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  1. #21
    CVPeg is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by alibi_18 View Post
    Next winter, if you get snow where you are/if you are still there, tell her to bring and spread snow in the arena! That is the best and cheapest solution so far for dusty indoor arena during winter time! or to put magnesium chloride or even calcium to get the ice to melt.

    As for the muddy paddock....well, it isn't good at all. Step up for your horse.
    She did follow that advice, but then didn't stop! LOL (We get tons here...)

    Then a few times they decided that they needed to park their cars in the indoor, so they wouldn't have to clean the snow off - even though it's a hike from the house. That was different, but again, never said anything. Hey, my guy was at Belmont for four years - he didn't bat an eye at having to work around vehicles...

    Today he has a nice chunk missing between the eyes from one of the mares, and they are both flagging, and squealing is going on. Told BO I'm sorry, but that I can't leave him in that paddock due to his feet. (let alone the rest). And have started to look.

    Great lesson w/ visiting trainer - 1st since the fall, and it's breaking my heart as it may be the last. She's top notch, but also won't get in the middle of barn drama - has much bigger clients elsewhere, a hectic schedule - can't blame her.

    On the road now looking for the next place...
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  2. #22
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    Is the mud LITERALLY knee deep? All over the paddock? I find this hard to believe. We have had an incredible amount of rain where I live, and our pastures are all what I would describe as filthy mud pits. Nevertheless, they are absolutely not "knee deep" and I have never seen a pasture that is. Wouldn't that essentially make it a lake?



  3. #23
    CVPeg is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Not knee deep today, since it's dried out. And no, not right up to the knee caps. It was half way up the cannons. Today, it's only over the pasterns. Would that still be ok? And this is the worst pasture there, I'm the only paid boarder. Not like it will be gone after this week. If this is where he's relegated, he can't stay. She can have it all now.

    Mud, mud, mud is fine for lots of horses to work around - and some even can thrive I guess. Am amazed going through mud pits in the hunt fields on a good hunter. Not for this guy who has iffy feet, and whose shoes will be off in no time. Let alone all the other stuff listed above. And whatever other agenda the BO has.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  4. #24
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    One of the places where I used to board, a property situated on clay, would very definitely have knee-deep mud, yes, all the way to the carpus, for a few weeks spring and fall. It was GOD AWFUL. I lost many a muck boot in that stuff, and the horses HATED going outside only to stand around because walking was so difficult. The whole paddocks weren't like that, but certainly the areas with lots of traffic were (gates, hay feeders, waterer) and it was an absolutely brutal job to try and keep up with it via drainage ditches, etc.

    The type of soil has a lot to do with how much mud can form, and IME clay is THE WORST.
    Click here before you buy.


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  5. #25
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    I wish I had a picture (well actually I'd be ashamed to show it) of exactly what kind of clay/topsoil/manure/urine soup can be made by a lot of traffic in a small area. Yes, you suck off your own muck boots and the horses can get to about mid cannon deep. Plus anything that falls in, such as a leather halter, vanishes forever. And it gets pretty stinky.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
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  6. #26
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    Ask the visiting trainer that you like to recommend some places for you. If worse came to worst for a few months anyway, skip the lessons if you need to economize, and just pay that person to be the 'care custody and control' person taking care of your horse at her home base barn, if that barn is far enough away that it would be hard for you to get out there often.
    Jeanie
    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.


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  7. #27
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    I don't think I'd be comfortable entrusting my horses to somebody with such an obvious lack of experience and such poor judgement regardless of the condition of the arena.


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  8. #28
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    Well... it's her barn. And honestly, it doesn't sound like she is so much a boarding barn operator. You are the ONE person she has taken in. Doesn't sound like she needs you, or wants to be bothered with adjusting her routines to you. In the end, you can only request, and walk away if she won't accommodate.



  9. #29
    CVPeg is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Response to a few things, and then I'll tell you about today...sorry about the length. Too beat to edit after quite a day, including the latest in Boston...

    I just had this soil conversation last week with my brother-in-law. I am out in the middle of a lot of farm country, but until last year, hadn't really checked out this area where my guy is boarded. Truly lovely, and well kept farms, but vast acreages (a lot of hay production - much goes to the NY tracks). Asked BIL why there aren't more houses built, and farms there. Answer: clay. You were right, deltawave. No wonder my guy has looked so miserable standing in that stuff. His other, smaller paddock had proper drainage, so he was only in mud over his hooves during the worst weather, nothing higher.

    I'd share pictures, but only know how to post with FB, and don't wish to really post them in deference to the BO.

    And because I'm in the middle of nowhere, is also why it's been so hard finding anything that is acceptable. Boarding barn I was at last year had much worse care. Never noticed any of their 30+ animals' injuries unless they were limping with exaggeration. I was there one morning when the farrier pulled a just-returned-to-the-barn-from-pasture gelding whose leg was swollen up twice the size, and no one had noticed. Add to that the BO has some kind of psych issue - you never knew if it was a good, or very, very bad day. I could normally care less, but it was no fun often being a source of her wrath.

    So I had a great lesson on Wednesday, and dug in yesterday looking into options, so did not go to the barn. Had told BO I'll take the option to put him back into his old paddock part-time and in a stall the rest and that we'd move him today. I didn't want him in a stall an entire day when I couldn't be there, to start.

    Have made lots of calls/e-mails/checked CL ads, etc. First person I asked was visiting trainer. But she is routinely out of state or downstate, and had just one or two ideas which did not pan out. But as I made calls, it at least buoyed my spirits to hear others with the same priorities. It's just that most of them will be a hike. The best choice locally unfortunately is full, but will have an opening in August. Heard from some vets about other locations. Will be driving by a couple tomorrow. But what I'm seriously considering is a very nice place over an hour away in a horse-centric part of NYS. This barn has been recommended to me by two different people - one being a very close BO friend. The care is reportedly top notch. And, my purpose has always been to see what I can do with him. With no trainer around, and ours gone half the year, he's been on hold for too long. Maybe just as well to pay the extra board for the time being and see what a few months of real work will result in. I won't be able to ride him as easily, but this trainer can work him when I'm not there. The idea of spending so much a month is daunting, especially when things are tight, but perhaps well worth it for the interim.

    So this morning I get an e-mail that the vet was here this morning to give a booster shot. I get there later in the afternoon. The mud is now mostly dry, but much of the paddock has solidified in deep hoof-print ridges. At least a wide swath along the fence line has been packed down. Go to bring my guy in, and he has both mares right with him, one on either side. I get him free, and he is hardly moving forward. Take a quick look at his legs, and nothing out of the ordinary apparent. I think, well, he was just trimmed Sunday, his feet were bruised from the winter ice, and he can be very careful with any ouches.

    Get him into his stall (did I mention he has had a triangular wound between his eyes since Tuesday?) and feel his legs. Not easy to notice, but his left front does feel filled behind the cannon bone - uniformly down the tendon area, and is slightly warmer. In comparison, definitely not as tight as the right. Decide not to ride him, just give him a good grooming, check his feet, etc. and hose the leg. Told the BO I would be doing that. On my way back to the paddock, she stops and asks how I know, and I explain to her about just feeling the legs and comparing them to each other, and to what you know about your horse. She remarks how my guy was chasing one of the fillies around all afternoon. Always makes it sound like aren't they having fun. I want to say, well, she's been flagging like she has since you put them all in together, he's always been interested in the girls, and there's no hay again...(3rd time this week I've been there when they're standing around out of hay - and they're supposed to get unlimited? )

    You can tell she is concerned, and probably feeling defensive. So I feel bad again complaining right now, but if she wasn't so stubborn about the decisions she makes, not seeking advice, and generally having the "what is fine in nature" attitude, I wouldn't be upset.

    And frankly, I'm not up on what could be wrong with him. He wasn't obviously lame on just that limb, more like having sore feet - I'll be riding him tomorrow to see if he is lame. The indoor has good soft footing and I can get him going. Couldn't get him to move past a walk in hand, but he's often like that to begin with. And wasn't about to readily jog over the rock (not crushed gravel! ) laden paths there as well. Didn't flinch in reaction to any pressure. Maybe it was even the booster.

    Plan on hosing his leg a couple of times tomorrow and Sunday if needed. Will call the vet for advice if it still appears filled and/or if he's really off. At least now he won't be going back into that paddock. Crossing my fingers he's not going to go ape being stalled during the day. She's going to let me keep his buddy the mini inside, too. Thanks for listening.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes


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  10. #30
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    Empathy coming your way, and urgent advice to move him immediately, before worse things happen. I would not ride him, if this were my horse. The running around in mud and the swelling would make me suspect suspensory strain. If you can put him in a stall until the Vet sees him, that would be a wise move. Good luck and keep us posted.
    Jeanie
    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.


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  11. #31
    CVPeg is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdlbredfan View Post
    Empathy coming your way, and urgent advice to move him immediately, before worse things happen. I would not ride him, if this were my horse. The running around in mud and the swelling would make me suspect suspensory strain. If you can put him in a stall until the Vet sees him, that would be a wise move. Good luck and keep us posted.
    Thanks - after finishing my entry, I started googling/searching COTH to see what this could be, and started to find discussions suggesting this. Fortunately he is now most definitely out of that paddock, but will be having a fit staying in a stall during the day. His old paddock is too small to run around in really, and he's usually fairly quiet in it.

    I'm almost thinking this appears so insignificant that I'm not sure it really is anything. But am going to be very conservative, and call the vet in the a.m. Problem is, again, we're in the boonies - local vet is large animal, but not equine specialist. Lameness specialist a bit of a distance and may not be able to get out here until later next week, I'm guessing.

    Thought I'd ride just long enough to get a trot step or two. Think I shouldn't even attempt that?

    And normally I'd be really upset at the prospect, especially as we're just getting started back to good weather, but this has been such a stressful week I'm almost accepting of the possibility. Only thing is, if the best barns are a drive, do I make the permanent move there? I am on the road, and can't always be at the barn daily anyway, so maybe it would be best. Thoughts? And thoughts about what to do for him for the next several days.

    And he's barefoot right now. Was over the winter, just trimmed a few days ago. Was about to be shod when farrier can get to us. Can/should he still be shod?
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  12. #32
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    I would not ride him, especially since it may be soft tissue. I would groom, have someone jog him in a straight line to check fir lameness if he's not hobbling, cold hose and put him away.

    Also, side note, it's horribly muddy *almost* anywhere that is turning out. This time if year sucks. I'm in hell right now between juggling mud and trying to get the crew out.
    Come to the dark side, we have cookies


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  13. #33
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    Cold hose and stall rest would be my "first step" plan for a horse with a swollen leg after romping around in the mud. Maybe light bandages for a day or two, maybe some aspirin or bute to check inflammation. I would be very curious to know how sore he was or was not, but not to the point where I'd ride him to see. I might jog him in the barn aisle or on some firm footing just to get an idea if I need the vet NOW or if it can wait a bit.

    My deepest sympathies on the mud--my place is on sand so we're OK, but this morning it is frozen solid! At the barn where I keep 2 of mine they are having to rotate turnout to every other day to save the pastures. It's a normal springtime rite of passage, but this year since we've yet to have any actual warm weather it seems to be lasting FOREVER.
    Click here before you buy.


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  14. #34
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    This also screams suspensory to me. Cold hose him, or if you can, ice him and keep him in.

    When my horse injured her suspensory last June, she had a swelling the size of a quarter. Vet thought best to do an ultrasound and there it was, a very small tare, but a tare nonetheless.

    She prescribed stall rest for 10 days with handwalking from the 5th day onwards. Lots of ice and we also did laser therapy to speed things up.


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  15. #35
    CVPeg is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Well, I'm already apprehensive about the stall rest considering he does get ornery being kept in. But at least today's the day the BO has begun relegating him to a stall, so it's perfect timing anyway. Although he's smart enough when he's hurting to usually take it somewhat easy. But I'm guessing there will be some carrying on.

    Suggest anything to keep him quiet while kept in? I have a call into the nearby large animal vet (my usual is not on call...) and can get to their practice this morning to pick up meds when I go up to hose and/or apply ice to him. Another call into the far away lameness vet just to chat.

    It's always tough jogging him. Will have to load my back pocket with carrots or something... Not taking this lightly, just need humor sometimes...
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  16. #36
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    Magnesium and hay in a hay net = calming factors. If you are able to get to a Tractor Supply store, or any other tack store that has supplements, you probably can find magnesium pretty easily. TSC carries Remission, that is a high magnesium content supp, or you could just visit your local feed co-op and see if they would sell you a smaller than 50lb supply of magnesium oxide (because a little goes a long way...you probably will not want a whole bag of it). If you decide to continue feeding magnesium, SmartPak has great variety including Quiessence and many other calming supplements in pellet form..
    Jeanie
    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.



  17. #37
    CVPeg is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdlbredfan View Post
    Magnesium and hay in a hay net = calming factors. If you are able to get to a Tractor Supply store, or any other tack store that has supplements, you probably can find magnesium pretty easily. TSC carries Remission, that is a high magnesium content supp, or you could just visit your local feed co-op and see if they would sell you a smaller than 50lb supply of magnesium oxide (because a little goes a long way...you probably will not want a whole bag of it). If you decide to continue feeding magnesium, SmartPak has great variety including Quiessence and many other calming supplements in pellet form..
    Bless you for that! Perfect timing. I can go to another town, and run to Tractor Supply for the magnesium, before heading to the barn. When I left last night, had already stuffed the Nibble Net I bought for him in anticipation of his being returned to the stall this morning - as opposed to being given a flake or two. And will cram it full again when I leave.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes


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  18. #38
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    Magnesium is NOT a "calming factor". It is a humble mineral. IF your horse is severely deficient it MAY show behavior that MIGHT get better with repletion. Beyond that it is nothing other than . . . magnesium. Don't waste your money.

    Remove grain completely, give him lots of hay, and see how he handles things first.
    Click here before you buy.


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  19. #39
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    Magnesium is NOT a "calming factor". It is a humble mineral. IF your horse is severely deficient it MAY show behavior that MIGHT get better with repletion. Beyond that it is nothing other than . . . magnesium. Don't waste your money.

    Remove grain completely, give him lots of hay, and see how he handles things first.
    Click here before you buy.


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  20. #40
    CVPeg is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    Magnesium is NOT a "calming factor". It is a humble mineral. IF your horse is severely deficient it MAY show behavior that MIGHT get better with repletion. Beyond that it is nothing other than . . . magnesium. Don't waste your money.

    Remove grain completely, give him lots of hay, and see how he handles things first.
    Just had a return call from the local vet. Still have to go to TSC for other things, and will be looking at perhaps a light liniment, and maybe some natural calming something-or-other just to have on hand. If I don't open it, I'll return it. But she agrees let's see how he does for now, hose/ice/wrap (funny - it sounded foreign that she was talking to someone who knows how to wrap...again life in the boonies...),keep him in the stall w/ lots of hay or his little pasture which should be best at night - which is the plan in the first place. Thanks again.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  21. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    Magnesium is NOT a "calming factor". It is a humble mineral. IF your horse is severely deficient it MAY show behavior that MIGHT get better with repletion. Beyond that it is nothing other than . . . magnesium. Don't waste your money.

    Remove grain completely, give him lots of hay, and see how he handles things first.
    Even though you appear to have a prejudice against using this 'humble mineral', I and many other people have found it to be beneficial. It will not do any harm, and has the potential to do some good.
    http://www.equinews.com/article/impo...um-horse-diets
    which includes this statement "Magnesium is found in calming supplements because of its role in both nerve excitability and muscle contraction, and the suspicion that nervousness may be caused by suboptimal levels of magnesium in the diet."
    also see
    http://www.europe.trainermagazine.co...luence-cms-315 and reflect upon their observation "Equine scientists need to evaluate the effect of magnesium supplementation further especially as there is some interesting research in other species. In mice, for example, it is suggested that magnesium may have anxiolytic (anxiety reducing) and anti-depressive effects when fed at a comparable level per kilogram of bodyweight to that found in some equine supplements. Additionally in humans, magnesium shows a beneficial effect when supplemented in combination with vitamin B6 (pyrodoxine) in women with pre-menstrual syndrome. Tryptophan is another frequent ingredient in equine calming supplements and is an essential amino acid involved in the synthesis of the neurotransmitter serotonin. Serotonin is involved in the mechanism sedation and also inhibits aggression, fear, and stress in some species."

    Just because magnesium may not have been 'proven' does not mean it is worthless!
    Last edited by sdlbredfan; Apr. 20, 2013 at 12:52 PM. Reason: add URLS and clarity
    Jeanie
    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.



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