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  1. #41
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    I have no prejudice. My judgment is retrospective (post-judice?) based on review of the available evidence and a really strong background and depth of understanding of physiology.

    I don't recall saying it was harmful or that it would never be appropriate. But in the absence of deficiency it is not, IN FACT, a calming "factor" (whatever that means) in any way, shape, or form.

    Mumbling by nonscientists on a web newsletter about its role in "muscle excitation" tells me they have no clue about how the nervous system works.
    Click here before you buy.



  2. #42
    CVPeg is online now Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Well, good news is that the swelling/heat has gone down - was down the next day. But I'm still taking it very easy - no riding. And his new turnout situation fits the bill for him - stall or small level paddock. As of yesterday, he had no issues in the stall during the day - they kept him in hay.

    Gave him bute over the weekend, and bought a calming supplement just in case, but haven't cracked it open.

    Call from lameness vet this morning. She agrees to keep it conservative. Is supposed to be in the area next week, and we'll probably get an ultrasound of that leg. Horse getting shod this week.

    I've been looking at other places, and still have a couple more to look at. BO being very easy to work with again. Problem is, the other very good places are over an hour drive. Especially now if he has issues, I'm trying to wrap my head around the logistics. If my guy can behave himself in a stall during the day, with small turnout at night, until the grass comes in, and if we know his leg is fine, and the BO goes along and stays with this plan, I may stay for the time being. But still know we may be too much "trouble" for this barn. Would be great if all horses could live in all conditions. Even greater if I had the $$/place/support to have my own! You really appreciate a good barn, and being in the area of them, when having this kind of experience.

    I'll be wrapping him, but my bandages have disappeared. All I could find locally was some that felt - like felt! Or Vetwrap for bandages? (gal in the store said she uses it! my instinct - errr, don't think so...) So have to order online. Vet suggests No Bow or Back On Track. But curious, aren't there just normal cotton bandages anymore? TG I still have my great flannels, just not the bandages...
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  3. #43
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    I've used vet wrap over cotton sheeting but it's hard to find lately, so I always have no bows on hand. Vet warp over the flannels may work too.



  4. #44
    CVPeg is online now Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Sounds like an idea - may try the vet wrap over the flannels, but I'm a bit concerned about it tightening. Bandages ordered from Valley Vet, but will take at least 3 days. Just reading about the no bows/BOTs, though - they add heat and increase circulation, but we're keeping this leg hosed. How is one the same as the next? or should you alternate. Hose, dry, then no bow/BOT. just curious. And thanks!
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  5. #45
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    I wouldn't bandage with vetwrap in this situation. I use it when a horse gets externally injured and I need as minimal shifting as possible, and even then I make sure I use enough padding to insure the nothing is being compressed.

    In this case, you want something that will offer support but will have a certain "give".

    I really don't trust BOT, I much prefer the eskadron liners with acrylic bandages on top.


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  6. #46
    CVPeg is online now Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCMSL View Post
    I wouldn't bandage with vetwrap in this situation. I use it when a horse gets externally injured and I need as minimal shifting as possible, and even then I make sure I use enough padding to insure the nothing is being compressed.

    In this case, you want something that will offer support but will have a certain "give".

    I really don't trust BOT, I much prefer the eskadron liners with acrylic bandages on top.
    Yes - I've only ever used it to hold a wound dressing in place, perhaps pack a hoof overnight and hold in place. But wondered why so much of it is out there in displays now. Thought are horses getting more superficial injuries?!? Or is it just the pretty colors...

    Found bandages to order online, and while talking to the rep, she said she used Vetwrap to wrap legs. The 2nd person (both selling horse supplies) in 2 days to say that. Scary.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  7. #47
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    It's the pretty colors


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  8. #48
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    The 2nd person (both selling horse supplies) in 2 days to say that. Scary.
    ~

    Oh yes, Scary is the right word!

    As for why its all over the place, I think people are getting extremely overprotective of their horses. A small wound that in the past people would just wash up and leave it be, nowadays if you don't clean it with a super special chemical and add a very expensive ointment on top, and then cover it up and wrap it with vetrap, you are being negligent and your horse will die! LOL


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  9. #49
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    You CAN use vet wrap to hold a wrap lightly in a pinch. And the horse won't die. The other option is not to wrap ....lots of ways to do things. I've got the old fashioned blanket pins and I absolutely love them and it turns out I use them for all sorts of things - when OP mentioned the flannels I thought about those pins but not a lot of people keep them on hand. They're cheap and super handy to have on hand too.



  10. #50
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    Hundredacres, how do you wrap a horse with blanket pins? Never seen it done and would love to learn!



  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCMSL View Post
    Hundredacres, how do you wrap a horse with blanket pins? Never seen it done and would love to learn!
    I was just thinking they would work in a bind when OP mentioned the flannels. My step dad told me when he was a kid/groom at the track they used blanket pins on leg wraps, but I never have since the invention of Velcro has made it so much easier and safer. I was just trying to brainstorm .



  12. #52
    CVPeg is online now Grand Prix Premium Member
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    I remember blanket pins! (OK, so now you know I started riding pre-Velcro. LOL)

    I've just left him bare legged for now, but hosing him daily.

    So much for my brief thought that things might iron out at least for the short term. Today my guy having a fit in his stall. Had a little hay left. Stall a total mess, had barely been any bedding used and he's not usually a slob. Must have been pacing quite a bit. Very slight swelling (now will be waiting at the mailbox for those bandages) but hosed him down and gave him a good walk.

    Temp boarders/people losing their farm showed up and were lookin' to ride just as I was shoveling out the stall before leaving. Asked if they could wait just a few minutes while I did the finishing touches - the stalls, feed/supply room, etc. are all across the back of the indoor so it would be kind of tough weaving in and out of them. Mentioned if they were going to ride, the mini should be taken from the indoor and put in a stall. They did that, then drove away. Finished the stall, grabbed some shavings, then the mounting block to load up his nibble net. I was half way up the mounting block when the far gate to the indoor opened and they turned their two horses loose in the indoor, who both barreled down right where my guy was stalled. Squealing, carrying on, I'm getting knocked off the step. Had to ask them if they could just grab their horses (if they were about to ride, why did they turn them loose?!?) so I could safely fill the net. Took them several minutes to round them up, the whole time my guy is having a fit - he'd been confined all day, and now had two unfamiliar loose horses running around outside his stall.

    We get squared away just as the BO is pulling in. She's all animated with her new subjects and chatting - while they are wrastlin' their steeds in their respective stalls - none of them holding still for a minute while being saddled and bridled. I go over to the barn owner and mention she had two bags of shavings opened - any difference between the two? because I had used part of one. She asks why I needed to use shavings?!? Then proceeds to tell me how horribly my horse behaved this morning when she brought him in from his old little paddock. How she had to use a different lead on him because he's so bad. Then how he wouldn't go into the stall. Well, because he knows you're going to leave him in there all day now... Said how she tied him to the side of the indoor and just ignored him to teach him a thing or two. Oh, and because she knows he just wanted attention, and she wasn't about to give him any. (This is Ms "I"ve learned that you just need to handle horses with a calm voice/ and I'm a yoga instructor") How he was acting as our trainer had said when she called him an AH (last year first day at his first clinic, also after having to stay overnight in a stall because that's what BO wanted - clinic is 7 miles from the barn) So now my horse is an AH. The one who was fine all year while he was on full pasture. And who's pretty darn perceptive of the people handling him...

    Gone for 8 hours today at the barn and then driving the countryside looking at options. The one good, although very sad thing is that in my travels, I learned that a good friend's husband had just passed away. I had listed and sold her farm twice, they had moved and hadn't heard from her in awhile. His death much quicker than expected. And if I wasn't in this predicament, I wouldn't have been stopping at farms, and learned so quickly. So I see that as a positive. Am hoping to see her soon and lend a hand. Sometimes tough issues make opportunities.

    Back on the road tomorrow. Of course no work is getting done. Heck with my new business! Who needs to make money?!?

    But once he's squared away, it will be worth all the effort.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  13. #53
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    When I boarded at the knee-deep mud place, even though the horses were "turned out" all day I'd put them in the indoor so they could actually MOVE a little bit several times a week. In turnout all they would do was stand rock still.

    But, yeah. Time to go.
    Click here before you buy.


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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by CVPeg View Post

    she said she used Vetwrap to wrap legs. The 2nd person (both selling horse supplies) in 2 days to say that. Scary.
    It can be done. As long as you dont pull too tight, no big deal. Good grief. My horse has come home from the vet school numerous times wrapped standing wraps with vet wrap and instructed to leave on overnight. If the vet school does it, its got to be safe (assuming you do it correctly)

    I also wanted to post yesterday when you had decided things were going to be ok at the place for awhile....you made the decision to move already so dont look back! If you go back and forth and stay there longer, something really bad will probably happen. Sooner the better! I


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  15. #55
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    I've been bandaging horses with Vetrap or the equivalent for years.
    Don't think I've crippled one yet.
    Wouldn't be my go-to for a stable wrap, but certainly wouldn't be skeered of it, provided the person wrapping knows how to apply a bandage.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


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  16. #56
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    I'm worried it's cellulitis...has he ever had a flare up before?

    And I agree...don't look back now! Keeping fingers crossed something perfect pops up.



  17. #57
    CVPeg is online now Grand Prix Premium Member
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    He has arthritis in that ankle from racing, but nothing to stop him except perhaps needing some warm up in the winter. So it's always been slightly larger than the right. The change last week was really something the untrained eye wouldn't even see, and involved that back tendon area - but if you know your horse...

    He was ouchy, so had to ease my mind. Now out of the mud, he's much happier, moving very freely again in hand. But still holding off riding for the vet.

    He's a smart horse who won't normally run in adverse conditions like ice or mud (unless it contains 2 dumb fillies). At his last nightmare barn, he'd stand stock still in the mud afraid to move. The choice now is run in mud, or get upset in stall. Only can wander in his little turn out at night as another 3 of hers now stand around in it during the day.

    I'd say the filling comes under those kinds of stressful conditions - the mud, or stall walking, with the first being the worse.
    Add to that the angst this horse goes through changing barns.

    Speaking of which, time to run and take care of the "poor spoiled" horse.

    Heading out for more barn searching with a long trip tomorrow. I'm overtired from the extra stress, and trying to talk myself down from blasting her next time I see her. Her calling my horse an AH, and saying how spoiled he was really has me pi**ed off after what she's pulled.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  18. #58
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    Are you folks talking about blanket pins or bandage pins?
    The former is usually pretty hefty; I can't imagine bandaging a leg with them.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  19. #59
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    Well, I always though they were just small blanket pins and big blanket pins - so in my head I was imagining the small (bandage) pins. Sorry for that! But I do have a weird obsession with them, all sizes.



  20. #60
    CVPeg is online now Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Well, we've come up with a solution - have found another place. Reallllly long drive for me, but have decided it's time to be serious with this horse. Not that I wasn't before, but when your location forces you to keep doing the backyard or half-a**ed training barn thing, and it's a green horse, it's hard to move forward and decide whether or not he can become something.

    The new place comes highly recommended to me from personal friends - super barn manager/trainer was a groom for several years for one of the best. Dressage and H/J training. I'm getting a training package which covers lessons and/or rides by the trainer. So if I can't get there due to the distance/work, at least he'll be ridden.

    I will miss the visiting trainer at this old place, but she travels a lot. And she has mainly eventing people. As an old school H/J rider, eventing has been looking mighty inviting. But need to get this guy moving forward first.

    I'm scared to death to be putting the extra $$$ into him, but it doesn't have to be forever. Will reach my goal of getting him a job sooner than later.

    Great turnouts, super provisions, and willingness to adapt to a horse's needs. And they have really, really nice people. Happy people and happy horses! Pinch me!

    And I'll be able to sleep at night!!

    Have to admit, it is a bit sad, as my current BO has once again returned to being very pleasant - we've had some nice days the past few. But it's time to go.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes


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