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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 23, 2004
    Location
    Sisters, Oregon
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    1,903

    Default Grain.... definitions

    So, what do you mean when you say you feed your horse grain?

    I feed these pellets, http://www.haystackfarmandfeeds.com/...blend-pellets/ and vitamins.

    For the horses in hard work I add beet pulp (soaked), rice bran pellets and alfalfa pellets (soaked).

    For the pasture horses I feed 1 cup of the pellets and their vitamins,just to get their vitamins in the. A couple also get a cup or two of dry COB.

    Where I live there is nothing defined as Ration Balancer. I'm still not sure what that is!

    What is your regime and what do you define as "grain"?
    I'm just asking because my husband is old school and anything besides hay he defines as grain.
    Kanoe Godby
    www.dyrkgodby.com
    See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2004
    Location
    Guanajuato, GTO, Mexico
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    2,500

    Default

    This makes me crazy. Precise language cures a lot of ills. Seems a lot of people define grain as 'something you put in a bucket'. This is the dictionary definition, and it works for me.

    Definition of GRAIN

    1
    a (1) obsolete : a single small hard seed (2) : a seed or fruit of a cereal grass : caryopsis
    b : the seeds or fruits of various food plants including the cereal grasses and in commercial and statutory usage other plants (as the soybean)
    c : plants producing grain


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    35,688

    Default

    Grain is corn, oats, barley.

    "Grain" is hard feed.

    Without clarifying what one means, it makes a conversation of "I want to go grain-free for my horse" very difficult.

    I feed a ration balancer to my 2yo, and a v/m product to the others, using beet pulp as a carrier since I also add a few supplement (need to add copper, zinc, and selenium, as well as Tri-Amino). I keep alfalfa pellets around usually since sometimes the older guy can get a bit picky about the beep and adding 1/4c alf pellets gets him eating all his stuff.

    The last time I fed a real "grain" product, TC Growth, was when my mare was pregnant and nursing, and I had to get many calories in a lower volume into her.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
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    Northeast
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    10,341

    Default

    And don't forget , depending on where you live, rice,wheat,beans and peas.

    Since I know I'm going to be challenged on this- I will reference "Animal Management -1933"-Courtesy of Her Majesty's Stationary Office. Those Army people learned to feed those grains and a lot of other interesting grains.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 23, 2004
    Location
    Sisters, Oregon
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    1,903

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Katy Watts View Post
    This makes me crazy. Precise language cures a lot of ills. Seems a lot of people define grain as 'something you put in a bucket'. This is the dictionary definition, and it works for me.

    Definition of GRAIN

    1
    a (1) obsolete : a single small hard seed (2) : a seed or fruit of a cereal grass : caryopsis
    b : the seeds or fruits of various food plants including the cereal grasses and in commercial and statutory usage other plants (as the soybean)
    c : plants producing grain
    Thank you!

    So...define "Hard Feed". Is that what you call "grain"?

    Define "Ration Balancer". Does it say that on the bag? Is it fortified pellets?

    I don't like to feed fortified pellets or "complete feed". I think in order for the horses to receive all of the vitamins and minerals you assume they are getting from it I would have to feed WAY more than my horses need.

    I rather feed the unfortified pellets and give the vitamins.
    Kanoe Godby
    www.dyrkgodby.com
    See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2001
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    Center of the Universe
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    6,901

    Default

    some people use the term "concentrates" to describe the various pelleted feeds, many of which do not contain any grain.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2002
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
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    4,977

    Default

    Well, both SO and I know what "grain" is as we both work in agricultural economics (so grain does refer to a pretty specific group of plant products, as others have talked about). But when I'm feeding and I go to feed "grain" that is pretty much whatever mix of soaked hay pellets, beet pulp, supplements, or meds that is dumped in the feed bucket, or in other words, like your DH, anything but hay. That's just an easier way to refer to those little buckets of mush than reading off what is really in there!

    I don't feed any of the complete feed or fortified pellets as my horses are in light work and don't need it, and I agree that most are designed so that you have to feed a large quantity to get the full benefit. One product available in the Northwest that I have used in the past is LMF Super Supplement, which is for easy keepers and designed to be fed at a rate of 1 lb/1,000 lb of horse, so a reasonable amount. I just use Horse Guard pellets for my vit/min supplement now and have some other things I add in as needed (like additional vitamin E especially in winter).



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    35,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CDE Driver View Post
    Thank you!

    So...define "Hard Feed". Is that what you call "grain"?
    "hard feed" to me is anything beyond forage. Hay pellets/cubes is sort of a grain area, as it's "concentrated forage", but it's still forage, it's something you (usually) bring them in to eat, etc.

    Define "Ration Balancer".
    High nutrition in a small serving. Typically, 1lb is fed to most adult horses, and gives the same nutrition as somewhere between 4-6lb of a typical fortified "grain" product

    Does it say that on the bag?
    Some do, some say "diet balancer", some don't say anything, you just figure out that's what it is by the protein content and feeding amounts

    Is it fortified pellets?
    Yes, all the ones I know of are in pellet form, and yes, they are fortified. But it's a much smaller serving size than the typical fortified product.

    I don't like to feed fortified pellets or "complete feed". I think in order for the horses to receive all of the vitamins and minerals you assume they are getting from it I would have to feed WAY more than my horses need.
    That's something that has to be applied to the individual horse. If you're feeding a v/m supplement, but then adding 5lb of some combination of alf pellets, beet pulp, rice bran, etc, then you could easily be feeding 5lb of a regular fortified feed and meet calorie and nutritional requirements.

    Feeds have a range of how to feed, like .5-1lb/100lb, which would be 5-10lb for a 1000lb horse. You could feed at little as 5lb, or as much as 10lb, and be ok on the nutrition. If you can only feed 3lb because he's fat on 5, then yes, you're skimping on the designed nutrition and should switch to either a Lite feed or a ration balancer.

    I rather feed the unfortified pellets and give the vitamins.
    As above, if you end up feeding, say, 10,000 calories with the vitamins, then you would be better off economically with a regular commercial product. Neither is wrong, it's just different ways of doing it.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2003
    Location
    MI USA
    Posts
    7,234

    Default

    I would agree with harvested seed products, corn, oats, soybeans, barley, millet, etc., as being grains. Where you live can define what horses eat, because that is all that might have been available, like beans instead of oats. Whether you feed these seeds whole, cracked or rolled, smashed and reformed into pellets, they are still "Grains". Smashed and mixed with other foodstuffs, they are then Feed, which is "fed" to horses.

    I try to talk specifically, because what horses eat IS CONFUSING to folks that have not studied it, kids learning about horses.

    4-H talks about "feeds" which are combined products, like the complete feeds sold so many places. 4-H doesn't refer to them as "grains" though grain items can be part of the combination in those feeds. These combinations can be whole grains or formed into pellets that are several products, for easier digestion by the horse.

    Beet pulp and Alfalfa pellets or cubes, hay cubes, are all Forage products, not any kind of grain. These forage products can be fed in combination with other feeds or grain products, or fed as forage alone to the equine.

    Then adding in Vitamins, Minerals, various things considered essential for your area or feeding program, all fall into a class by themselves, Supplements.

    I would consider any grain, feed product made of grain, to be a "hard feed" that gives equines more calories per serving than a forage product does. Hard Feed in the diet allows a horse to work hard, but not need to graze as much to meet their caloric needs from forage products. Forage is again the beet pulp, hay of any kind, grazing, pellets made from hay, hay cubes.

    In the past, horses in hard work, Cavalry horses on the move, work horses moving loads, farm horses doing daily farm jobs, were fed the "hard feed" of grain products to keep up their energy and ability to keep working on little or no grazing time. These days with so much available for horses, "hard feed" needs to include the combination feeds as well as grain products.

    We do actually still feed grain, in a mix to the horses. I have the oats, cracked corn, soybean meal, NO MOLASSES, mixed at a local Elevator. I don't usually buy any commercial feed mixes. Our horses always look nice and are able to do their work. For an elderly horse, sick horse, I might get some commercial feed that will help their specific problem. Otherwise the "real" grain diet has worked very well for us, with the addition of Selenium and Vit E, and Vitamins on top. We have no Selenium in our soil, so that is a local requirement for horses in hard work. We have found the cost of buying grain mix to be a good savings over commercial mixed feeds, with better control of what is in that mix. Even working hard, our horses just don't need big amounts of grain to stay in shape to perform. This is work beyond a daily one-hour riding session, getting mileage to be fit, usually sweated when we finally return home.

    Folks using words/terms incorrectly, using the same word for several meanings, having local word name for terms, sure does add to the confusion.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    May. 14, 2009
    Posts
    622

    Default

    I guess my people & I are on the slower side.

    I feed grains- whole/cripmed oats, barley [I cook it] cracked corn, alfalfa & beet pulp, no commercially prepared mixes.

    When discussing & even written on feed board I use the exact word for each.

    Going so far as to say "going to the feed mill", not "going to buy grain".



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2005
    Posts
    2,607

    Default

    I find "grain" to be synonymous with "concentrates" regardless of what actual grain products may be in it. i.e. anything that's no forage.



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