs to start receiving banned substances as well. That is not a path I am willing to go down. The human food chain needs to be kept as clean and safe as possible.




  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    You forgot to document where your quote came from.



    that horses that are slaughtered are generally far older than similar other slaughter animals.
    .
    This is so untrue. There are many old cows, goats, sheep, pigs that make their way into the food chain via slaughter when their production days are done and they can be into their teens and beyond.

    I would also add that there are horses that live their whole lives w/o ever ingesting bute or any other drug/ antibiotic whatsoever. It isn't as rare as you would have us believe. Unless you raise meat for yourself you never know what your going to get and I don't care what your eating.



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