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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2003
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    Alberta
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    5,357

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    I'm sure I've heard before that "right of first refusal" is awfully hard to uphold. I'm assuming because you no longer legally OWN the horse so if you legally no longer own the horse you cannot have any legal say in how the CURRENT owner decides what to do with it? If you never want a horse that's for sale to be sold on or "rehomed" why sell in the first place? A free lease contract would solve these issues.
    Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    14

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    Well, I had not heard that "first right of refusal" was difficult to uphold, until now. Yes, I am afraid I did have a say so because it was a "conditional sale". That is what "conditional sale" means; that in order to get the property, in this case a horse, the buyer agrees to pre set "conditions". The transaction started out as a free lease. Over the months, yes months, of communication I agreed to the sale at zero dollars as long as the terms or condtions were agreed to, which this person signed that they were agreeing to. You are right: should have kept it as a free lease. You are wrong however in that a conditional sale has no bearing in the matter. I will not debate the legality of the "sale" here and once again, my questions in this matter were: the fraud/theft by deception and harassment. Further, why should it be a hard thing for someone to uphold what they have agreed to and be honest? That has nothing to do with my end of this issue it has EVERYTHING to do with the other person involved in this. Either you are or you are not. Quite simple in my book and pointing out all of the things that should have been done differently does not negate the duplicity and deceit of this person.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep. 19, 2003
    Location
    Brentwood, NH
    Posts
    1,069

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    A free lease doesn't solve everything. I had a pony out on a free lease who turned up in a for sale ad. We were able to get her back before she was sold, but only with the help of our local PD. Just heard about another pony out on free lease in Pennsylvania who was sold, went through the Camelot auction twice and ended up in a camp in New York. Legitimate owner had to buy her back from them.



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul. 15, 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    853

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    Since you seem to have the answers to everything, why did you even post this?
    Railgirl.blogspot.com


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov. 27, 2009
    Location
    Gladstone, Oregon
    Posts
    540

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    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    Take all the paper & snapshot evidence you can collect & go to the police.
    If it's a private drive, put up a gate etc.
    Talk to a lawyer - all the harrassment can certainly be stopped but you may have to involve legal counsel to get police to act (depending on your local).
    Keep everything private until you determine your rights/actions - including deleting your original post here & elsewhere.
    Islandequine is a very dear and close friend of mine. If she could fence her drive, I know she would. Unfortunately, there are other residences. And no, a co-op move towards a gate cant be reached.

    I can testify on the condition of the mare. IMHO, her body score was very generous. You couldn't even tell she was full term.

    I've been a supportive ear for IE throughout this awful ordeal. I'm even highly angered over it, I have an especially long fuse. The harassment is childish and the perps are cutting their own rope at this point. Everything is very well documented. IE has been silent towards these people and the harassment has been ongoing.
    Quote Originally Posted by dizzywriter View Post
    My saddle fits perfectly well. It might be a little tight around the waist, but I take care of that with those spandex things.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov. 27, 2009
    Location
    Gladstone, Oregon
    Posts
    540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MMacallister View Post
    Since you seem to have the answers to everything, why did you even post this?
    No need to be catty. I turned her onto this forum because there are extremely knowledgable people here that I thought could maybe help her.
    Quote Originally Posted by dizzywriter View Post
    My saddle fits perfectly well. It might be a little tight around the waist, but I take care of that with those spandex things.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    3,994

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    I wish you, your mare (and foal) good luck, and I do hope you get some sort of restitution, the asshat harassers stop, hopefully with some sort of legal penalty.

    But I also think you're going to have a very hard time enforcing a contract in which you sold the horse. Regardless of a right of first refusal (which the other poster was right about, very difficult to enforce), you no longer owned the horse. Conditions or not, once the horse was no longer yours, she became the property of another person and therefore theirs to do whatever they wanted with.

    I'm not a lawyer, but I wonder if, instead of trying to go after them on the clause about first refusal, you could simply get the entire contract thrown out on the basis that they were committing fraud and obviously had no intention honoring it when they signed it.
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2008
    Location
    Dutchess County, New York
    Posts
    4,085

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMare01 View Post
    But I also think you're going to have a very hard time enforcing a contract in which you sold the horse. Regardless of a right of first refusal (which the other poster was right about, very difficult to enforce), you no longer owned the horse. Conditions or not, once the horse was no longer yours, she became the property of another person and therefore theirs to do whatever they wanted with.
    If it is a valid contract of course it can be enforced!!!!

    The issue is that getting it enforced is DIFFICULT, not that once the horse is sold the terms of the contract no longer apply.

    To enforce it I think you have to go to court, which is a major pain and not something everyone wants to do. Just putting the provisions in the contract is no guarantee that the other party will abide by them.

    The only reason to not put a right of first refusal in is in realizing that to make someone comply when they don't want to is hard. Rights of first refusal are in many other types of contracts, notably real estate transactions.

    Also "consideration" doesn't always have to be monetary.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Boston Area
    Posts
    8,388

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    Just wanted to say good job at getting your horse back and doing right by her.

    I hope you can get the harassment to stop soon. Many contracts can be difficult to enforce and almost impossible to collect a judgment but if monetary satisfaction is not what you hope to accomplish, you may at least be able to keep this person from continuing to misrepresent themselves.

    Good luck!
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    14

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    Yes, you are correct. I have spoken with the lawyer about that very fact. The question is one of costs and small claims vs regular court. Instead of jumping right into the hiring of attorneys to represent me, thereby driving up the costs which have already been substanial to me, it was decided that going to small claims route would be a better choice. If for some reason this ends up as a regular court case, I will be seeking to have the contact formally declared null and voidl, which it in essense was the minute the person who got my mare rehomed her elsewhere. That is the violation of the agreement. I do believe that if it goes that route, I will try to prove the fraud and theft by deception. In any event, legal matters are difficult and I am forging my way through the best I can.



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    14

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    Thank you. My mare is the most important thing, which is why I gave the creep the money so I could get her immediate attention. If I get money back I will be very happy but mostly I want to make this person painfully aware that there ARE consequences to their behavior and that I will fight for them to be held accountable.



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    14

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    Do you have a dog in this fight? You seem to be very hostile MMacallister. Did I say I have all the answers? No. Have I done a lot of research and asked questions and sought advice, legal and otherwise? Yes. Do I still have questions and would like some advice or constructive feedback? Yes also. Since you didn't have anything positive to say I guess my question to you would be, "Why did YOU bother to post anything"?



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    19,869

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    Just so you know, I have gone to small claims court three times, all horse related. One was unpaid training bills, one was Mark Bliss who sold a horse that did not exist to me and a few other people, and one was a free leaser who sold the horse to buy crack. I won all three cases. Did not collect a dime and did not get the crack horse back. I am not telling you not to fight but am telling you to be extremely pleasantly surprised if anything comes from it.



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    14

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    Glad you got your pony back. I am having a very hard time understanding what drives people to this lowest form of behavior. Our society is very troubled for sure.



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2013
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    14

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    I really don't expect to get any money but if I get a judgement this person will be open to having assets attached until judgement gets satisfied. That will affect their future schooling endeavors and career choices. I think that this issue is important enough for me to fight until the end.



  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    19,869

    Default

    In fantasy land maybe. None of that happens in real life very often. Just ask the COTHer who holds a lien against a stallion owner for non payment. That horse was just sold to Canada despite the lien and her holding the registration papers. Again, I am not telling you not to fight but to temper your expectations of the outcome of that fight.



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    5,785

    Default

    Life is too short. you got your mare back. If you ignore whatever else is going on (sorry I did not have the patience to read all the details) the problem will go away.

    If you had done your homework you would have found that contracts similar to yours with 'conditions' are almost impossible to enforce.

    The truth will come out eventually about the woman who behaved dishonestly someday in one way or another, probably through a series of similar behaviors and willingness to lie and screw over others.

    It is not worth the negative energy to go after someone for whom you will likely have no case for anything prosecutable. It would likely cost you more money that it is worth and not be worth it in the end. Just walk away and be rid of her. And don't give away horses with 'conditions' in the future. Either sell them for fair market value or give them away with no conditions - or keep them.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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